Offseason Thread: The Waiting is the Hardest Part

[robillionaire]

I want the Knicks to sign Kd, but what you do with the rest of the cap is really intriguing, we know KD is out next year, but what free agents are available next summer that are going to join, because what will the Knicks be even 2 years from now even if KD returns? KD and hoping the young kids take a huge leap forward..that’s risky..

I would take a swing for AD next summer because AD would be worth signing no matter what, but if that doesn't pan out then I wouldn't sign any mid-tier free agents only 1 year deals and just wait until summer 2021 and see if KD looks like himself his first year back, and to see if he and the kids can even make us a playoff team in 2020-2021.

If after his first season back he's looking washed up and the team still sucks I wouldn't even sign anybody and start looking to trade him to a contender or just shut him down and keep rebuilding for his last 2 years or use his expiring contract as a trade chip in year 4

that seems unlikely, unless we're taking chris paul back.

we traded washed up melo, we can trade washed up KD

[BBALLER4FR]

That injury changed this offseason drastically for us. At one point in time we were thinking get KD and both top tier and filler would be drooling to come here. Now? Maybe longtime friend Kyrie stays the course but convincing vets to come play with Kyrie and, potentially, KD lite...

[BeagleBoss]

KD is not KD anymore. He's Joel Ingles at best.

Either way, I will support and root for him if he comes here. But my heart and gut strongly say 'hell **** no!'.

jesus

I'm not even goign to respond to his post directly to me because that's possibly the worst take of all time

For the record, you expect to KD to come back and be the same player?

[god shammgod]

THOUGHTS:

- Hopefully, the KNICKS have instructed their accountants to work up a spreadsheet with the projected increase in sales the Kawhi New Balance shoe would receive should he come to MSG. That should be the first order of business in the meeting with Kawhi.

- Hopefully, all the millionaire/billionaire businessmen who own luxury suites at MSG and set up business deals for KD a year ago to come to NYC have contacted him by now to remind him that their deals are contingent upon him coming to the KNICKS and not the Nets.

- Kyrie is a weird dude and a known troll. I wouldn't be surprised if the "I'm going to the Nets" talk was just his way of appearing different and unpredictable.

the shoe people themselves let their clients know this. most of the nike contracts the big stars sign usually have clauses that they'll make more if they're in ny or l.a. wouldn't surprise me if the other companies do the same.

[newyorker4ever]

Or at least that's what most of you just spent the last dozen pages saying... AND FREE AGENCY HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET!!!

I can't wait to see how some of you have to take back some of your slanderous words and comments when free agency goes differently than the naysayers and doubters are predicting.

AT LEAST SAVE SOME OF THE "I Never Wanted Him Anyway" COMMENTS UNTIL AFTER AN ACTUAL DECISION IS ANNOUNCED!

Are you aware he ruptured his Achilles?

Yes, KEVIN DURANT ruptured his Achilles. However, there are other top free agents besides him -- yet posters are still predicting we get NOTHING, which, IMO, is kinda silly to do at this point.

No decision from ANY free agent has been announced. I suggest we at least wait for the real thing rather than spend hours reacting to rumors that sway with the wind.

Well i think maybe it also has to do with the mutliple times Peryy and Mills and the NY media has said if we don't sign one of the top guys in KD or Kawhi then we won't be signing any of the high dollar guys, so limiting us to just two major free agents when there's anywhere from 6-7-8 teams that will be going after those two guys and with one of them being a huge percentage that he's either staying on his championship team or going to LA kinda puts us in a tough position when it comes to any of the big names.

Now of course all this talk about it starting with one of those two or we do nothing with any of the big money free agents could all be just some BS since we haven't ever heard Perry or Mills actually say that that's how it will be so this all could just be speculation by the media and fans and they could look at some of the other bigger money guys and sign two of them but it sure seems like their max money list is very limited.

Now it is a 100% fact that we will sign free agents this offseason because the rules tell us we have to spend 90% of our cap so if all you're tryinbg to say is that the Knicks will absolutely sign free agents then you sir are correct, they will because they have to, but what everyone else is talking about is if we'll sign a KD or a Kawhi or a Kyrie or a Kemba or a J.Butler type not Mario or M.Morris or even a R.Rubio type.

[snadler]

Rudy Gay averaged 13 and 7 last year a year after his Achilles injury, Wes Matthews came back to help Indy a year after his Achilles and we know Kd is 100 times better than those guys, so stop with the doom and gloom..science is a lot better these days..if KD returns will be top player in the world no, but he still can be top 10

[thebuzzardman]

Even if he’s a shell of himself we won’t care because Mitch, Knox, RJ, Trier, DSJ, And Frank would of all developed into the best version of themselves.

my thought process is even if KD doesn't totally work out and come back to form for next were we will still be developing our youth and should get a high draft pick.

If we sign guys like Randle/DLO or other we tie up all our cap space and take our developmental minutes away plus might be a 9th or 8th seed and reep no draft pick reward.

KD almost ties up space to not do anything stupid and continue the build...which is sad but that is worse case scenario. Best case is KD redshirts and comes back close to 100%, the kids develop, and we get a high 2020 pick. That is Plan A right now

I'm just spitballing - don't feel this is likely what I'm proposing

Kyrie\Randle

Where Randle gets 18 million x 4

The Knicks main "developmental" pieces are arguably at SG, SF and C - RJ, Knox, Mitch
Assumes that the FO isn't sold on either Frank or DSJr as "the solution" at PG, but would be satisfied with either as a backup

Kyrie solves PG for 4 years, though the team will have to find another afterwards that matches the timeline of now 25-27 year old players

As of now, the team possess zero PF's on the roster. Heck, I think even Hicks was renounced.
Randle plugs in the young PF that mostly matches the timeline. Buy not being completely maxed, the team retains roughly 9 million of flexibility or whatever, that they didn't have

Trier, Frank, Dotson, IggyB provide some organization depth at wing, Some vets needs to be explored at backup PF and backup C


It's not what I'm looking forward to, but it's an interesting idea. Other than I think it's a mistake to go in on Randle.

Not sure the team is ultimately that much better or worse than Post Rupture KD and Kyrie a season from now. The only upside to that scenario is the hope and wish KD recovers fully. Which odds are DEEPLY against.

[iLLmatic860]

Did I just read that KD will be Joe Ingles at best?

Lmao Im gonna try to stay away from this thread today. Save me some sanity. Sunday cant come fast enough

[robillionaire]

Rudy Gay averaged 13 and 7 last year a year after his Achilles injury, Wes Matthews came back to help Indy a year after his Achilles and we know Kd is 100 times better than those guys, so stop with the doom and gloom..science is a lot better these days..if KD returns will be top player in the world no, but he still can be top 10

wes matthews has sucked post achilles injury watch him shoot a jump shot he can't even jump he's a shell of his former self on portland

[mpharris36]

Even if he’s a shell of himself we won’t care because Mitch, Knox, RJ, Trier, DSJ, And Frank would of all developed into the best version of themselves.

my thought process is even if KD doesn't totally work out and come back to form for next were we will still be developing our youth and should get a high draft pick.

If we sign guys like Randle/DLO or other we tie up all our cap space and take our developmental minutes away plus might be a 9th or 8th seed and reep no draft pick reward.

KD almost ties up space to not do anything stupid and continue the build...which is sad but that is worse case scenario. Best case is KD redshirts and comes back close to 100%, the kids develop, and we get a high 2020 pick. That is Plan A right now

That is sad and not a defensible justification though

i totally get that POV. However if the team believes KD missing a season and can come back nearly to his similar for it might be a risk worth taking from the Knicks POV.

[Clyde_Style]

Hyperbole aside, what is the most realistic player KD is after a year of rehabbing?

I'll throw out guesses

Tobias Harris
Faded Melo
Cadillac Ryan Anderson
End of the Road Pete Maravich
Post surgery Kobe
Fancy Mirotic
Old Dirk

Anyone?

Old Dirk with a dash of faded Melo most likely

I cannot for the life of me believe so many here are rationalizing away the truth that there is NO HISTORICAL BASIS for saying KD will be anything like the player he was before

It is completely irrational. Post-achilles players are never the same and it does not mean saying 70% of old KD is better than the rest of the league. That's nonsensical.

Once a player loses their mobility and ability to push off with a first step and has to depend mostly on craft and guile, then that is a lot less than 70% of who they were in a league full of super human specimens.

He is not just going to shoot over people. This is ridiculous. He is going to still have to rely on his handle which should largely be intact and make sudden cuts or pull-ups on his jumper, the very thing that will put more stress on the injured achilles.

You won't have him crashing the boards, you won't have him making big defensive plays at the rim and even his passing ability will be lessened because that still requires lower body push-off strength, otherwise you're trying to arm strength everything which leads to muscular imbalances and more injuries.

People need to stop kidding themselves because the history of these injuries does not have a 30 something player coming back to close to whom they were before.

And that my friends is why those who pound the table for KD are just gamblers, but not professional gamblers. The risk that you are tying up max money into at best a complementary player when they come back is an exceedingly high probability.

[Dave DaButcher]

Hyperbole aside, what is the most realistic player KD is after a year of rehabbing?

I'll throw out guesses

Tobias Harris
Faded Melo
Cadillac Ryan Anderson
End of the Road Pete Maravich
Post surgery Kobe
Fancy Mirotic
Old Dirk

Anyone?

Post-ACL tear Bernard?

[Richard4444]

Maybe the rumors of Durant signing with Nets are true. And Durant have decided to play for the Nets because he have realized that Nets will try to be a contender sooner than the Knicks which would not trade away his young core for Second and Third tiers vets to try to win now.

Perhaps Knicks Front Office said to Durant that they would not rush things and would not sign any Max 30% FA not named Leonard and would not trade young players for vets.

[iLLmatic860]

Did Max Kellerman really just day that Kristaps is one of the greatest hes ever seen on defense lol

[Clyde_Style]

I would take a swing for AD next summer because AD would be worth signing no matter what, but if that doesn't pan out then I wouldn't sign any mid-tier free agents only 1 year deals and just wait until summer 2021 and see if KD looks like himself his first year back, and to see if he and the kids can even make us a playoff team in 2020-2021.

If after his first season back he's looking washed up and the team still sucks I wouldn't even sign anybody and start looking to trade him to a contender or just shut him down and keep rebuilding for his last 2 years or use his expiring contract as a trade chip in year 4

that seems unlikely, unless we're taking chris paul back.

we traded washed up melo, we can trade washed up KD

For Enes Kanter, Dougie McBuckets and a 2nd round pick?

Thanks, I'll pass (even though that 2nd round pick became Mitch, it is still a 2nd round pick)

[3toheadmelo]

Rudy Gay averaged 13 and 7 last year a year after his Achilles injury, Wes Matthews came back to help Indy a year after his Achilles and we know Kd is 100 times better than those guys, so stop with the doom and gloom..science is a lot better these days..if KD returns will be top player in the world no, but he still can be top 10

Spoiler:

Rudy Gay

Spoiler:

Rudy Gay

Spoiler:

Rudy Gay

Spoiler:

Rudy Gay

Spoiler:

Rudy Gay

Spoiler:

[god shammgod]

OAKLAND – The NBA’s favorite parlor game will soon end. Within the next week, more clarity should emerge about where Kevin Durant will sign as a free agent.

Once that parlor game ends, though, another one will begin: How will Durant come back from a torn Achilles?

“I have a lot of faith in the man as a player and a person,” Dominique Wilkins told Bay Area News Group. “He’s definitely going to do the necessary thing to get back. He loves the game too much.”

Wilkins’ words hold weight. Beyond his credentials as a Hall of Famer and high-flying dunker. Wilkins is the only player in NBA history whose stats got better post-Achilles. Could Durant become the second?

“It’s going to come down to how hard you are willing to work to get back,” Wilkins said. “This injury takes a lot of patience. But I think Kevin Durant is going to be fine. He’s one of those superstar players that will not let this obstacle hold him back.”

There is a vast array of medical opinions on the matter.

Dr. John D. Kelly IV, professor of Orthopaedic Surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, said “this could very well be a career-killer” because of an anticipated decrease in jumping ability, especially if Durant returns earlier than the projected year-long absence. According to a 2013 study published by the American Journal of Sports Medicine, 37 out of 43 NBA players who had a major Achilles injury between 1988 and 2011 showed “a decreased level of performance. The other six did not return to the league.

“It’s hard to predict,” said Dr. Paul Cammack, an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankle surgeries at Twin Cities Orthopedics in Minnesota. “We have a lot of professional athletes who come back from that injury and are able to play at a high level again. Are they the same afterwards? I would say that’s the exception and not the rule that they get back to the same level they were at before. There are those that do, but it’s going to be a challenge. He’s got a long road ahead of him.”

When Wilkins ruptured his right Achilles tendon midway through the 1991-92 season, he faced the same questions about his future. Not only did he return in nine months, but he also increased his scoring average from 28.1 to 29.9. He played seven seasons after the injury and made two more All-Star teams.

Wilkins regularly shares the story of his recovery to other players who have suffered the same injury, including Warriors center DeMarcus Cousins. Wilkins has not spoken with Durant.

“There’s no doubt in my mind he’s going to do the necessary things to get back,” Wilkins said. “He is a star player in this league. Star players and great players find a way.”

Wilkins isn’t alone in his optimistic view.

“There’s no reason to think he can’t get back to where he was,” said Dr. Steven Weinfeld, the chief of foot and ankle surgery at The Mount Sinai Health System in New York. “He should recover fine and get back to where he was. But it’s a time thing. You have to get the repair done. You have to get the skin healed. Then you have to start working the muscle and getting it to strengthen itself. You can’t rush that. It’s not something that happens quicker if you’re a professional versus somebody who is not. The type of player that he is, though, makes it more of a favorable prognosis.”

Durant had averaged a league-leading 34.2 points on 51.3 percent shooting during the NBA playoffs before suffering what was said to be a right calf injury against Houston in the second round. After missing nine consecutive playoff games, and 32 days, Durant returned for Game 5 of the NBA Finals against Toronto. He had scored 11 points in 12 minutes when his Achilles blew.

Wes Wilcox, an NBA-TV analyst and onetime GM of the Atlanta Hawks, is another believer.

“I would expect Kevin to come back at an elite level and be able to play for a long time at an elite level,” Wilcox said. “Certainly there is an unknown there with the Achilles, but we’ve seen players come back from it. I would expect Kevin to be the next success story with having to deal with that injury.”

The optimism about Durant’s injury is rooted partly in Durant’s style of play. Unlike Kobe Bryant and Wesley Matthews, Durant won’t be chasing point guards on his return. Unlike Cousins, he won’t be taking a beating down low.

Instead, Durant can rely on what has made him No. 36 on the NBA/ABA’s all-time scoring list. He can use his size — listed at 6-9, but more like 7-foot — to shoot over players. He can use his footwork to create separation in the post and along the perimeter. He can play more methodical to offset any diminished athleticism.

“It’s a lot harder for a big center that plays down low to come back from an Achilles injury as opposed to someone who is more versatile. Specific to Kevin, I think what plays to his advantage is with how tall he is and how much of a shooter he is,” said Dr. Jonathan Kaplan, a foot and ankle surgeon with the Hoag Orthopedic Institute. “He can get up and get over people by way of his height. So he may not have to rely as much on the explosive power of his Achilles, at least early on.”

Another variable that might help Durant’s case? His age. He injured his right Achilles tendon in the prime of his career. He is currently 30 years old and will turn 31 in late September. Therefore, medical experts do not anticipate Durant will experience as many challenges had he injured his Achilles tendon in his mid 30s.

At age 34, Bryant returned eight months following his Achilles injury and played only six games in the 2013-14 season before needing season-ending surgery on his left knee. Isiah Thomas and Chauncey Billups both were 35 when they tore an Achilles. Thomas had already decided to retire. Billups returned for two injury-filled seasons before retiring. Rudy Gay was 31 when he tore an Achilles; he returned and played in a reduced role for two seasons.

“Time will be the ultimate tell,” said Dr. Douglas Cerynik, CEO of Stabiliz Orthopaedics, “but I think his unique persona and his unique play helps. If you can put a metric on passion and competitiveness? I think that, mixed also with age and his history in the league, should pull in his favor.”

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/25/dominique-wilkins-kevin-durant-is-going-to-be-fine-post-injury/

[Knick4Real]

THOUGHTS:

- Hopefully, the KNICKS have instructed their accountants to work up a spreadsheet with the projected increase in sales the Kawhi New Balance shoe would receive should he come to MSG. That should be the first order of business in the meeting with Kawhi.

- Hopefully, all the millionaire/billionaire businessmen who own luxury suites at MSG and set up business deals for KD a year ago to come to NYC have contacted him by now to remind him that their deals are contingent upon him coming to the KNICKS and not the Nets.

- Kyrie is a weird dude and a known troll. I wouldn't be surprised if the "I'm going to the Nets" talk was just his way of appearing different and unpredictable.

the shoe people themselves let their clients know this. most of the nike contracts the big stars sign usually have clauses that they'll make more if they're in ny or l.a. wouldn't surprise me if the other companies do the same.

Yep, I know. Just pointing out it's worth repeating at the start of their scheduled meeting.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I am no expert on this but I would guess KD will be allstar good, but not MVP good. Basically a top 20 player, but not a top 5 player.

[Rooster8]

The only free agent I really really want is Kawhi...
I know it's a long shot but at the end of the day he is a champion, and healthy as of right now.