Trade Ideas (Part III)

[NatiboyB]

So I have been doing some research into coach Beilein and I'm thinking with our current roster structure after the draft would anyone else be willing to consider moving Brandon Knight and John Henson (26 mill in expiring) for Andrew Wiggins (26 mill but about 5 years left)...Now I know his contract is horrible and his work ethic hasn't lived up to expectations but the dude has talent and I think coach can get it out of him. Also we will have reasonably low expectations. What I'm hoping is we don't magically take a leap and win too much and lose our top 10 protected 1st rd pick.

C:Tristan (expiring)/Nance/Zizic
PF:Love/Nance/Chriss (maybe bring him back)
SF:Osman/Windler
SG:Wiggins/Clarkson (expiring)/Stauskuas (thinking he may do really good thinks with his college coach)
PG:Sexton/Garland/Delly

Now I know people aren't going to be big on Wiggins and he has a horrible contract and has been known for coasting but when I look at his career it may not be that he doesn't love basketball but maybe he is a passive person....If we were to bring him on to this roster he would have a fresh start. And we all know we aren't a free agent destination but I am all for taking a swing on someone with his talent level...If it doesn't work out we at least know he will be good for 18pt 4rb 4ast and as he matures and basketball iq improves may also put forth more effort on defense. So don't flame me too hard I put some thought into it lol.

[jbk1234]

So I have been doing some research into coach Beilein and I'm thinking with our current roster structure after the draft would anyone else be willing to consider moving Brandon Knight and John Henson (26 mill in expiring) for Andrew Wiggins (26 mill but about 5 years left)...Now I know his contract is horrible and his work ethic hasn't lived up to expectations but the dude has talent and I think coach can get it out of him. Also we will have reasonably low expectations. What I'm hoping is we don't magically take a leap and win too much and lose our top 10 protected 1st rd pick.

C:Tristan (expiring)/Nance/Zizic
PF:Love/Nance/Chriss (maybe bring him back)
SF:Osman/Windler
SG:Wiggins/Clarkson (expiring)/Stauskuas (thinking he may do really good thinks with his college coach)
PG:Sexton/Garland/Delly

Now I know people aren't going to be big on Wiggins and he has a horrible contract and has been known for coasting but when I look at his career it may not be that he doesn't love basketball but maybe he is a passive person....If we were to bring him on to this roster he would have a fresh start. And we all know we aren't a free agent destination but I am all for taking a swing on someone with his talent level...If it doesn't work out we at least know he will be good for 18pt 4rb 4ast and as he matures and basketball iq improves may also put forth more effort on defense. So don't flame me too hard I put some thought into it lol.

I can't get there. Wiggins just isn't good. His handles are shaky which stops him from driving so he settles for bad mid range jumpers - most of which he misses. He has no dog in him. He has all the athleticism to be a good defender and rebounder. He's neither. They're debating making him a sixth man on the Wolves board. Imagine paying someone max money to be the sixth man.

Also, we drafted Porter Jr. who you've apparently cut from the roster already. He's the guy we're going to take a chance on at about 1/20th the salary of Wiggins.

I do think the Cavs should approach Knight and Delly about buyouts this summer. Knight might take one if we tell him there will be no PT for him season. I would not bringing Chriss and Sauce back. If we need another stealth-tank squad (is stealth even accurate here) we can troll the G League for guys and maybe find a diamond in the rough. Nwaba is the guy we probably need to bring back as Cedi is the only other wing on the roster who plays defense.

[Stillwater]

Still think with over a week before FA Cavs will find a reasonable landing spot for Smiths contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212909Cavs eat 1 yr Mozgov get Okeke(16).

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212916 Cavs eat 1 yr Roberson get Bazley(23)

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212920Cavs eat 1 yr if Whiteside who opted in and requested a trade. for Smith and Henson. Cavs get Herro (13) Miami keeps Okpala(32)

[Richfield]

C:Tristan (expiring)/Nance/Zizic
PF:Love/Nance/Chriss (maybe bring him back)
SF:Osman/Windler
SG:Wiggins/Clarkson (expiring)/Stauskuas (thinking he may do really good thinks with his college coach)
PG:Sexton/Garland/Delly

Nati! I don't have much of an opinion on the trade proposal itself, although I am a Wiggins fan and think he can help a team in some role, I'm not sure what the trade would do to our future plans and flexibility moving forward.

If this got done though, I'd ask you to start Sexton and Garland at the guard spots, at least in the beginning till it's proven a liability, I want our draft picks getting minutes so we can see what we've got.

Move Wiggins to the 3 spot, I think he's better than Cedi, or have him back up the 2 and 3 spots off the bench.. Also I'd let Windler and Porter Jr and Wiggins and Cedi fight for that starting 3 spot in training camp. Porter Jr could back up the 2 and 3 spots or start the 3 if he's ready. I also like the idea of Wiggins off the bench as a contributor, rather than somebody who has to live up to his contract. If he becomes a Cav, going to need the organization to completely ignore his contract, and not place the expectations of him becoming a main guy. That's when I think you'd get true value out of Wiggins. The contract is already messed up, but that doesn't need to mess up how the Cavs decide to use him. He will still get paid. If his agent has a problem with that role, ask him to help facilitate a trade if he can find one. Wiggins contract will become more tradable in a few years, and he'll be a better player by then too, so I don't think he loses value if we trade for him.

Again this is all contingent on the Cavs investing in these rookies and not needing a ton of cap space for free agents. KD is not walking through that door, so I'd like to see the Cavs work with what they can get, and not just say "no" to guys with bad contracts, that limits the team we can put on the floor. If Cavs have something else in mind, better plans for using cap space the next few years while the young ones develop on their rookie contracts, so be it. Can do with or without Wiggins.

I'd like to start our best 5 players whoever they are, after they earn it..

Starting G's: Best 2 out of Garland / Sexton / Porter / Wiggins

Starting SF: Best 1 out of Porter / Wiggins / Cedi / Windler

Starting PF: Best 1 out of Love / (Thompson when Love is hurt)

Starting C: Best 1 of Nance / Thompson

I think the guys above are the possible starters out of that hypothetical roster, but make everybody earn their spots. Cavs should stop looking at salaries, especially when they know they have bad contracts.

Everybody else on the roster I think of as definite backups. To fill gaps as needed.

[NatiboyB]

Don't know how I forgot my guy Porter Jr...this will be a good situation for him

So I have been doing some research into coach Beilein and I'm thinking with our current roster structure after the draft would anyone else be willing to consider moving Brandon Knight and John Henson (26 mill in expiring) for Andrew Wiggins (26 mill but about 5 years left)...Now I know his contract is horrible and his work ethic hasn't lived up to expectations but the dude has talent and I think coach can get it out of him. Also we will have reasonably low expectations. What I'm hoping is we don't magically take a leap and win too much and lose our top 10 protected 1st rd pick.

C:Tristan (expiring)/Nance/Zizic
PF:Love/Nance/Chriss (maybe bring him back)
SF:Osman/Windler
SG:Wiggins/Clarkson (expiring)/Stauskuas (thinking he may do really good thinks with his college coach)
PG:Sexton/Garland/Delly

Now I know people aren't going to be big on Wiggins and he has a horrible contract and has been known for coasting but when I look at his career it may not be that he doesn't love basketball but maybe he is a passive person....If we were to bring him on to this roster he would have a fresh start. And we all know we aren't a free agent destination but I am all for taking a swing on someone with his talent level...If it doesn't work out we at least know he will be good for 18pt 4rb 4ast and as he matures and basketball iq improves may also put forth more effort on defense. So don't flame me too hard I put some thought into it lol.

I can't get there. Wiggins just isn't good. His handles are shaky which stops him from driving so he settles for bad mid range jumpers - most of which he misses. He has no dog in him. He has all the athleticism to be a good defender and rebounder. He's neither. They're debating making him a sixth man on the Wolves board. Imagine paying someone max money to be the sixth man.

Also, we drafted Porter Jr. who you've apparently cut from the roster already. He's the guy we're going to take a chance on at about 1/20th the salary of Wiggins.

I do think the Cavs should approach Knight and Delly about buyouts this summer. Knight might take one if we tell him there will be no PT for him season. I would not bringing Chriss and Sauce back. If we need another stealth-tank squad (is stealth even accurate here) we can troll the G League for guys and maybe find a diamond in the rough. Nwaba is the guy we probably need to bring back as Cedi is the only other wing on the roster who plays defense.

[gflem]

Still think with over a week before FA Cavs will find a reasonable landing spot for Smiths contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212909Cavs eat 1 yr Mozgov get Okeke(16).

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212916 Cavs eat 1 yr Roberson get Bazley(23)

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212920Cavs eat 1 yr if Whiteside who opted in and requested a trade. for Smith and Henson. Cavs get Herro (13) Miami keeps Okpala(32)

Im in for the bolded, but Miami can keep Herro and we get Okpala.

[Stillwater]

Still think with over a week before FA Cavs will find a reasonable landing spot for Smiths contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212909Cavs eat 1 yr Mozgov get Okeke(16).

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212916 Cavs eat 1 yr Roberson get Bazley(23)

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212920Cavs eat 1 yr if Whiteside who opted in and requested a trade. for Smith and Henson. Cavs get Herro (13) Miami keeps Okpala(32)

Im in for the bolded, but Miami can keep Herro and we get Okpala.

Yeah Cavs are not eating James Johnsons deal for an early 2nd even if it is Okpala who could be better than his draft position long term when they could get yet another elite shooter in Herro who Beilein would turn into a allstar

[jbk1234]

Still think with over a week before FA Cavs will find a reasonable landing spot for Smiths contract.
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212909Cavs eat 1 yr Mozgov get Okeke(16).

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212916 Cavs eat 1 yr Roberson get Bazley(23)

: https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7212920Cavs eat 1 yr if Whiteside who opted in and requested a trade. for Smith and Henson. Cavs get Herro (13) Miami keeps Okpala(32)

Im in for the bolded, but Miami can keep Herro and we get Okpala.

Yeah Cavs are not eating James Johnsons deal for an early 2nd even if it is Okpala who could be better than his draft position long term when they could get yet another elite shooter in Herro who Beilein would turn into a allstar

The Heat saddled up that horse, let them ride it. I'm not good with either guy.

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[Stillwater]

[/b]
Im in for the bolded, but Miami can keep Herro and we get Okpala.

Yeah Cavs are not eating James Johnsons deal for an early 2nd even if it is Okpala who could be better than his draft position long term when they could get yet another elite shooter in Herro who Beilein would turn into a allstar

The Heat saddled up that horse, let them ride it. I'm not good with either guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

bit of an overpay unless herro is an allstar guard which he could be then its worrh it.
but yeah i think 90% odds are hes moved for futures or cut in next 8 days unless cavs can get Okeke for a yr of mozgov or maybe They could pry nas little from portland for turner.

[jbk1234]

Yeah Cavs are not eating James Johnsons deal for an early 2nd even if it is Okpala who could be better than his draft position long term when they could get yet another elite shooter in Herro who Beilein would turn into a allstar

The Heat saddled up that horse, let them ride it. I'm not good with either guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

bit of an overpay unless herro is an allstar guard which he could be then its worrh it.
but yeah i think 90% odds are hes moved for futures or cut in next 8 days unless cavs can get Okeke for a yr of mozgov or maybe They could pry nas little from portland for turner.

You called some guys like Shamet last year so I'll give credit where it's due. That said, you've got half the guys who were drafted on Thursday as potential all stars and that's obviously not going to happen. I'm just no sold on Herro.

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[Stillwater]

The Heat saddled up that horse, let them ride it. I'm not good with either guy.

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bit of an overpay unless herro is an allstar guard which he could be then its worrh it.
but yeah i think 90% odds are hes moved for futures or cut in next 8 days unless cavs can get Okeke for a yr of mozgov or maybe They could pry nas little from portland for turner.

You called some guys like Shamet last year so I'll give credit where it's due. That said, you've got half the guys who were drafted on Thursday as potential all stars and that's obviously not going to happen. I'm just no sold on Herro.

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Yeah a lot of my ranking these prospects is a mix of what I think and what I perceive the Cavs thinking given their situation roster construction coaching schemes etc.
I am also not sold Herro was anywhere near worth the 13th pick , but his shooting was legit to the point of being similar projections to Klay Thompson and if any team needing shooters can get one for eating a bad deal they would look at him for sure.

[substancej]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7213232
Cavs get a solid veteran shooting guard, possible starting small forward in Valentine, dump Love's crappy contract, and find a place for JR.

[jbk1234]

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7213232
Cavs get a solid veteran shooting guard, possible starting small forward in Valentine, dump Love's crappy contract, and find a place for JR.

Neither team is doing this. The Cavs have drafted 4 guards/ wings in the first round over the last two years. They want those guys on the court. Lavine is one of the worst defenders in the NBA so he couldn't play next to either Sexton or Garland over the long haul. The Cavs have $58M in expiring contracts already. They're not a F.A. destination. They won't be motivated to get out of Love's contract until 2021, if ever.

One of the Bull's best young best players plays PF and they're a young team not looking to trade their young guys.

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[jbk1234]

Sounds like the Cavs could've gotten a first in the draft but the luxury tax is a bigger concern than the F.O. let on.
https://cavaliersnation.com/2019/06/25/report-cavs-turned-multiple-jr-smith-trades-netted-1stround-picks/

[DusterBuster]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Don't worry Cavs fans, not here to offer trades - and yes - I understand that the Cavs may not be motivated to trade him and so they can and will ask the moon for him. Just passing along some info that was mentioned on Portland radio via a Cavs beat writer....

*Cue Cav fans telling me why this beat reporter is a joke in 3.... 2... 1....*

[Richfield]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Don't worry Cavs fans, not here to offer trades - and yes - I understand that the Cavs may not be motivated to trade him and so they can and will ask the moon for him. Just passing along some info that was mentioned on Portland radio via a Cavs beat writer....

*Cue Cav fans telling me why this beat reporter is a joke in 3.... 2... 1....*

Nice speculation there from a Cavs beat writer. Chris Fedor perhaps?

Who is Brandon Sprague?

It's a nice story, and that was the feeling when Channing Frye said that, that he may be saying it for KLove's sake.

But I don't think that changes the equations. Unless you added up enough Cavs assets to part with McCollum.

Also, I didn't want Evan Turner before (even though I like him for Boston or another team). But now that he's gone, you have even less to work with, no?

[DusterBuster]

Who is Brandon Sprague?

Radio host for the mid-day show on Portland's biggest sports station.

Also, I didn't want Evan Turner before (even though I like him for Boston or another team). But now that he's gone, you have even less to work with, no?

They still have Leonard and Harkless' expiring contracts. Bazemore (the player Portland traded ET for) has an expiring contract that's ever so slightly bigger than Turner's was (by about 600k I believe), but Portland can't combine him with another player in a trade for some time I believe. Plus they just held a presser introducing him, so I don't suspect they'd just flip him immediately even if they could.

Portland's still got assets to play with, but long-story short, you're correct they don't really have pieces to make salaries match at Love's huge contract at this time without absolutely gutting the team. At least not until early in the season once that trade restriction comes off of Bazemore and they can combine him with other players like Leonard, Collins or Harkless.

And for the millionth time, Cavs aren't getting McCollum or even someone of McCollum's level in return for Love. If you keep that as you're expectation, you're gonna be in a rude awakening for whatever return he eventually brings... be that Portland or any other team. Unless Cleveland just keeps him for the entirety of his contract, in that case.... good on ya.

[Richfield]

Personally I want no part of Harkless. Leonard seems like a head case, and I think he's pretty limited. But I did enjoy seeing him have some success in the playoffs last year. Still too raw though after all these years.

Not interested in Bazemore either, I agree with Portland he belongs on a playoff team. Cavs have plenty of guys wanting minutes at that position, he wouldn't be the desired upgrade to replace any of them.

Collins i'm still a little curious about, since he's young and has shown some flashes. Of all the guys mentioned, he's a start, but Blazers would still have a long way to go.

Either way, rooting for Portland to do well next year. Always been a Lillard fan. McCollum too, only learned last season he's from Ohio. Wishing Nurkic a full recovery, fan of him too. Love his toughness. Hoping you guys can find more front court scoring, some baseline jumper guys like a Morris twin, and maybe an Ariza type trustworthy unselfish guy with experience before the playoffs next year. Or better. Plus your coach never gets enough credit imo.

[DusterBuster]

Personally I want no part of Harkless. Leonard seems like a head case, and I think he's pretty limited. But I did enjoy seeing him have some success in the playoffs last year. Still too raw though after all these years.

Not interested in Bazemore either, I agree with Portland he belongs on a playoff team. Cavs have plenty of guys wanting minutes at that position, he wouldn't be the desired upgrade to replace any of them.

Collins i'm still a little curious about, since he's young and has shown some flashes. Of all the guys mentioned, he's a start, but Blazers would still have a long way to go.

Either way, rooting for Portland to do well next year. Always been a Lillard fan. McCollum too, only learned last season he's from Ohio. Wishing Nurkic a full recovery, fan of him too. Love his toughness. Hoping you guys can find more front court scoring, some baseline jumper guys like a Morris twin, and maybe an Ariza type trustworthy unselfish guy with experience before the playoffs next year. Or better. Plus your coach never gets enough credit imo.

Leonard absolutely is not a head case, the Blazers don't have any head cases on the team honestly. He is finally starting to come around and show signs of life, but you just have to accept him for what he is as a floor spacing big and 6 hard fouls. You're absolutely right though, at this point in his career, he should have shown way more if he was ever going to be a major impact or quality starter material for a team. That said, he's probably gotten to the point where he's a solid reserve though, he actually had a good season last year and was playing well before the signed Kanter and he got pushed down the rotation.

That's all kinda besides the point, you're talking about Bazemore, Harkless and Leonard in a long-term manner when its obvious the Cavs biggest interest in them would clearly be their expiring contracts. In all honesty, the Cavs best hope for return on Love is going to be expiring deals, maybe a young guy and a pick. Love's age, contract and injury history are going to hold him back from returning a player of equal quality - that's a pretty logically conclusion to make if you look at Love unbiasedly. I mean, you can look at Conley for that fact. No one questions Conley's talent, but at his age, injury history and huge contract - they were only able to return expiring contracts that were attached to ok/mediocre players, a middling young prospect and 2 FRP's that will likely both end up 20 and below. Mike Conley only has 2 more years on his deal.... Kevin has 4. If that's all Conley could return, then it's kinda silly to think/expect Love could return more.

For what it's worth though, I would probably move Collins for Love. I'm easily one of the few Blazer fans who would be OK with that move, but I would do it if a deal could be constructed that made sense. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, without Turners contract and with Bazemore's current trade restrictions - its hard to match salaries with a deal that doesn't completely gut Portland's roster. Without Baze's contract to use, Harkless and Leonard are a necessity to get salaries close, then you can add in Collins and the deal would work salary-wise, but Portland would have literally no C's left on the team since Nurk will be out to start the season from his leg injury.

It's actually possible Harkless and Leonard for Love may work from a salary perspective - they're a combined 23mil and Love is making 29mil once the new salaries are set... not sure on the math as it would be super close to the limit of salaries matching. If those two did work, Portland could offer them and 2 FRP's in 2020 and 2022. Which the 2022 pick would be particularly valuable even if it's in the 20's since that'll be the double-dip draft when the NBA opens it back up to drafting HS prospects - which I think fairly offsets not including a current prospect.

But the bottom line is that the Cavs need to be motivated to move Love - either by themselves or a trade request. If Cavs fans here at RealGM are any indication of the teams FO's viewpoint, they aren't interested in moving him unless they're getting blown away by an offer.

[Richfield]

..

The other reason it makes sense to keep Love other than his obvious attributes, is the Cavs don't have anybody for the future in his spot. Collins nor Leonard would be that guy either, and I think you're better off not offering Harkless at all if you're trying to get a deal done.

That's why the Conley comparisons don't work for me, and probably other Cavs fans. Memphis has possibly the next Derrick Rose, or at least a high potential PG coming in from the draft. While Conley could help him learn the ropes, it just made sense to hand the ball to Ja now, and have him go full time as soon as possible. Love is different in that our future players are all at other positions, and Love's passing and leadership ability to stretch the floor, but especially his passing though is going to only create more opportunities for our young guys to grow. He's going to significantly help their development, and their chance to experience some on court success, which is a great motivator to young guys to keep grinding and working hard and getting better. When teams go full tank, I think players get disheartened that their franchise doesn't want to win, except a select few like perhaps Sexton who is 100% no matter what. But it's still the way Love helps the offense flow that is why Cavs benefit from keeping him. It's a shame LeBron wouldn't play off the ball more or the rest of the country could have seen some of the KLove that Cavs fans saw last year. So to the Cavs, Love is worth more than what the Conley trade returned to the Grizzlies. Not saying he's a higher level player, it just has to do with team situations and the positions they play relative to their future players.

And no offense with "head case". I probably should have said passionate. I wouldn't want to be on the bad side if Leonard ever lost his temper. That can be a good thing for a team to have too, under the right circumstances. Given that he is more comfortable as of last year, I'm hoping he can experience a little more success and help you guys in the playoffs again this year. He's just not probably the best fit for a rebuilding team right now. Who knows, maybe he's starting to figure some things out and will keep improving.

It's nice to see some of you guys coming around on a second second rounder. If you pushed them further into the future and took off all protections, or very limited protection, they'd probably be worth more and who knows if the Cavs would want to listen.

Another thing about Love's value other than mentioned above, salary wise, that contract only gets more valuable every year. 4 or 5 years out, wherever were are now, it looks like a pretty bad contract. But if we use him for the above reasons for another year, that becomes 3 or 4. And other than his age and injury risks obviously, the contract itself increases in value the longer we hold on to him. Seems like a good guy to have around for a rebuild, especially since he seemed to be having a lot of fun last season. At least until we get our stud PF of the future somewhere.