Fort Knox: A defense of Kevin Knox

br7knicks · Post #681 » by **br7knicks** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:53 pm

cooch2584 wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:You cant have 2 defensely challenged players on the court at the same time. Knox and Frank should NEVER be on the court at the same time.

I've read some strange things about Frank but this....

Not even the worst Frank critic would call him defensively challenged

As I said before his defense doesnt live up to the defense I have seen over my years as a fan. I just dont think hes a smart player. Yes hes young and so is knox and i hope down the road my opinion is changed on both of them. Question, as of right now, with what we have , if we had to put a starting 5 on the court right now, who would be yalls starting 5??

well, frank's highIQ is one of his strengths. that's why he was coveted by phil.

problem is that the NBA game is way too fast for frank, so he always looks a step behind (why he's so timid when driving to the rim). i wouldn't be surprised if he goes back to europe somewhere and becomes a great player, and defensive player of the year in any league he plays in.

as of now, the starting 5 would be

dsjr
frank
dotson
barrett
mitch

stuporman · Post #682 » by **stuporman** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:38 pm

The BBIQ of this forum gets more 'challenged' all the time...... :lol:

cooch2584 · Post #683 » by **cooch2584** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:11 pm

stuporman wrote:The BBIQ of this forum gets more 'challenged' all the time......

Wanna explain this comment?

thebuzzardman · Post #684 » by **thebuzzardman** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:58 pm

cooch2584 wrote:I know I'm old school. Been a Knicks fan since 1967,so maybe I'M biased because I saw some great defensive Knicks teams over the years. But the saying that good defense creates offense should still hold true today. It would surprise a lot of teams if up in your face defense were to be there in this era of basketball.IMHO

I can see why you aren't wild about Knox - right now, and Fiz's coaching last year.
Knox I think we need patience. I don't think he'll ever be a very good defender, but I think he can attain average.

But it's a bit puzzling your impatience with Frank in this context. I don't go as far back as you, but I have a vague recollection of the 2nd championship team. More the unit still together for a couple years after. Though as a kid.

Franks as good a defensive guard as a young guy the Knicks have ever had. As a young player or rookie.

Give me a list of the better(or as good) defensive guards and then give me a list of the guys who were better as rookies.

Clyde - both lists
Starks - older guy list
Spreewell - older guy list
Pre coke spree Michael Ray Richardson - older guy list
Dean Meminger - both lists
Darrell Walker - both lists
Greg Anthony - both lists
Charlie Ward - both lists

50+ years, I got 8 guys, not sure a couple are better than Frank right now, at 21 years old.

Apologies if I missed an obvious guy.

cooch2584 · Post #685 » by **cooch2584** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:06 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:I know I'm old school. Been a Knicks fan since 1967,so maybe I'M biased because I saw some great defensive Knicks teams over the years. But the saying that good defense creates offense should still hold true today. It would surprise a lot of teams if up in your face defense were to be there in this era of basketball.IMHO

I can see why you aren't wild about Knox - right now, and Fiz's coaching last year.

But it's a bit puzzling your impatience with Frank in this context. I don't go as far back as you, but I have a vague recollection of the 2nd championship team. More the unit still together for a couple years after. Though as a kid.

Franks as good a defensive guard as a young guy the Knicks have ever had. As a young player or rookie.

Maybe Im wrong, but he just looks lost out there. Like a deer in the headlights. I honestly hope he changes my perception of him this up coming season. If he does ILL be the first one to say so on the board. Now Knox.....yes hes young but I need to see progression on him. Needs a killer instinct.

thebuzzardman · Post #686 » by **thebuzzardman** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:14 pm

cooch2584 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:I know I'm old school. Been a Knicks fan since 1967,so maybe I'M biased because I saw some great defensive Knicks teams over the years. But the saying that good defense creates offense should still hold true today. It would surprise a lot of teams if up in your face defense were to be there in this era of basketball.IMHO

I can see why you aren't wild about Knox - right now, and Fiz's coaching last year.

But it's a bit puzzling your impatience with Frank in this context. I don't go as far back as you, but I have a vague recollection of the 2nd championship team. More the unit still together for a couple years after. Though as a kid.

Franks as good a defensive guard as a young guy the Knicks have ever had. As a young player or rookie.

Maybe Im wrong, but he just looks lost out there. Like a deer in the headlights. I honestly hope he changes my perception of him this up coming season. If he does ILL be the first one to say so on the board. Now Knox.....yes hes young but I need to see progression on him. Needs a killer instinct.

That's interesting. At times, on offense, he looks lost. Or, more, trying too hard to not make a mistake. So agreed. I think it gets overstated, and that he runs the team well at times, though obviously he should attack more.

But defensively, other than letting quick small guards turn his hip a bit too much at times, he's an EXCELLENT team defender and a very good one on one defender, which the rules have all conspired against making it harder to do than back in the day.

I'd keep him around as a defensive stopper, hope he acquire shot, have really wishful thinking his offense comes around, and trade him before he comes up on a 2nd contract to a team that needs a bench defender, and he'll bring back more if he develops a 3. Or they keep him. But with 6 picks in 4 years in the first round, I could see Frank going, honestly with at least one and probably two other young guys we all like or dislike at the moment. Team will definitely not look the same in 2 years.

stuporman · Post #687 » by **stuporman** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:51 pm

cooch2584 wrote:
stuporman wrote:The BBIQ of this forum gets more 'challenged' all the time......

Wanna explain this comment?

Nope, it's self explanatory.

cooch2584 · Post #688 » by **cooch2584** » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:00 pm

stuporman wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:
stuporman wrote:The BBIQ of this forum gets more 'challenged' all the time......

Wanna explain this comment?

Nope, it's self explanatory.[/quot

easy way out

Juco24 · Post #689 » by **Juco24** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:10 am

Separation Season

Post #690 » by **HerSports85** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:38 am

Knox not playing with y’all this off season. He’s coming for it all

blanko · Post #691 » by **blanko** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:34 am

I think knox will play much better this season,

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ny-n-md · Post #692 » by **ny-n-md** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:51 am

I can’t wait to see season 2 for him.

Fat Kat · Post #693 » by **Fat Kat** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:51 am

Juco24 wrote:Separation Season

Good to see him working out with Keith Bogans. I expect him to be a head coach one day

Meat · Post #694 » by **Meat** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:03 am

cooch2584 wrote:I know I'm old school. Been a Knicks fan since 1967,so maybe I'M biased because I saw some great defensive Knicks teams over the years. But the saying that good defense creates offense should still hold true today. It would surprise a lot of teams if up in your face defense were to be there in this era of basketball.IMHO

Don’t confuse good defense with **** offensive eras

Mecca · Post #695 » by **Mecca** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:12 am

I’m all for bringing Vince Carter in for a few million as the vet to mentor the kids. Crazy thing is he was a better player than Knox or Frank last year. He’s cheap 3&D. Offer him a 1 year deal and a future role with MSG in Wally’s role when he retires.

ny-n-md · Post #696 » by **ny-n-md** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:38 am

Mecca wrote:I’m all for bringing Vince Carter in for a few million as the vet to mentor the kids. Crazy thing is he was a better player than Knox or Frank last year. He’s cheap 3&D. Offer him a 1 year deal and a future role with MSG in Wally’s role when he retires.

Are you sure? He’s pretty slow defensively and doesn’t provide much offense. I haven’t looked at the stats but I saw him play last year and couldn’t help but notice how much his play has dropped off. He did hit a three in a game all the time but that wasn’t significant enough to say he was better than Knox and Frank.

blanko · Post #697 » by **blanko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:04 am

Mecca wrote:I’m all for bringing Vince Carter in for a few million as the vet to mentor the kids. Crazy thing is he was a better player than Knox or Frank last year. He’s cheap 3&D. Offer him a 1 year deal and a future role with MSG in Wally’s role when he retires.

I would sign him just for the vet leadership

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blanko · Post #698 » by **blanko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:52 am

I think one of the glaring holes in ournroster after lee got traded was the lack of vet leadership/mentoring . Look at the cavs after they got back delly and mitch after we got deandre. Vet leadership does matter, mentoring matters. We need high character guys who can give advice to our youngsters.

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Sark · Post #699 » by **Sark** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:52 am

I'd hire Vince as a coach before I'd sign him as a player.

blanko · Post #700 » by **blanko** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:57 am

Sark wrote:I'd hire Vince as a coach before I'd sign him as a player.

Its not just about productivity, its also about mentorship/leadership its different than assistant coaches. Having a player mentor you helps so much. Sexton became a different player after thencavs got delly not because delly was more talented, but because delly was the one giving him pointers/good advice. We need that imho, guys like wilson chandler, vince, deng, dudley, frye, devin harris, can all do that.

We cant make videogame rosters, coaches have their limits, and if we want to invest in our youth we also need vet leadership.

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