Lowe - Timberwolves Still Want D-Russell

[Killboard]

In a scenario where we can get Dlo for Teague and future assets without involving current pieces:

Kat+Dlo+Wiggins would make a little under 90M.
With the tax being 130M or more for the following seasons, we would have 40M to fill the roster.

Dieng and Roco make close to 26M for the next year. That leaves roughly 14M for the rookie scaled contracts and minimums, and maybe Tyus for the next season.

The year after next, Dieng expires opening 15M who can be used on extending rookies as KBD, Okogie and maybe Nowell.

Culver extensions kicks is as Wiggins expires.

So I don't really see a need to add significant assets to unload him.

[Domejandro]

For the record, if Minnesota trades Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng, they could actually open up cap-space in two ways....
1. Waive Cameron Reynolds (immediate promise to resign him).
2. Extend Tyus for less than his cap-hold.

Or the more obvious, rescind his QO. Would like to keep him as our back up, but we might get outbid for Tyus in FA anyway.

If we trade Teague and Gorgui, Minnesota would only need a bit under two million. Given Tyus' cap-hold is at 7.3 million, it would be possible to resign him at a starting amount that is less.

[Domejandro]

In a scenario where we can get Dlo for Teague and future assets without involving current pieces:

Kat+Dlo+Wiggins would make a little under 90M.
With the tax being 130M or more for the following seasons, we would have 40M to fill the roster.

Dieng and Roco makes close to 26M for the next year. That leaves roughly 14M for the rookie scaled contracts and minimums, and maybe Tyus for the next season.

The year after next, Dieng expires opening 15M who can be used on extending rookies.

Culver extensions kicks is as Wiggins expires.

So I don't really see a need to add significant assets to unload him.

Because Minnesota literally cannot sign him without trading Gorgui (or Wiggins) along with Jeff Teague. Minnesota would have to add salary to a sign-and-trade of Jeff Teague for D'Angelo Russell, and Minnesota doesn't have any other filler salary (other than assets like Josh Okogie).

[Killboard]

In a scenario where we can get Dlo for Teague and future assets without involving current pieces:

Kat+Dlo+Wiggins would make a little under 90M.
With the tax being 130M or more for the following seasons, we would have 40M to fill the roster.

Dieng and Roco makes close to 26M for the next year. That leaves roughly 14M for the rookie scaled contracts and minimums, and maybe Tyus for the next season.

The year after next, Dieng expires opening 15M who can be used on extending rookies.

Culver extensions kicks is as Wiggins expires.

So I don't really see a need to add significant assets to unload him.

Because Minnesota literally cannot sign him without trading Gorgui (or Wiggins) along with Jeff Teague. Minnesota would have to add salary to a sign-and-trade of Jeff Teague for D'Angelo Russell, and Minnesota doesn't have any other filler salary (other than assets like Josh Okogie).

Reynolds can be included as unguaraneed to go as far as 25M.

We also have a little TPE of Saric trade that can be used to acquire another unguaraneed minimum contract to be used as a filler for a full Max.

[Mattya]

For the record, if Minnesota trades Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng, they could actually open up cap-space in two ways....
1. Waive Cameron Reynolds (immediate promise to resign him).
2. Extend Tyus for less than his cap-hold.

Or the more obvious, rescind his QO. Would like to keep him as our back up, but we might get outbid for Tyus in FA anyway.

If we trade Teague and Gorgui, Minnesota would only need a bit under two million. Given Tyus' cap-hold is at 7.3 million, it would be possible to resign him at a starting amount that is less.

Something he would need to agree to, but I worry some team is going to offer him close to if not more than his cap hold.

[KGdaBom]

Kyrie to the Nets sounds like done deal.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-nets-likely-to-sign-kyrie-irving-to-4-year-dollar141-million-deal/ar-AADrPPO?ocid=ientp

It's doubtful the Nets want to go with both Russell and Irving so first domino to fall in Russell to the Wolves.

Plus they already paid Dinwiddie.

Domino 2 is seeing if Kyrie can bring Kevin Durant, and the news today that GSW isn’t going to keep him makes that more encouraging.

However, I think this is a road for Russell going “somewhere,” but him going to the Wolves seems highly unlikely.

Sure it's unlikely, but it's more likely with this news than without. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

[Killboard]

Kyrie to the Nets sounds like done deal.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-nets-likely-to-sign-kyrie-irving-to-4-year-dollar141-million-deal/ar-AADrPPO?ocid=ientp

It's doubtful the Nets want to go with both Russell and Irving so first domino to fall in Russell to the Wolves.

Plus they already paid Dinwiddie.

Domino 2 is seeing if Kyrie can bring Kevin Durant, and the news today that GSW isn’t going to keep him makes that more encouraging.

However, I think this is a road for Russell going “somewhere,” but him going to the Wolves seems highly unlikely.

Sure it's unlikely, but it's more likely with this news than without. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Also, for the assumption of any scenario where we end up with Dlo, we should act as he wants to come here. Obviously this is far from certain, but we can't end with him here in any other scenario so it wouldn't make sense even talk about it.

[shrink]

I realized that Some of my posts may be confusing people, so I wanted to clear that up.

There are TWO ways allowed by the CBA to acquire Russell - as a free agent, or in a sign-and-trade - but their similarity in this instance probably causes confusion.

FREE AGENT: Russell will likely want to be paid a max deal, which at his experience, would cost $27.25 mil. MIN can pare it’s salaries down to being about $8 mil over the cap, so to have make a $27 mil offer, they’d need to cut $35 mil in salary. Teague plus Dieng equals $35, but trading them to a third team for cap space creates two additional $900,000 roster holds for having too few players, so we’d need to find more.

SIGN-AND-TRADE: in this method, before signing Kyrie + KD, BRK uses their RFA rights to sign Russell, and trade him to us as a $27 mil player. It resembles a free agent acquisition only because BRK doesn’t want players back - they want cap space (and maybe cheap assets) back so they have the overall cap space to sign Kyrie and KD. Again, we don’t have cap space, so we need to involve that third team. However min a sign and trade, we only need $21.72 outgoing to meet the 125% salary matching requirements.

We have talked a lot about the first method, so I wanted to mention a few points about SIGN-AND-TRADES.

1. At $21.72, Wiggins alone has the salary to match a Russell deal. Teague ($19) does not, and we don’t have a lot of comfortable pieces we can include to get over that number.
2. Remember that if we somehow sent a low number (pretend $22), taking on Russell at $27 would eat up an additional $5 mil under the lux. We don’t have a whole lot of space left to fill out our roster with anything but cheap players.
3. By doing a sign-and-trade, BRK may ask for additional compensation that would not be required if we signed him as a free agent.

[shrink]

Let me make two predictions, one safe and one surprising:

Some team will give Russell a max deal, and in December, he will make The Trade Board’s “20 Worst Contract” list.

[Killboard]

1. At $21.72, Wiggins alone has the salary to match a Russell deal. Teague ($19) does not, and we don’t have a lot of comfortable pieces we can include to get over that number.
2. Remember that if we somehow sent a low number (pretend $22), taking on Russell at $27 would eat up an additional $5 mil under the lux. We don’t have a whole lot of space left to fill out our roster with anything but cheap players.
3. By doing a sign-and-trade, BRK may ask for additional compensation that would not be required if we signed him as a free agent.

On point 3, the assets needed to unload either Dieng or Wiggins will likely exceed whatever Brooklyn asks for a S&T, and whatever other teams could ask to take Teague expiring as well. In the later scenario, Wolves would still have Dieng and Wiggins under the payroll moving forward tough, but isnt like we are going to add depth this season other than minimums if we go under the cap, or more than the MLE and a late lotto next season. Dieng and Wiggins, while overpaid, still add talent to the roster.

On 2, for sure it will damage our ability to use the full MLE, that's where the added money would be coming from.

On point 1, an unguarateed minimum contract is as close as neutral assets as it gets. Wolves have one in Reynolds to match little more than 25M (packaging him with Teague).

[old school 34]

I realized that Some of my posts may be confusing people, so I wanted to clear that up.

There are TWO ways allowed by the CBA to acquire Russell - as a free agent, or in a sign-and-trade - but their similarity in this instance probably causes confusion.

FREE AGENT: Russell will likely want to be paid a max deal, which at his experience, would cost $27.25 mil. MIN can pare it’s salaries down to being about $8 mil over the cap, so to have make a $27 mil offer, they’d need to cut $35 mil in salary. Teague plus Dieng equals $35, but trading them to a third team for cap space creates two additional $900,000 roster holds for having too few players, so we’d need to find more.

SIGN-AND-TRADE: in this method, before signing Kyrie + KD, BRK uses their RFA rights to sign Russell, and trade him to us as a $27 mil player. It resembles a free agent acquisition only because BRK doesn’t want players back - they want cap space (and maybe cheap assets) back so they have the overall cap space to sign Kyrie and KD. Again, we don’t have cap space, so we need to involve that third team. However min a sign and trade, we only need $21.72 outgoing to meet the 125% salary matching requirements.

We have talked a lot about the first method, so I wanted to mention a few points about SIGN-AND-TRADES.

1. At $21.72, Wiggins alone has the salary to match a Russell deal. Teague ($19) does not, and we don’t have a lot of comfortable pieces we can include to get over that number.
2. Remember that if we somehow sent a low number (pretend $22), taking on Russell at $27 would eat up an additional $5 mil under the lux. We don’t have a whole lot of space left to fill out our roster with anything but cheap players.
3. By doing a sign-and-trade, BRK may ask for additional compensation that would not be required if we signed him as a free agent.

So hypothetically speaking....let's say it's a S&T....with Teague only.....while we couldn't max him....we still might be able to get him more than anyone else? I know there's a bunch of FA dollars out there, but are we certain that he'll get a max offer &/or are we at least close enough that he's willing to take that little bit less to be with KAT?

Shrink...it's obvious that your not a fan of DLo & I get some of the reservations....but if we're really going to be a star seeking organization these are the calculated risks we're going to take....gotta be right of course? While I agree allstar status should have minimal impact on why we decide he's the right choice & instead we're working off solid evals from Prigioni & others that he has figured some things out & this is a similar situation to when Chauncey finally turned the corner (with us ironically), but then Detroit took the leap on him and we didn't see it as clearly.

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[Slim Tubby]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

[shrink]

So hypothetically speaking....let's say it's a S&T....with Teague only.....while we couldn't max him....we still might be able to get him more than anyone else? I know there's a bunch of FA dollars out there, but are we certain that he'll get a max offer &/or are we at least close enough that he's willing to take that little bit less to be with KAT?

If it was Teague alone, Russell’s first year could be $23.85. I suspect a team like the Suns would cut a bit more cap space and offer him the full $27.25 max.

Shrink...it's obvious that your not a fan of DLo & I get some of the reservations....but if we're really going to be a star seeking organization these are the calculated risks we're going to take....gotta be right of course? While I agree allstar status should have minimal impact on why we decide he's the right choice & instead we're working off solid evals from Prigioni & others that he has figured some things out & this is a similar situation to when Chauncey finally turned the corner (with us ironically), but then Detroit took the leap on him and we didn't see it as clearly.

I agree we should be star seeking, but I don’t trust Russell, and I think the injuries to LeVert and Dinwiddie exaggerated his one good year. The Wolves have a lot of other work to do, at a number of positions, before they are a solid playoff team. I think you keep your ears open for opportunities, but I think our impatience is causing us to pay full price in assets (youth, picks, and finances) that could be spent better elsewhere.

Now, if it’s Russell for Wiggins ....!

[Killboard]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

Im against trading Culver, Okogie and Covington. Regarding FRP, I would be reticent to send lotto picks. I would consider non lotto picks tough specially for:

1)Because getting Dlo would be a clear sign to KAT about the FO commiting to him.
2)Because the Wolves would have a core of young players who project to hit their primes down the road.

[KGdaBom]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

Even if we can move Teague without giving an asset, we will have to give up something to move Dieng. I agree with you that we should not give up Covington or Culver, but that leaves Okogie and or picks as the only other alternatives. So maybe this deal costs more than it's worth. Stay the course this year and draft a PG next.

[Killboard]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

Even if we can move Teague without giving an asset, we will have to give up something to move Dieng. I agree with you that we should not give up Covington or Culver, but that leaves Okogie and or picks as the only other alternatives. So maybe this deal costs more than it's worth. Stay the course this year and draft a PG next.

If we end up with a late lotto pick next season, we likely would'nt be getting a first tier PG. Then add that almost all PG need 2 or 3 years to run an NBA offense succesfully. Would be KAT willing to wait?

[KGdaBom]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

Even if we can move Teague without giving an asset, we will have to give up something to move Dieng. I agree with you that we should not give up Covington or Culver, but that leaves Okogie and or picks as the only other alternatives. So maybe this deal costs more than it's worth. Stay the course this year and draft a PG next.

If we end up with a late lotto pick next season, we likely would'nt be getting a first tier PG. Then add that almost all PG need 2 or 3 years to run an NBA offense succesfully. Would be KAT willing to wait?

The way I hear things is their should be a PG option late lottery next year that would be a strong candidate. If we aren't willing to wait then we need to be all in on Russell.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

I certainly won’t be upset if we somehow magically land Russell but I’ve come to a personal conclusion that I don’t want to sacrifice Culver, Okogie, Covington or future FRP’s for DeAngelo on a Max contract.

You wouldn't give up Okogie for him? I can see the other 2 for sure...but I'd probably drive Josh to the airport free of charge to get DLO..especially if he was dealt with wiggins

[old school 34]

So hypothetically speaking....let's say it's a S&T....with Teague only.....while we couldn't max him....we still might be able to get him more than anyone else? I know there's a bunch of FA dollars out there, but are we certain that he'll get a max offer &/or are we at least close enough that he's willing to take that little bit less to be with KAT?

If it was Teague alone, Russell’s first year could be $23.85. I suspect a team like the Suns would cut a bit more cap space and offer him the full $27.25 max.

Shrink...it's obvious that your not a fan of DLo & I get some of the reservations....but if we're really going to be a star seeking organization these are the calculated risks we're going to take....gotta be right of course? While I agree allstar status should have minimal impact on why we decide he's the right choice & instead we're working off solid evals from Prigioni & others that he has figured some things out & this is a similar situation to when Chauncey finally turned the corner (with us ironically), but then Detroit took the leap on him and we didn't see it as clearly.

I agree we should be star seeking, but I don’t trust Russell, and I think the injuries to LeVert and Dinwiddie exaggerated his one good year. The Wolves have a lot of other work to do, at a number of positions, before they are a solid playoff team. I think you keep your ears open for opportunities, but I think our impatience is causing us to pay full price in assets (youth, picks, and finances) that could be spent better elsewhere.

Now, if it’s Russell for Wiggins ....!

It's hard to say what Phx is going to do....I get the obvious void @ PG, Booker relationship, etc....but lots of public rumors out their that their FO doesn't view him the same as Booker...hard to say how they go there.

The thing that came out of the draft that I felt good about...is while they wanted Garland....they had a price point that they had determined before next option....love Garland but not giving Roco & taking back Hill....so I assume they've done the same with DLo...come to an eval with inside Intel & put a trade value on it....we'll go to cost "X" on him and are trying to find that path? Still don't know how much that may be, but feel better with this FO already that we will only pay appropriate to where we eval or envision him becoming? Seems pretty simple, but hasn't been a guaranteed practice around here always?

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[SO_MONEY]

For the record, if Minnesota trades Jeff Teague and Gorgui Dieng, they could actually open up cap-space in two ways....
1. Waive Cameron Reynolds (immediate promise to resign him).
2. Extend Tyus for less than his cap-hold.

3. Renounce Tyus.

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