Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[SOUL]

And for love of the god tell me single reason why da hell should anybody be exited about Fultz? Did he filmed new insta story with now walking across the floor?
Or he reposted something from times when he wasn't twitching like bad lag on sims 1?
Him and freaking Isaac are now going to be 3rd year players, yet still treated like toddlers.
Should we replace bench seats with baby carrier seats and have zone where mommies can breast -feed them during time outs?

Who is treating Isaac like a toddler? You realize part of the reason our defense was so good this year was that we didn't treat Isaac like a toddler and gave him tough defensive assignments.. same with Gordon along with Vuc, they all held it down. Thank god you aren't the scout or GM.. giving up on 21 year olds and turning us into the Billy King Nets

Vuc at 21 was scoring 5 ppg as a rookie as he learned the ropes in the NBA.. stop acting like there is no development in the NBA past the rookie year.. that's not babying it's called investing and giving opportunity granted they take advantage of it.

[pepe1991]

And for love of the god tell me single reason why da hell should anybody be exited about Fultz? Did he filmed new insta story with now walking across the floor?
Or he reposted something from times when he wasn't twitching like bad lag on sims 1?
Him and freaking Isaac are now going to be 3rd year players, yet still treated like toddlers.
Should we replace bench seats with baby carrier seats and have zone where mommies can breast -feed them during time outs?

Who is treating Isaac like a toddler? You realize part of the reason our defense was so good this year was that we didn't treat Isaac like a toddler and gave him tough defensive assignments.. same with Gordon along with Vuc, they all held it down. Thank god you aren't the scout or GM.. giving up on 21 year olds and turning us into the Billy King Nets

Vuc at 21 was scoring 5 ppg as a rookie as he learned the ropes in the NBA.. stop acting like there is no development in the NBA past the rookie year.. that's not babying it's called investing and giving opportunity granted they take advantage of it.

You just called seasons where Vučević averaged 16 points -10 rebounds " struggling years".
Yet somehow calling second year player ,who is 9 ppg starter - mediocre player is insulting to you.

Or God forbid questioning guy who missed 132 out of 164 games .

I have zero desire to dance this jazz about young players again, you are type of poster that needed 4 years to figure Payton sucks at basketball. Something that it took year for lot of non Magic fans, and lot of Magic fans to figure.
Just like there is no place for 6'3 non shooting PG in nba, there is no starting place for C who can't set pick, can't post up and in general prefers to shoot ,yet can't shoot from any range ( including FT% ) and just like 6'11 guy with no ballhandling skills or advanced passing or shooting skills will ever be SF ( like it was argued year and half ago) or will ever be anything special.


Every year there is new shiny toy here that some Magic fans overhype and act like it will be best thing ever. Almost every year every young player here is defended with same words " he is just 2_ years old" ,for most of that players, being young really didn't mean much. Most of them got old(er) and never really improved.
Remember when Harkless was hot topic ? Or how Payton is better than Tony Parker was at 23 because he can " pass way better and he'll develop shot soon".

I can easly cherry-pick 10 times when this whole forum was attacking less entusiastic posters for being "haters" ,where it turned out that less hyped fans were 100% right.
Don't really have to go much in past, revisiting topics how Booker is worst than Hezonja, Payton is better than Tony Parker, Gordon is new Paul George, just stronger ( or Kawhi, pick one) , Bamba''s college career was better than Embiid = better player, Oladipo's new Wade and other nonsense is enough.

I'll never forget epic thread how Elfrid Payton helped some poster fall in love with basketball again.

[SOUL]

And for love of the god tell me single reason why da hell should anybody be exited about Fultz? Did he filmed new insta story with now walking across the floor?
Or he reposted something from times when he wasn't twitching like bad lag on sims 1?
Him and freaking Isaac are now going to be 3rd year players, yet still treated like toddlers.
Should we replace bench seats with baby carrier seats and have zone where mommies can breast -feed them during time outs?

Who is treating Isaac like a toddler? You realize part of the reason our defense was so good this year was that we didn't treat Isaac like a toddler and gave him tough defensive assignments.. same with Gordon along with Vuc, they all held it down. Thank god you aren't the scout or GM.. giving up on 21 year olds and turning us into the Billy King Nets

Vuc at 21 was scoring 5 ppg as a rookie as he learned the ropes in the NBA.. stop acting like there is no development in the NBA past the rookie year.. that's not babying it's called investing and giving opportunity granted they take advantage of it.

You just called seasons where Vučević averaged 16 points -10 rebounds " struggling years".
Yet somehow calling second year player ,who is 9 ppg starter - mediocre player is insulting to you.

Or God forbid questioning guy who missed 132 out of 164 games .

I have zero desire to dance this jazz about young players again, you are type of poster that needed 4 years to figure Payton sucks at basketball. Something that it took year for lot of non Magic fans, and lot of Magic fans to figure.
Just like there is no place for 6'3 non shooting PG in nba, there is no starting place for C who can't set pick, can't post up and in general prefers to shoot ,yet can't shoot from any range ( including FT% ) and just like 6'11 guy with no ballhandling skills or advanced passing or shooting skills will ever be SF ( like it was argued year and half ago) or will ever be anything special.


Every year there is new shiny toy here that some Magic fans overhype and act like it will be best thing ever. Almost every year every young player here is defended with same words " he is just 2_ years old" ,for most of that players, being young really didn't mean much. Most of them got old(er) and never really improved.
Remember when Harkless was hot topic ? Or how Payton is better than Tony Parker was at 23 because he can " pass way better and he'll develop shot soon".

They are struggling years when DJ Augustin and Elfrid "sucky" Payton both had higher win shares than our "franchise player who has never struggled". Go back to any team the last 5-6 years and its always the top 1-2 best/franchise players who are on top of the win shares list. It shouldn't take our best player 4 years to get back on that list if he wasn't efficient or very helpful. Which is why so many people were shocked/happy/surprised that he was providing so much impact for us because it disappeared for literally 3 seasons. And if we're going to discredit Elfrid or any young player getting stats at the end of the year, then what good is Vuc's 16/8 or 14/10 or whatever stats he put up?

Will you eat crow on Trae Young? Dennis Smith Jr? One you said was trash and the other you advocated we trade for.. but I have the feeling you won't because you are biased and once you've made up your mind, you don't change.

Isaac is already better than Harkless was ever when he was here and Bamba has 47 games worth of playing with the most garbage bench backcourt in the NBA. I will proudly be patient with those guys.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Definitely leaked from Vuc’s camp to try and get him a bigger contract. Basically telling Sacramento that’s the buy in don’t even come to the table with less. Veey interesting as there’s plenty reports saying Kong’s willing/know they’ll have to pay close to max. If Vlade does offer 4 year 105-110M what happens.

If vuc stays have to hope he can continue where he’s at, TRoss re signs and we have big time improvement

[SD2042]

I honestly get what you are saying and even agree a little bit. But how many teams actually run their offense through the center position? Ross to me is an important player just because I do believe he is our bench scoring. Without him who scores in the second unit?

Without question, scoring is a big issue the Magic needs to address. I'm not too sure throwing DLo the money is the answer given where this team stands right now. There are players out there that can best fit this team that can essentially help address the scoring department. To T-Ross, I have respect for what he's done for the Magic as well. I'm thinking he could be moving on as well. I've heard rumors of the Lakers looking into him at the moment.

Back on topic: Here's a list of scorers I think the Magic should take a look into as well:

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/caldwke01.html

Tyler Dorsey
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dorsety01.html

Jeremy Lamb
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lambje01.html

I watched KCP alot for years. He is terribly inefficient at times. But, can get hot. What he has over the others is he can be a solid all around player. With the Pistons, he would take over games by dishing out up to 10 assists while playing solid defense. I think he was misused with Lakers. If Ross bolts, I bet KCP can be had cheap.

That's my thinking with KCP. With the way he was used in the Lakers system, he didn't benefit from the situation game wise. And all the turmoil the Lakers were dealing with this past season didn't help matters. My thinking on KCP is that if used properly, he could be a great help to the Magic with his abilities. The big questions will be how much and how many years?

[j-ragg]

Conspiracy/wishful thinking scenario:

Kings want to offer Vuc 4/88, 22 million flat per year. Vuc’s agent wants more.

Kings say okay then we’re fine re-signing our own FA Harry Barnes to use the cap then if you won’t take that offer. Kings leak 4/88 plan to Dave Carmichael.

Vuc’s agent says okay two can play that game, leaks that Orlando will offer a deal something over 90 million.

The end.

[fendilim]

So.. management seems content bringing back the whole for another round. Lol

[OrlandO]

Kings might not be done with WCS...

Read on Twitter

[The Real Dalic]

So.. management seems content bringing back the whole for another round. Lol

Just shore up back PG and PF and try to make a trade for a star if it presents itself and we should be better than last year. Even if we don't make a trade.

Also, we get Bamba back as well as Chuma and Fultz a little bit later. The one person that scares me about leaving is Ross. Hopefully he tries again with us. He was an important bench player.

[p0peye]

So.. management seems content bringing back the whole for another round. Lol

Just shore up back PG and PF and try to make a trade for a star if it presents itself and we should be better than last year. Even if we don't make a trade.

Also, we get Bamba back as well as Chuma and Fultz a little bit later. The one person that scares me about leaving is Ross. Hopefully he tries again with us. He was an important bench player.

Yeah, I kinda consider Vučević and Ross as a package here - we should either resign both or none to have a direction.

PF position - or AG's if you like - seems eerily familiar. Just like with Vučević and Bamba, AG now has Isaac and Chuma - all of whom project to be best playing PF.

Potentially, if we sign Vučević on decreasing contract as well, we would have 2 trade baits going forward. We could be in play for star on max/supermax contract, whether it is disgruntled player or team trying to shed salary and rebuild. Hypothetically, something like Vučević&AG for Paul George or Westbrook.

[pepe1991]

Who is treating Isaac like a toddler? You realize part of the reason our defense was so good this year was that we didn't treat Isaac like a toddler and gave him tough defensive assignments.. same with Gordon along with Vuc, they all held it down. Thank god you aren't the scout or GM.. giving up on 21 year olds and turning us into the Billy King Nets

Vuc at 21 was scoring 5 ppg as a rookie as he learned the ropes in the NBA.. stop acting like there is no development in the NBA past the rookie year.. that's not babying it's called investing and giving opportunity granted they take advantage of it.

You just called seasons where Vučević averaged 16 points -10 rebounds " struggling years".
Yet somehow calling second year player ,who is 9 ppg starter - mediocre player is insulting to you.

Or God forbid questioning guy who missed 132 out of 164 games .

I have zero desire to dance this jazz about young players again, you are type of poster that needed 4 years to figure Payton sucks at basketball. Something that it took year for lot of non Magic fans, and lot of Magic fans to figure.
Just like there is no place for 6'3 non shooting PG in nba, there is no starting place for C who can't set pick, can't post up and in general prefers to shoot ,yet can't shoot from any range ( including FT% ) and just like 6'11 guy with no ballhandling skills or advanced passing or shooting skills will ever be SF ( like it was argued year and half ago) or will ever be anything special.


Every year there is new shiny toy here that some Magic fans overhype and act like it will be best thing ever. Almost every year every young player here is defended with same words " he is just 2_ years old" ,for most of that players, being young really didn't mean much. Most of them got old(er) and never really improved.
Remember when Harkless was hot topic ? Or how Payton is better than Tony Parker was at 23 because he can " pass way better and he'll develop shot soon".

They are struggling years when DJ Augustin and Elfrid "sucky" Payton both had higher win shares than our "franchise player who has never struggled". Go back to any team the last 5-6 years and its always the top 1-2 best/franchise players who are on top of the win shares list. It shouldn't take our best player 4 years to get back on that list if he wasn't efficient or very helpful. Which is why so many people were shocked/happy/surprised that he was providing so much impact for us because it disappeared for literally 3 seasons. And if we're going to discredit Elfrid or any young player getting stats at the end of the year, then what good is Vuc's 16/8 or 14/10 or whatever stats he put up?

Will you eat crow on Trae Young? Dennis Smith Jr? One you said was trash and the other you advocated we trade for.. but I have the feeling you won't because you are biased and once you've made up your mind, you don't change.

Isaac is already better than Harkless was ever when he was here and Bamba has 47 games worth of playing with the most garbage bench backcourt in the NBA. I will proudly be patient with those guys.

funniest part about Trae Young is that poseters that +1 you happend to be same posters who were pissing on Hawks trades and moves 6 days ago.
Why should i eat crow on him ? Lower efficiency chucker who is below average shooter from range and horrendus defender? Where i was wrong? 32% for 3 and worst defender among guards in whole league ? Maybe you should eat crows for overhyping him.

If we are going to call out posters, where is Skin ? Dončić is less athletic Hezonja ,according to his exeprt opinion.

You and Payton? 4 freaking years of noise and empty words how he is good to the point where guy , entering 5 year, does not have contract and franklly i didn't see any team showing interest for him yet.

What's up with Dennis Smith ? He still is on same boat as Isaac , Lonzo Ball, Jackson and few other 2017 picks. underwhelming overdrafted player in hindsight. Difference ? Posters will agree Lonzo, Jackson and Dennis are bad yet act that Isaac is not in that category, despite all evidence show he is literally the same type of overdrafted prospect like them. Why? Because it's too much to ask for objective opinion if guy wears your favorite team's shirt i guess.

Isaac is already better than Harkless was ever when he was here and Bamba has 47 games worth of playing with the most garbage bench backcourt in the NBA. I will proudly be patient with those guys

So we went from " Kiriljenko" to Harkless comparison in one year ? That just proves my point .

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Kings might not be done with WCS...

Read on Twitter

I don’t see why they wouldn’t extend a QO to him. They also have to protect in case no one entertains the Sacramento offer.

[Knightro]

Total idle speculation here...

The Magic will resign Vucevic and Ross and then shift their focus to trading away Gordon for the best PG/SG/SF they can get with an eye towards Okeke eventually filling those AG minutes at SF/PF around midseason.

[Uncommon]

Total idle speculation here...

The Magic will resign Vucevic and Ross and then shift their focus to trading away Gordon for the best PG/SG/SF they can get with an eye towards Okeke eventually filling those AG minutes at SF/PF around midseason.

Okeke might miss most of the season. If we trade AG, it would leave a huge hole at the forward position. I do think we eventually trade Gordon, but not this year.

[Skybox]

Total idle speculation here...

The Magic will resign Vucevic and Ross and then shift their focus to trading away Gordon for the best PG/SG/SF they can get with an eye towards Okeke eventually filling those AG minutes at SF/PF around midseason.

I am a fan of AG and of Bamba, but this makes sense to me...I'd be happy to keep either or both, but if Vuc is wrapped up we have powerful options in our quest to find that star we lack via trade. This does not equal "giving up on them" or "not seeing their value" it's asset management and staying fluid to be ready when opportunity hits. We are now getting in position to trade 2 or 3 "goods" for a "great" without any desperation as we can continue to improve internally as our young guys improve. Blowing up everything to chase (and overpay) DLO or Brogdon would be an irresponsible risk, IMO. Trades are much more controllable than bidding wars over newly crowned stars.

[Instincts]

This craters both the value of Bamba and Vuc being a 4 year deal. If Bamba starts to become the star people think he can become, Vuc is making a giant sum of money to be a back-up, so teams won't offer anything for him. If Bamba is just good and playing behind Vuc, no one will offer anything for Bamba because they know he is stuck behind Vuc. Horrible plan.

Either one of your scenarios, any scenario in which Bamba becomes a good player, is what they call a high quality problem and would be a positive game changer for this franchise

[Instincts]

$20mil/yr would be amazing to me.

So in theory this is a really great contract by your standards if it’s only 2.5 shy of an amazing contract?

I’ll take that.

Yes and when you see a guy like Barnes getting 80M (20M/year), I can say that 90M is amazing without any doubt.

Now it's fime to focus on bringing TRoss back, what are your definitions of amazing contract for us?

If Vuch resigns, Ross at any amount necessary for 2 years - maintains cap flexibility for big 2021 free agency class. I’ll say 2 years - 38mil to incentivize the short deal

[OrlandO]

Kings might not be done with WCS...

Read on Twitter

I don’t see why they wouldn’t extend a QO to him. They also have to protect in case no one entertains the Sacramento offer.

Because he publicly told them he wants to leave. They can hold him hostage, but that's usually not the best idea when you're dealing with a dumb player. He's not even a good player... easily replaceable.

[basketballRob]

So in theory this is a really great contract by your standards if it’s only 2.5 shy of an amazing contract?

I’ll take that.

Yes and when you see a guy like Barnes getting 80M (20M/year), I can say that 90M is amazing without any doubt.

Now it's fime to focus on bringing TRoss back, what are your definitions of amazing contract for us?

If Vuch resigns, Ross at any amount necessary for 2 years - maintains cap flexibility for big 2021 free agency class. I’ll say 2 years - 38mil to incentivize the short deal

Well that would put us over the tax threshold but it's not my money. I guess the could always stretch Mozgov.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Total idle speculation here...

The Magic will resign Vucevic and Ross and then shift their focus to trading away Gordon for the best PG/SG/SF they can get with an eye towards Okeke eventually filling those AG minutes at SF/PF around midseason.

I thought about this as well. However, it doesn’t make sense at all. The timeframe is waiting another year before this plan could make sense. Okeke won’t likely be playing at all this season. Why would WeHam resign everyone to larger contracts, hoping to push for the playoffs again, while not addressing the back court in both the draft and FA? Christ, these guys burn so much time it’s unbelievable. Just another year of waiting to make moves.