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Al Horford

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BoogieTime
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#41 » by BoogieTime » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:59 pm

codydaze wrote:I'm going to play the connect the dots game.

There were no leaks from the Kings on draft night. The only picks that were not tweeted about by Woj or Shams were each one of our picks. There was nothing from them on the 40 pick, nothing on the 55 pick and nothing on the 60 pick. The 47 pick was tweeted by Shams but was reported as the Knicks pick and that they received it from Sacramento so presumably that info came from NY, not us.

Every other team had leaks of their picks and trades with the exception of the Toronto Raptors at pick 59.

Then there's this tweet today:

Read on Twitter


So assuming our FO is air tight as far as leaks go, maybe this points to us being the one getting ready to offer that to Al? I feel like this going through all this information:

Image


It’s true there haven’t been many. But I’m also semi-sure that this is some form of tampering, so whoever it is better keep it under wraps (and even then it still is hairy)
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#42 » by becorz » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:09 pm

BoogieTime wrote:It’s true there haven’t been many. But I’m also semi-sure that this is some form of tampering, so whoever it is better keep it under wraps (and even then it still is hairy)

You are correct, it would be tampering. But it seems that everyone in the NBA is doing it. You talk to one of your guys, who then talks to the agent of Horford, who then talks to Horford and then....you know, everyone kind of knows what is going on. How do you think people are coming to agreements on contracts like 20 minutes after free agency starts?

If you believe Bill Simmons (and if I am right that it was Bill Simmons...) people used to make fun of Mitch Kupchack because he would legit be talking to a free agents at 12:01am on free agency day, while everyone else had kind of already let people know where they planned on going.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#43 » by codydaze » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:20 pm

becorz wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:It’s true there haven’t been many. But I’m also semi-sure that this is some form of tampering, so whoever it is better keep it under wraps (and even then it still is hairy)

You are correct, it would be tampering. But it seems that everyone in the NBA is doing it. You talk to one of your guys, who then talks to the agent of Horford, who then talks to Horford and then....you know, everyone kind of knows what is going on. How do you think people are coming to agreements on contracts like 20 minutes after free agency starts?

If you believe Bill Simmons (and if I am right that it was Bill Simmons...) people used to make fun of Mitch Kupchack because he would legit be talking to a free agents at 12:01am on free agency day, while everyone else had kind of already let people know where they planned on going.


Yeah I don’t think the league looks into it too much unless it’s made public. You see deals getting signed 30 minutes into free agency and there’s no way that happens unless there’s conversations happening beforehand.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#44 » by City of Trees » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:54 am

codydaze wrote:I'm going to play the connect the dots game.

There were no leaks from the Kings on draft night. The only picks that were not tweeted about by Woj or Shams were each one of our picks. There was nothing from them on the 40 pick, nothing on the 55 pick and nothing on the 60 pick. The 47 pick was tweeted by Shams but was reported as the Knicks pick and that they received it from Sacramento so presumably that info came from NY, not us.

Every other team had leaks of their picks and trades with the exception of the Toronto Raptors at pick 59.

Then there's this tweet today:

Read on Twitter


So assuming our FO is air tight as far as leaks go, maybe this points to us being the one getting ready to offer that to Al? I feel like this going through all this information:

Image
I want to play: there are only two national reporters who are in tune with Sacramento

1. Sam Amick
2. Mark Stein
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#45 » by OGSactownballer » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:29 am

City of Trees wrote:
codydaze wrote:I'm going to play the connect the dots game.

There were no leaks from the Kings on draft night. The only picks that were not tweeted about by Woj or Shams were each one of our picks. There was nothing from them on the 40 pick, nothing on the 55 pick and nothing on the 60 pick. The 47 pick was tweeted by Shams but was reported as the Knicks pick and that they received it from Sacramento so presumably that info came from NY, not us.

Every other team had leaks of their picks and trades with the exception of the Toronto Raptors at pick 59.

Then there's this tweet today:

Read on Twitter


So assuming our FO is air tight as far as leaks go, maybe this points to us being the one getting ready to offer that to Al? I feel like this going through all this information:

Image
I want to play: there are only two national reporters who are in tune with Sacramento

1. Sam Amick
2. Mark Stein


This.

Both come from here. Still have local connections and also still regularly have sessions on local radio/TV. I trust what either of them say when it comes to anything related to Sac.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#46 » by BoogieTime » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:57 am

Well, it’s still questionable if the deal exists, or if he’s already given a gentleman’s agreement to it, but if it does, I would suspect it would be from Kings

Mavs - Mavs insider/Stein deny, fit issue

There are only so many teams with that space, as of now. Widdle it down to teams with center need, who aren’t rebuilding, and who aren’t a choice FA destination (who would have bigger priorities than splurging a 4th year on Al)

I’m struggling to see who else..
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#47 » by enderwilson » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:18 pm

BoogieTime wrote:Well, it’s still questionable if the deal exists, or if he’s already given a gentleman’s agreement to it, but if it does, I would suspect it would be from Kings

Mavs - Mavs insider/Stein deny, fit issue

There are only so many teams with that space, as of now. Widdle it down to teams with center need, who aren’t rebuilding, and who aren’t a choice FA destination (who would have bigger priorities than splurging a 4th year on Al)

I’m struggling to see who else..


Right. I read that Marc Stein tweet as purely speculative about what the NBA market will look like for Horford, not necessarily stating that any overtures have been made towards him by any specific team.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#48 » by OGSactownballer » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:05 pm

enderwilson wrote:
BoogieTime wrote:Well, it’s still questionable if the deal exists, or if he’s already given a gentleman’s agreement to it, but if it does, I would suspect it would be from Kings

Mavs - Mavs insider/Stein deny, fit issue

There are only so many teams with that space, as of now. Widdle it down to teams with center need, who aren’t rebuilding, and who aren’t a choice FA destination (who would have bigger priorities than splurging a 4th year on Al)

I’m struggling to see who else..


Right. I read that Marc Stein tweet as purely speculative about what the NBA market will look like for Horford, not necessarily stating that any overtures have been made towards him by any specific team.


Exactly.

And also I have to come back to this.

The Mavs have about 29 million in available cap. That means if they do this deal with Al they have used almost their entire cap while still having a glaring need at defensive (read: 3 & D) wing and Point guard. They really don’t have anyone currently worth going over cap to resign and there won’t be anybody decent out there for that level of team that will take a big discount to go to Dallas.

So that leaves Atlanta (not yet ready to make that jump with a guy like Al) and us.

I just can’t see anywhere else that he would be seeing that offer at.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#49 » by Lost in LA » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:51 pm

I hope that this is the case, as 2 of the teams who finished below us last season, the Lakers and Pelicans, are likely to be much better next year. To extend/stretch Barnes and bring in Horford would be a significant upgrade, and keeps the core group together.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#50 » by Call Me Geoff » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:23 pm

I’m all in on Al. A 3yr deal with a 4th yr team option, front loaded sounds good. Great locker room leader, moves the ball and knows how to defend.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#51 » by Kings2016 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:18 pm

RipPizzaGuy wrote:How do you guys feel about him? Gets getting older but hes never really relied on his athleticism. Super skilled guy with an awesome attitude.

I think the kings should go all in this year. We will never have this much cap space again with barnes opting out.

Let's bring barnes back for something like 3/60
Give Horford 3/60.
With over 60 million open we would still have 20+ to play with and this team

Horford/Giles
Bagley/Bjelica
Barnes
Buddy/bogdan
Fox

Biggest weakness in this team would be bench scoring. Add in Terrence Ross for 15 million and bring yogi back and were winning 50 and making the playoffs!



Why are we as Kings fan thinking so small here. Why In the heck would the Kings want a older Al Horford that’s doesn’t change or improve you with this young roster and the pace we play at think about it. Horford trying to run with these dudes. Vucevic, Harris and Middleton are improvements that could get you to the playoffs for sure maybe further depending on how good Bagley is.... btw everyone thinks Harris is a power forward he is more of a small forward in a power forwards body.. he can play the SF with Bagley at the PF .. they have enough cap space if they leave the Harrison Barnes thing alone to get both Vucevic at around 4 years 164 million and also Harris 4 years 164 max contracts that would improve your team and make you a contender in the west( PG Fox, SG Heild, SF Harris, PF Bagley C Vucevic) .. its not time to sit and wait until next year .. they have a great opportunity now and they need to do whatever they can to get it done .. Cauley Stein you let go or offer the qualifying offer just to make sure you can get something in return for him in a sign and trade.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#52 » by RipPizzaGuy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:23 pm

Kings2016 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:How do you guys feel about him? Gets getting older but hes never really relied on his athleticism. Super skilled guy with an awesome attitude.

I think the kings should go all in this year. We will never have this much cap space again with barnes opting out.

Let's bring barnes back for something like 3/60
Give Horford 3/60.
With over 60 million open we would still have 20+ to play with and this team

Horford/Giles
Bagley/Bjelica
Barnes
Buddy/bogdan
Fox

Biggest weakness in this team would be bench scoring. Add in Terrence Ross for 15 million and bring yogi back and were winning 50 and making the playoffs!



Why are we as Kings fan thinking so small here. Why In the heck would the Kings want a older Al Horford that’s doesn’t change or improve you with this young roster and the pace we play at think about it. Horford trying to run with these dudes. Vucevic, Harris and Middleton are improvements that could get you to the playoffs for sure maybe further depending on how good Bagley is.... btw everyone thinks Harris is a power forward he is more of a small forward in a power forwards body.. he can play the SF with Bagley at the PF .. they have enough cap space if they leave the Harrison Barnes thing alone to get both Vucevic at around 4 years 164 million and also Harris 4 years 164 max contracts that would improve your team and make you a contender in the west( PG Fox, SG Heild, SF Harris, PF Bagley C Vucevic) .. its not time to sit and wait until next year .. they have a great opportunity now and they need to do whatever they can to get it done .. Cauley Stein you let go or offer the qualifying offer just to make sure you can get something in return for him in a sign and trade.
We are thinking small because we usually dont get free agents, so more so we are thinking realistic.

Also vucevic is extremely overrated. I'd be beyond upset if we have him 4/100 let alone 4/164 that's awful. I expect Horford to continue being better than vucevic for at least the next 2-3 years.

I'd rather sign barnes/tobias than tobias/vucevic

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Re: Al Horford 

Post#53 » by SmellingColors » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:35 pm

Kings2016 wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:How do you guys feel about him? Gets getting older but hes never really relied on his athleticism. Super skilled guy with an awesome attitude.

I think the kings should go all in this year. We will never have this much cap space again with barnes opting out.

Let's bring barnes back for something like 3/60
Give Horford 3/60.
With over 60 million open we would still have 20+ to play with and this team

Horford/Giles
Bagley/Bjelica
Barnes
Buddy/bogdan
Fox

Biggest weakness in this team would be bench scoring. Add in Terrence Ross for 15 million and bring yogi back and were winning 50 and making the playoffs!



Why are we as Kings fan thinking so small here. Why In the heck would the Kings want a older Al Horford that’s doesn’t change or improve you with this young roster and the pace we play at think about it. Horford trying to run with these dudes. Vucevic, Harris and Middleton are improvements that could get you to the playoffs for sure maybe further depending on how good Bagley is.... btw everyone thinks Harris is a power forward he is more of a small forward in a power forwards body.. he can play the SF with Bagley at the PF .. they have enough cap space if they leave the Harrison Barnes thing alone to get both Vucevic at around 4 years 164 million and also Harris 4 years 164 max contracts that would improve your team and make you a contender in the west( PG Fox, SG Heild, SF Harris, PF Bagley C Vucevic) .. its not time to sit and wait until next year .. they have a great opportunity now and they need to do whatever they can to get it done .. Cauley Stein you let go or offer the qualifying offer just to make sure you can get something in return for him in a sign and trade.


I don't think looking at Horford is thinking small at all. I doubt Harris comes here and I bet Middleton signs with the Bucks, but even so those are SF/PF options, not C. So what's left there of your options is Vucevic. At that point I'm somewhat torn on which I'd prefer, but I think I would generally side with the aging, but experienced, Horford that can mentor our bigs and provide playoff experience than a stat-filling Vucevic who got shut down in the playoffs. Still, I wouldn't be mad at a Vuc signing since he fits with our age group and fills a need, but that doesn't mean Horford is small thinking.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#54 » by Kings2016 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:56 pm

I again say Al Horford doesn’t fit the style of play we have at all.. our pace does not suit his game. Vucevic just averaged 20.1pts 12rebs and made the all star team and some of you think Horford is a better option? I don’t see that at all. They have a chance to improve and if they are serious about winning they try .. I know there aren’t guarantees on who sign but they need to try all out for these guys. Horford though naw doesn’t fit the style of play.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#55 » by SmellingColors » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:06 pm

Vucevic averaged 20 pts on almost 17 shots a game. To put that in perspective, Hield average less than him and Vucevic would be the 3rd if not 4th option on our team offensively. He would not be nearly as effective on our team as he was last year
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#56 » by OGSactownballer » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:53 pm

Exactly.

Vuc was the number one option for that Orlando team that was realistically a lesser talented team than ours.

He is not worth that type of money as a third or fourth option as he would be here and he doesn’t fit what we do and what our key personnel are.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#57 » by Call Me Geoff » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:58 pm

I would compare a Horford signing to when the Kings signed Vlade. Vlade was a 30 yr old Center who had a ton of BB mileage on him and it could be argued he was the most important FA signing in Kings history. Vlade and Al have similar offensive games and Al is a superior defender. I see no shame in overpaying for Al Horford, we could do much worse (see DAJ).
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#58 » by KF10 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:11 am

I rather pay Horford the max than Vucevic.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#59 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:55 am

Kings2016 wrote:Why are we as Kings fan thinking so small here. Why In the heck would the Kings want a older Al Horford that’s doesn’t change or improve you with this young roster and the pace we play at think about it. Horford trying to run with these dudes. Vucevic, Harris and Middleton are improvements that could get you to the playoffs for sure maybe further depending on how good Bagley is.... btw everyone thinks Harris is a power forward he is more of a small forward in a power forwards body.. he can play the SF with Bagley at the PF .. they have enough cap space if they leave the Harrison Barnes thing alone to get both Vucevic at around 4 years 164 million and also Harris 4 years 164 max contracts that would improve your team and make you a contender in the west( PG Fox, SG Heild, SF Harris, PF Bagley C Vucevic) .. its not time to sit and wait until next year .. they have a great opportunity now and they need to do whatever they can to get it done .. Cauley Stein you let go or offer the qualifying offer just to make sure you can get something in return for him in a sign and trade.


You're assuming that Harris will sign here. I think that's a pretty poor assumption.

Horford is older but he's more of a proven commodity as compared to Vuc and you are paying the latter an extra $50M. That's the difference between being capped out after bringing back Barnes and signing one of the Cs and having ~$10M in cap space to fill out the roster with a quality backup PG or additional wing depth.
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Re: Al Horford 

Post#60 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:57 am

Kings2016 wrote:I again say Al Horford doesn’t fit the style of play we have at all.. our pace does not suit his game. Vucevic just averaged 20.1pts 12rebs and made the all star team and some of you think Horford is a better option? I don’t see that at all. They have a chance to improve and if they are serious about winning they try .. I know there aren’t guarantees on who sign but they need to try all out for these guys. Horford though naw doesn’t fit the style of play.


How does he not fit? He can trail the break and hit top of the key threes (his preferred spot) wide open all day. Guys like Horford fit every system. His only problem is age. If you sign him past 2 years you are pretty much paying a bench player ~$25M for whatever comes after that. Have to decide if that's worth it to make a push for next season and continue building a winning culture. Its a good debate.

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