2020 NBA Draft

[jman3134]

As I said, I don't like Carey at all, and don't even see him as a draft pick. He was highly regarded on the recruiting trail and he is listed on most sources I have seen as a lottery pick. I don't see the potential on tape. nbadraft.net/draftexpress/whatever the source, they are wrong on this if they are listing him this high.

Bassey was also one of the 6 mentioned and he showed pretty poorly at the combine, especially with regard to his range. He wouldn't have been drafted.

Jaden McDaniels I haven't seen enough of to formulate an opinion.

Even if I think nbadraft.net stinks (below avg in terms of scouting reports, the mocks are meh imho), these are still highly regarded guys from a recruiting perspective, so they have pedigree. There is precedent for this - isn't just nbadraft.net pulling stuff out of their you know where.

[The-Power]

I like Lewis. Super quick, could thrive in transition, long, takes defense seriously and should do great against Guards on that end. But I would be really surprised if he moved up into the top-tier of prospects. Shooting and ball handling need a lot of work and when you primarily operate from the perimeter these limitations are costly. You can work on them, of course, but only so much and especially when expectations are that you become a top-player.

He can absolutely be a good player but thus far he hasn't shown me anything that screams star potential. As of now, I expect him to be a long-term starter who earns his salary by being a pest defensively, running the floor and being an opportunistic scorer. I'd have him in the lottery for now, I guess, but I lack the imagination for him to break into the top 3 honestly. He'd have to really show off in college far beyond what he's shown to date.

[jman3134]

I like Lewis. Super quick, could thrive in transition, long, takes defense seriously and should do great against Guards on that end. But I would be really surprised if he moved up into the top-tier of prospects. Shooting and ball handling need a lot of work and when you primarily operate from the perimeter these limitations are costly. You can work on them, of course, but only so much and especially when expectations are that you become a top-player.

He can absolutely be a good player but thus far he hasn't shown me anything that screams star potential. As of now, I expect him to be a long-term starter who earns his salary by being a pest defensively, running the floor and being an opportunistic scorer. I'd have him in the lottery for now, I guess, but I lack the imagination for him to break into the top 3 honestly. He'd have to really show off in college far beyond what he's shown to date.

I understand where you are coming from, but humbly disagree. For the reasons you mentioned (not sure I agree on handle), he is a good candidate to spend 2 years in college developing imo. His reads are bad at this stage, but he has absolute elite measureables, is an incredibly bouncy athlete, and has a burst that cannot be taught. He is a high motor guy for sure at the next level, which teams love.

His offensive game is no where near NBA ready, as you said. But, he is extremely young and at an early stage of his development. He hasn't matured physically either, but this is all about the projection game. If he can develop in college, without jumping too soon to the league (I don't envision him breaking into the top 3 next year b/c he is years away on offense), I think he could easily be top 3 in 2021. He needs to learn to make the reads necessary to play basketball at an NBA level. He puts his head down too frequently and relies on his physical gifts to get by defenders. When he actually works on his game, develops a stop and go handle, and learns to shoot, the sky is the limit.

[clyde21]

Do not use nbadraft.net lol

who's using it?

[jman3134]

I used them in my initial post just for reference sake. Doesn't mean I think DeShawn Stevenson is Michael Jordan. Just a starting point on current consensus now that I don't have ESPN insider access.

Edit: I mean they have Mamadi Diakite over Azubuike atm.

[clyde21]

I used them in my initial post just for reference sake. Doesn't mean I think DeShawn Stevenson is Michael Jordan. Just a starting point on current consensus now that I don't have ESPN insider access.

Edit: I mean they have Mamadi Diakite over Azubuike atm.

i like Diakite, low key really good athlete

[clyde21]

as for Lewis, disagree with Power. for me right now Lewis is the clear cut best player in the class, better creator on offense than being given credit for, love his J, quick, compact high release, gets really good arc, can really get out and run and finish in trans, length/athleticism combo is elite...

maybe it's because there is no real #1 overall guy, but Lewis is it for me right now out of all the guys I've seen. Hampton 2nd.

[jman3134]

I used them in my initial post just for reference sake. Doesn't mean I think DeShawn Stevenson is Michael Jordan. Just a starting point on current consensus now that I don't have ESPN insider access.

Edit: I mean they have Mamadi Diakite over Azubuike atm.

i like Diakite, low key really good athlete

In no universe would I rank him ahead of Azubuike as a prospect. Agree to disagree on that one.

But fine, how about the fact that Nick Weiler-Babb is listed as a second round prospect in 2020, despite the fact that he was in this year's draft as a senior?

[The-Power]

as for Lewis, disagree with Power. for me right now Lewis is the clear cut best player in the class, better creator on offense than being given credit for, love his J, quick, compact high release, gets really good arc, can really get out and run and finish in trans, length/athleticism combo is elite...

maybe it's because there is no real #1 overall guy, but Lewis is it for me right now out of all the guys I've seen. Hampton 2nd.

As regards upside, I understand optimism even though I seem to be a bit more conservative than you guys. It's a matter of perspective: I see limited handling, playmaking and shooting and project an elite athlete with a high motor to be able to carve out a role in the league; whereas you see elite athleticism and a high motor and believe he can greatly improve on his skill-deficiencies to become a top-player. That's fair. I don't see it, even though I do believe he has some skill foundation, but I see where you are coming from.

But to say that he is the ‘clear cut best player in the class’ is a bit much to me. Or do you mean prospect? Because as it stands, he was not able to exert himself offensively in AAU or the HS All-Star Games, or really crack Team USA either. If you look at the realgm-database, in the 10 games (8 AAU, 2 HS AS) Lewis was a relatively low-volume scorer with mediocre efficiency who had 34 turnovers compared to only 24 assists. He has extremely raw and far from the best player in the class. And his jumper is really not good yet. It's in line with what I've seen from him in games as well, where he'll make some eye-catching plays and contribute to winning but overall just swims along offensively because other players are clearly better than him on that end and his deficiencies visibly limit his half-court impact.

Either way, I do believe it is way too early to proclaim anybody the clearly best prospect or player at this point and with regard to this class. I believe such confidence in one's assessment is premature, even though I understand the urge to create some hype around the players one likes. I am generally on board with @jman3134 in the sense that Lewis is raw and needs time to develop but does have clear upside. We may disagree on the likelihood to improve beyond a certain threshold in some skill areas but I see the appeal with him. But I don't see him crushing it in his freshman year at the very least, so for 2020 I doubt he'd be seriously considered with a top pick. Happy to be proven wrong, though – he's an easy guy to root for.

[clyde21]

I used them in my initial post just for reference sake. Doesn't mean I think DeShawn Stevenson is Michael Jordan. Just a starting point on current consensus now that I don't have ESPN insider access.

Edit: I mean they have Mamadi Diakite over Azubuike atm.

i like Diakite, low key really good athlete

In no universe would I rank him ahead of Azubuike as a prospect. Agree to disagree on that one.

But fine, how about the fact that Nick Weiler-Babb is listed as a second round prospect in 2020, despite the fact that he was in this year's draft as a senior?

they're pretty bad, yes.

[No-Man]

Lewis is kinda the Matisse Thybulle, Danny Green type, Josh Green is sort of similar too although he has more upside

[clyde21]

as for Lewis, disagree with Power. for me right now Lewis is the clear cut best player in the class, better creator on offense than being given credit for, love his J, quick, compact high release, gets really good arc, can really get out and run and finish in trans, length/athleticism combo is elite...

maybe it's because there is no real #1 overall guy, but Lewis is it for me right now out of all the guys I've seen. Hampton 2nd.

As regards upside, I understand optimism even though I seem to be a bit more conservative than you guys. It's a matter of perspective: I see limited handling, playmaking and shooting and project an elite athlete with a high motor to be able to carve out a role in the league; whereas you see elite athleticism and a high motor and believe he can greatly improve on his skill-deficiencies to become a top-player. That's fair. I don't see it, even though I do believe he has some skill foundation, but I see where you are coming from.

But to say that he is the ‘clear cut best player in the class’ is a bit much to me. Or do you mean prospect? Because as it stands, he was not able to exert himself offensively in AAU or the HS All-Star Games, or really crack Team USA either. If you look at the realgm-database, in the 10 games (8 AAU, 2 HS AS) Lewis was a relatively low-volume scorer with mediocre efficiency who had 34 turnovers compared to only 24 assists. He has extremely raw and far from the best player in the class. And his jumper is really not good yet. It's in line with what I've seen from him in games as well, where he'll make some eye-catching plays and contribute to winning but overall just swims along offensively because other players are clearly better than him on that end and his deficiencies visibly limit his half-court impact.

Either way, I do believe it is way too early to proclaim anybody the clearly best prospect or player at this point and with regard to this class. I believe such confidence in one's assessment is premature, even though I understand the urge to create some hype around the players one likes. I am generally on board with @jman3134 in the sense that Lewis is raw and needs time to develop but does have clear upside. We may disagree on the likelihood to improve beyond a certain threshold in some skill areas but I see the appeal with him. But I don't see him crushing it in his freshman year at the very least, so for 2020 I doubt he'd be seriously considered with a top pick. Happy to be proven wrong, though – he's an easy guy to root for.

i mean, there is for sure some projection there, but I haven't seen anyone yet at this point that looks better to me than Lewis, but again it's still uber early.

I'm def not putting Wiseman or Cole ahead, only one with a chance right now is Hampton, but Lewis gets a pretty big nod defensively.

who do you have #1?

[jman3134]

as for Lewis, disagree with Power. for me right now Lewis is the clear cut best player in the class, better creator on offense than being given credit for, love his J, quick, compact high release, gets really good arc, can really get out and run and finish in trans, length/athleticism combo is elite...

maybe it's because there is no real #1 overall guy, but Lewis is it for me right now out of all the guys I've seen. Hampton 2nd.

As regards upside, I understand optimism even though I seem to be a bit more conservative than you guys. It's a matter of perspective: I see limited handling, playmaking and shooting and project an elite athlete with a high motor to be able to carve out a role in the league; whereas you see elite athleticism and a high motor and believe he can greatly improve on his skill-deficiencies to become a top-player. That's fair. I don't see it, even though I do believe he has some skill foundation, but I see where you are coming from.

But to say that he is the ‘clear cut best player in the class’ is a bit much to me. Or do you mean prospect? Because as it stands, he was not able to exert himself offensively in AAU or the HS All-Star Games, or really crack Team USA either. If you look at the realgm-database, in the 10 games (8 AAU, 2 HS AS) Lewis was a relatively low-volume scorer with mediocre efficiency who had 34 turnovers compared to only 24 assists. He has extremely raw and far from the best player in the class. And his jumper is really not good yet. It's in line with what I've seen from him in games as well, where he'll make some eye-catching plays and contribute to winning but overall just swims along offensively because other players are clearly better than him on that end and his deficiencies visibly limit his half-court impact.

Either way, I do believe it is way too early to proclaim anybody the clearly best prospect or player at this point and with regard to this class. I believe such confidence in one's assessment is premature, even though I understand the urge to create some hype around the players one likes. I am generally on board with @jman3134 in the sense that Lewis is raw and needs time to develop but does have clear upside. We may disagree on the likelihood to improve beyond a certain threshold in some skill areas but I see the appeal with him. But I don't see him crushing it in his freshman year at the very least, so for 2020 I doubt he'd be seriously considered with a top pick. Happy to be proven wrong, though – he's an easy guy to root for.

I think this post is very fair atm given how he played against the top players in his class via McDonalds All American game and the Nike Hoops Summit. While I should have caught more of his games at Ranney, I think he and Antoine had way better chemistry than he had with any guy in these all star games. From memory, he looked great, particularly on defense at the McDonald's game, and played within himself - not really forcing the issue, but utilizing his athleticism to score. At the Nike Hoops Summit, his limitations were on display with regard to playmaking, as he dribbled into double teams and had his head down at times. While it is fair to say that these are huge steps up from high school competition, I would be a little wary to glean much from these contests, given that everyone is trying to exert themselves in an Allstar Format and chemistry is built over time.

I may be dating myself here, but if you remember how Derrick Rose played early in his college career (preface by saying Lewis is no D Rose), he was not making the reads necessary at the college level and was fairly turnover prone. Lewis is further behind in his development from a playmaking standpoint, but the tools exist. He needs to make better reads, keep his head up, and allow for plays to develop. In AAU, you can get by pushing it in transition. He will need to make significant adjustments to his halfcourt floor game, but that applies to virtually every point guard in this class with the exception of Cole Anthony and Nico.

Given how good he is in transition and how much better his feel is, I think that it is only a matter of time before he develops a better halfcourt game. He should make significant strides coming in and throughout the course of the season. However, I think he will need an extra season to also work on nailing down his change of pace handle (which will make him more than just a straight line driver) and his shot. To Clyde's point, the mechanics seem to be there, but his accuracy has not lined up. I haven't watched him enough to make an assessment on what is wrong there, but I suspect it may have to do with inconsistent height on his jump shots (as can be the case with elite level athletes). That is just speculation on a limited sample size though.

Also - this is an important distinction - the best prospect from this class may not be the highest draft pick in next year's draft. Some players are slower to develop than others. You might just disagree on whether he can reach his ceiling, even if you both can envision the ceiling being there.

[brackdan70]

Do not use nbadraft.net lol

who's using it?

I check it out just to see a different perspective but it does seem way out of wack, especially a year out. It gets a little better as the draft gets closer but it’s often got some goofy stuff

[The-Power]

who do you have #1?

It's early but for now I'll have to say Cole and Wiseman. I've watched many of their games and they've stood out thus far.

Wiseman I see somewhere between Davis and Bagley as prospects (note that I was clearly lower on Bagley than the average person when he was coming out of college). He has the potential to be a defensive force – long, quick off the floor, engaged and with a frame that can add weight. He listed Garnett and Bogut as players he studies which bodes well for me, as he seems to know what to focus on. We'll see how he handles perimeter defense against good college players and how his instincts look like against tougher competition, but he has great potential on that end.

On offense he'll has to learn a lot. Can shoot a bit but not reliably at all; has some post-skills but won't give you buckets consistently yet; runs the floor well but prone to tires out; great first and second jump for offensive rebounds but needs to add muscles in order to get into and keep position; can drive in a straight line but not really create from the perimeter; makes the occasional nice pass but is not a playmaker. I expect him to be a positive – if only as a roll-man and rim runner – but it's his defense that will determine his stock.

Cole I understand if some are wary due to size and athletic limitations. But it's a fact that Cole has had his fingerprints all over games consistently. He was the on-ball leader on Team USA, during the All-Star Games, during AAU and of course his HS team. In other words, he has been performing well ahead of his peers practically whenever he got the chance to play them. That counts for something in my book, as he dominated when he got the chance to. Note that he was also able to play according to the needs of his team – often a pass-first facilitator on his HS team, but an explosive scorer when needed to during AAU or a couple of HS AS games.

Will he end up justifying being a or even the top-pick? We'll find out. For me, it depends on his ability to reliably pull-up from 3, finish against size at the rim and show up on the defensive end. He's an excellent playmaker and I'm not sure why there have been some people who doubted his PG skills – I don't see anybody who combines scoring prowess and playmaking ability. Not even close. In HS, his pull-up game and finishing skills looked good enough for me to preliminarily buy into his hype despite his athletic limitations. If that translates to college, I have a hard time seeing any other PG being picked ahead of him. Perhaps Hampton if he blows up and justifies the believe that he can play in an extended on-ball role but I wouldn't bet on it.

Aside from these two (plus Hampton), I'll keep my eyes on Precious. There is something about him that intrigues me but at the same time, I realize that a lot of things have to break right for him in order to enter the race for the top pick – mid-lottery is probably a more realistic goal for him to look at.

He will need to make significant adjustments to his halfcourt floor game, but that applies to virtually every point guard in this class with the exception of Cole Anthony and Nico.

Yeah, but how many of those who have to make significant adjustments will develop at a rate necessary to take over lead-guard duties in the NBA? Maybe one or two will work themselves into that role but it's nothing I would expect. A player who has not been a lead-guard in HS is definitely not someone I'd expect to grow into that role in the NBA. That would be a huge surprise.

Also - this is an important distinction - the best prospect from this class may not be the highest draft pick in next year's draft.

For sure, because prospects are tough to assess and teams are not infallible – to put it kindly – when it comes to drafting. But the player who is considered the best prospect from his class at the time of draft should absolutely be the highest draft pick. If teams believe that Lewis is likely to be a top-3 pick in 2021, they should draft him in that range in 2020 as well – because that means they already project him to become a top-prospect which means he already is one, so to speak.

[clyde21]

thanks for the breakdown.

i don't know if I can agree on Anthony/Wiseman at this point, I don't necessarily see #1 pick types in either, but there's a long road ahead of us.

[jman3134]

Yeah, but how many of those who have to make significant adjustments will develop at a rate necessary to take over lead-guard duties in the NBA? Maybe one or two will work themselves into that role but it's nothing I would expect. A player who has not been a lead-guard in HS is definitely not someone I'd expect to grow into that role in the NBA. That would be a huge surprise.

Practically every lead guard will have to make significant adjustments to hang around just at the college level. So, players grow leaps and bounds in these developmental years. There are plenty of late bloomers who didn't even have his reception as a prospect. Wade, while not a pg, developed significantly in college.

Point guards alone: DJ Augustin, Kris Dunn, Trey Burke, Elfrid Payton, George Hill, Dejounte Murray, Jamal Murray (as a playmaker), Patrick Beverly, Reggie Jackson, Eric Bledsoe, Jeff Teague, Kemba Walker, Damian Lillard, Russell Westbrook (as a playmaker)....list is endless.

For sure, because prospects are tough to assess and teams are not infallible – to put it kindly – when it comes to drafting. But the player who is considered the best prospect from his class at the time of draft should absolutely be the highest draft pick. If teams believe that Lewis is likely to be a top-3 pick in 2021, they should draft him in that range in 2020 as well – because that means they already project him to become a top-prospect which means he already is one, so to speak.

I would say it depends on how ready he is in his development. He could very well be given the keys to the Bentley at Florida and not develop much as a playmaker, relying exclusively on his athleticism to overpower opponents. Florida is not like Villanova in terms of guard development. If he was going to Nova, I would be more confident that he could develop in one year.

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Pace of development has limited bearing on a prospect's ceiling (unless the guy is like 23 and been playing basketball his whole life). Otherwise, guys like Giannis would not be able to develop late and have the success they are having. Lewis is so thin at this point - I can't even envision him guarding in the league. Introduce him to college strength training and he will grow by leaps and bounds on physical development alone.

[No-Man]

I just don't see it with Wiseman, he has monster size and solid athletic tools but he is a bit too Moses Brown at times for my taste, and he gets destroyed too often

[NotMyKawhi]

Any mock that has Lamelo over Cole Anthony doesn't know basketball.

France has two point guards in next years draft better than Lamelo.

[clyde21]

there are gonna be some older freshmen in the next draft, Scottie is already older than Zion/RJ, and Cole and Antoine will both be 20 by draft night, Precious will play the entire year as a 20yo