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Political Roundtable Part XXVI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#301 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:50 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Well, there is the inevitable jump. I don't agree with your definition - therefore I am an R shrill and fascist. Reason #1 why I disagree with the language.

This allows an incomplete definition of the problem to be the defining and only focus on one small part of the problem. Same way that the incredibly stupid authors of the GND have derailed hope of solving that problem due to their denialist nature. Reason #2 why I disagree with the language.

In the same . The underfunded holding camps are only a very small part of the problem. The bigger problems to be solved are:
1) how to keep these folks from leaving their country
2) how to keep them alive during their trek (way more die than in camps)
3) how to keep them alive at the border (way more die than in camps)
4) how to keep them alive as they cross (way more die than in camps)
5) AND LASTLY HOW TO COME UP WITH A STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH THEM WHEN THEY ARE HERE. LAST!

By using the language you do - you let both parties off the hook. And if you want to go to this is only a Trump and R problem, that this has no historical root - then we can agree to disagree and stop talking - as you would say - full stop. Reason #3 why I disagree with the language.

And did we learn nothing from the Hillary campaign? Deplorables didn't work, it was a massive f'up in labeling. Reason #4 why I disagree with the language.

And lastly, I believe that concentration camp language should be historically linked only to Nazi camps - but this is an emotional argument. And we aren't going to agree on this through your use of logic. Not withstanding this - the above should be enough to understand why I viscerally disagree.


What does ANY of this have to do with the conversation we were just having? And why the gratuitous anti-AOC alt-right propaganda? She's going to be your President some day, have more respect.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#302 » by dckingsfan » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:[*]

I am using the historically accurate definition of concentration camp that any rational human being would, particularly one who had bothered to at least read, oh, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, for example. *You* are the one making stuff up about concentration camps being specifically about Germany, which isn't even true in the dictionary definition you cited. There is a larger story here that you are intentionally ignoring for some reason. My take, from context, is you support the GOP and apparently believe the ends justifies the means. So rather than pivot immediately to "concentration camps is not accurate because these deliberately target children and are in fact worse but whatever the important thing is to stop our march towards fascist totalitarianism by completely dismantling the party that DEFENDS THIS" you quibble over semantics. Tell me I'm wrong. Do you think what we're doing to these kids is a human rights violation or not? Do you think intentionally caging children to punish their parents is ok? Do you think we're doing enough as a country RIGHT NOW to end this practice IMMEDIATELY? If not, why argue for ten pages about semantics? Especially because you're flat out wrong about this. Full stop.

Well, there is the inevitable jump. I don't agree with your definition - therefore I am an R shrill and fascist. Reason #1 why I disagree with the language.

This allows an incomplete definition of the problem to be the defining and only focus on one small part of the problem. Same way that the incredibly stupid authors of the GND have derailed hope of solving that problem due to their denialist nature. Reason #2 why I disagree with the language.

In the same . The underfunded holding camps are only a very small part of the problem. The bigger problems to be solved are:
1) how to keep these folks from leaving their country
2) how to keep them alive during their trek (way more die than in camps)
3) how to keep them alive at the border (way more die than in camps)
4) how to keep them alive as they cross (way more die than in camps)
5) AND LASTLY HOW TO COME UP WITH A STRATEGY TO DEAL WITH THEM WHEN THEY ARE HERE. LAST!

By using the language you do - you let both parties off the hook. And if you want to go to this is only a Trump and R problem, that this has no historical root - then we can agree to disagree and stop talking - as you would say - full stop. Reason #3 why I disagree with the language.

And did we learn nothing from the Hillary campaign? Deplorables didn't work, it was a massive f'up in labeling. Reason #4 why I disagree with the language.

And lastly, I believe that concentration camp language should be historically linked only to Nazi camps - but this is an emotional argument. And we aren't going to agree on this through your use of logic. Not withstanding this - the above should be enough to understand why I viscerally disagree.

What does ANY of this have to do with the conversation we were just having? And why the gratuitous anti-AOC alt-right propaganda? She's going to be your President some day, have more respect.

Don't use language like "concentration camp", then try to link the Rs to Nazis - it doesn't help get anything done and it focuses us on solving the wrong problems. The problem to focus on is an overall immigration strategy and getting Trump the hell out of the White House. Your approach helps solve neither of those problems, IMO.

As to AOC and the GND authors. The GND as a poor baseline for attacking climate change. It is denialist at its core and obfuscates any kind of go forward strategy by tying it to issues that have nothing to do with climate change. Do you want the Rs to come up with a climate change proposal tied to abortion. Of course not. And if you are immediately labeled alt-right for criticizing this really poor piece of work - then I just don't know what to say.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#303 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:01 pm

How is this not the end of American Democracy and one person one vote? I don't think I have ever been this angry about a SCOTUS decision. The stolen SCOTUS seat paying-off big time for Republicans
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#304 » by gtn130 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:17 pm

closg00 wrote:How is this not the end of American Democracy and one person one vote? I don't think I have ever been this angry about a SCOTUS decision. The stolen SCOTUS seat paying-off big time for Republicans
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Democracy is over. The good news is the unlivable prison conditions we force border-crossing toddlers into are not ***exactly*** the same as Nazi extermination camps
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#305 » by Pointgod » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:37 pm

closg00 wrote:How is this not the end of American Democracy and one person one vote? I don't think I have ever been this angry about a SCOTUS decision. The stolen SCOTUS seat paying-off big time for Republicans
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Hey but Hillary!!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#306 » by Pointgod » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:45 pm

TGW wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
TGW wrote:
You're damn right I didn't. But I wasn't in a swing state—you know those states that Hillary refused to go to because she didn't want to leave the comfort of her NYC bed. The states that the unhinged moron campaigned in and won by 70,000 votes.


So admittedly you’re part of the problem


Aren't you in Europe somewhere?

Shut up.


People like you are exactly part of the problem. You think everything is some sort of joke and would rather destroy the whole system because you aren’t directly affected by Republican policies. The biggest problem is that even though you’re in a safe state there are millions of people that have the same mentality in swing states and you gladly push your bull which will depress turnout in key states.

So yes you were fine with a Trump Presidency. I wonder if you’re going to tell your grandkids that you couldn’t even be bothered to vote against Trump even symbolically. Take that in for a second.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#307 » by TGW » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:56 pm

Pointgod wrote:
TGW wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
So admittedly you’re part of the problem


Aren't you in Europe somewhere?

Shut up.


People like you are exactly part of the problem. You think everything is some sort of joke and would rather destroy the whole system because you aren’t directly affected by Republican policies. The biggest problem is that even though you’re in a safe state there are millions of people that have the same mentality in swing states and you gladly push your bull which will depress turnout in key states.

So yes you were fine with a Trump Presidency. I wonder if you’re going to tell your grandkids that you couldn’t even be bothered to vote against Trump even symbolically. Take that in for a second.


You're an idiot, dude. Blocked.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#308 » by gtn130 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:06 pm

lol
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#309 » by Kanyewest » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:46 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Why the language matters.

Concentration camps equate to what happened in Germany in the 40s.

Calling these concentration camps then equates those running the camps as Nazis.

It's really simple. It demeans what happened in Nazi Germany. It lowers the discourse here. And that results in things not getting done (in a meaningful way).


I'm reading a book about World War 2 (The Storm of War). It talks about how some German concentration camps(ie in France) were not death camps, although there was a pretty good chance you could end transferred to one of them. Basically, not all concentration camps are death camps but all death camps are concentration camps.

You also have the US running concentration camps within the United States on Japanese Americans. Here is George Takei who talks about living in them. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-takei-i-know-what-concentration-camps-are-i-was-inside-two-of-them-in-america/ And several more mentioned here like the USSR and the Gulags which run from the 1930s to the 1950s.

Basically, refusing to call Japanese internment camps or detention centers is a strategy used shield Americans from self-examination (at least that was a prevalent thought in the 1990s when people talked about Japanese internment camps). Granted these were not as bad as the Nazi regime but still not a great look when looking back in US history.

It seems like Republicans like Mitch McConnell are being overly sensitive. Also people don't appear to like the messenger in AOC- although criticism on this point is probably helping her gain more support at least among those who study history.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#310 » by closg00 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:35 pm

Republicans are quite clear about brazen power grabs at every level, with the help of their judges
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#311 » by TGW » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:33 pm

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#312 » by dobrojim » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 am

dckingsfan wrote:Don't use language like "concentration camp", then try to link the Rs to Nazis - it doesn't help get anything done and it focuses us on solving the wrong problems. The problem to focus on is an overall immigration strategy and getting Trump the hell out of the White House. Your approach helps solve neither of those problems, IMO.


Please post your definition of concentration camp (again) and explain to us less intelligent
people how these facilities on the S border don't meet that definition.

Might this not be an opportunity to educate by saying (explicitly):

the Nazis didn't invent concentration camps and don't have an historical monopoly on their use.
They are simply the most widely and rightly regarded as (being) the worst offenders that most people
are aware of.

The first Nazi concentration camps were not death camps.

Not enough outraged people calling them out as immoral was a significant factor in their evolution
towards becoming death camps.

Calling them concentration camps is not the same thing as calling all Pubs Nazis.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#313 » by Pointgod » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:10 am

TGW wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
TGW wrote:
Aren't you in Europe somewhere?

Shut up.


People like you are exactly part of the problem. You think everything is some sort of joke and would rather destroy the whole system because you aren’t directly affected by Republican policies. The biggest problem is that even though you’re in a safe state there are millions of people that have the same mentality in swing states and you gladly push your bull which will depress turnout in key states.

So yes you were fine with a Trump Presidency. I wonder if you’re going to tell your grandkids that you couldn’t even be bothered to vote against Trump even symbolically. Take that in for a second.


You're an idiot, dude. Blocked.


What a snowflake.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#314 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:52 am

dobrojim wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Don't use language like "concentration camp", then try to link the Rs to Nazis - it doesn't help get anything done and it focuses us on solving the wrong problems. The problem to focus on is an overall immigration strategy and getting Trump the hell out of the White House. Your approach helps solve neither of those problems, IMO.

Please post your definition of concentration camp (again) and explain to us less intelligent people how these facilities on the S border don't meet that definition.

Might this not be an opportunity to educate by saying (explicitly):

the Nazis didn't invent concentration camps and don't have an historical monopoly on their use.
They are simply the most widely and rightly regarded as (being) the worst offenders that most people
are aware of.

The first Nazi concentration camps were not death camps.

Not enough outraged people calling them out as immoral was a significant factor in their evolution
towards becoming death camps.

Calling them concentration camps is not the same thing as calling all Pubs Nazis.

Wow, guess I have been on my high horse. Sorry!

Look, most of us here want the same thing. We want Trump gone.

I will answer your question and then you can whip me in absentia on this subject.

concentration camp:
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.


Political prisoners? - no
Members of a persecuted minority? - no
Inadequate facilities? - yes, but only as an exception (because they were underfunded)
Forced labor or mass execution? - no

I don't think it meets the material definition. And yes, the reason for the language of "concentration camps" is to draw parallels (as Zonk did) to the Nazis and as did the press (for ratings and monetary gain) and as did the Ds for political gain. Flat out.

The D debates were interesting on this. Most of the candidates over the last two nights acknowledged the root cause of the problem being the unrest in Central America. Most said that they didn't have a solution but would call a meeting. None had a solution on what to do with the 100K+ that are coming to the borders each month other than - well, let them in. Even gtn has acknowledged this isn't a long-term solution.

So, I object to the language because when Trump is gone in 2020 and most likely the Rs still have the Senate - it just makes it that much harder to get to a real solution. I also think that it hurts our chances in 2020. The logic of - if you don't agree with me on this topic of concentration camps, then you are a Nazi is eerily similar to the Hillary "deplorable comment".

When I was walking precincts last year for Beto, I feel like those in the middle responded much better to positive than "you stupid idiot - you voted for an R in your lifetime"? message. And we can damn close to winning Texas. And the coattails allowed us to completely take over the Houston government.

My 1/2 cent.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#315 » by dobrojim » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:38 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Don't use language like "concentration camp", then try to link the Rs to Nazis - it doesn't help get anything done and it focuses us on solving the wrong problems. The problem to focus on is an overall immigration strategy and getting Trump the hell out of the White House. Your approach helps solve neither of those problems, IMO.

Please post your definition of concentration camp (again) and explain to us less intelligent people how these facilities on the S border don't meet that definition.

Might this not be an opportunity to educate by saying (explicitly):

the Nazis didn't invent concentration camps and don't have an historical monopoly on their use.
They are simply the most widely and rightly regarded as (being) the worst offenders that most people
are aware of.

The first Nazi concentration camps were not death camps.

Not enough outraged people calling them out as immoral was a significant factor in their evolution
towards becoming death camps.

Calling them concentration camps is not the same thing as calling all Pubs Nazis.

Wow, guess I have been on my high horse. Sorry!

Look, most of us here want the same thing. We want Trump gone.

I will answer your question and then you can whip me in absentia on this subject.

concentration camp:
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.


Political prisoners? - no
Members of a persecuted minority? - no

Inadequate facilities? - yes, but only as an exception (because they were underfunded)
Forced labor or mass execution? - no

I don't think it meets the material definition. And yes, the reason for the language of "concentration camps" is to draw parallels (as Zonk did) to the Nazis and as did the press (for ratings and monetary gain) and as did the Ds for political gain. Flat out.

The D debates were interesting on this. Most of the candidates over the last two nights acknowledged the root cause of the problem being the unrest in Central America. Most said that they didn't have a solution but would call a meeting. None had a solution on what to do with the 100K+ that are coming to the borders each month other than - well, let them in. Even gtn has acknowledged this isn't a long-term solution.

So, I object to the language because when Trump is gone in 2020 and most likely the Rs still have the Senate - it just makes it that much harder to get to a real solution. I also think that it hurts our chances in 2020. The logic of - if you don't agree with me on this topic of concentration camps, then you are a Nazi is eerily similar to the Hillary "deplorable comment".

When I was walking precincts last year for Beto, I feel like those in the middle responded much better to positive than "you stupid idiot - you voted for an R in your lifetime"? message. And we can damn close to winning Texas. And the coattails allowed us to completely take over the Houston government.

My 1/2 cent.


I think an argument can be made that these people are political prisoners in the sense
that much of the objection to their wanting and trying to be here centers around the
fear that they will be future Democratic voters.

They are absolutely members of a persecuted minority.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#316 » by I_Like_Dirt » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:07 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Political prisoners? - no
Members of a persecuted minority? - no
Inadequate facilities? - yes, but only as an exception (because they were underfunded)
Forced labor or mass execution? - no



Aha! We finally get to the heart of it.

Political prisoners: a person imprisoned for their political beliefs or actions

This is a bit debatable. Those responsible for the camps definitely view the migrant actions as political ones, though. Eliminate the belief that they're actually political actions and you probably eliminate the camps, too. I'd also suggest that seeking asylum is a political action, but really, we only need one of these definitions and political prisoners is at least debatable.


Persecuted minority:

Minority - check

Persecuted - treated cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs - check

I'm not sure how you can reasonably see it otherwise. They aren't coming from Norway, after all.


We don't have forced labor or mass executions but your very definition says only sometimes do concentration camps have those things. We have camps where a large amount of people are concentrated in awful conditions because of their race for political reasons. I guess let's just make up some sort of new word for that since clearly nothing exists that describes such a thing?



That said, I do agree with you that it's nothing that's going to topple Trump and it shouldn't be viewed through that lens. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't call a spade a spade. The way I see it, it's true but you also don't have to dwell on it. If someone tells you the water is coming out of the pipe in a certain place, you don't need to deny that it's true in order to go elsewhere along the line to shut the water off.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#317 » by Wizardspride » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:44 pm

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President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#318 » by Pointgod » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:08 pm

closg00 wrote:Republicans are quite clear about brazen power grabs at every level, with the help of their judges
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It must be great being a Republican politician. You can destroy Democracy, support locking up children in cages, literally protect a criminal, support a serial rapist and not even attempt to do your job and a significant number of people in the country will see you as a better option than Democrats over the definition of a concentration camp :-?

I’m generally curious guys. Why is it that Americans can’t seem to take their collective heads out of their assesses and recognize the Republican Party as everything that’s wrong with the country. Some of you guys talk to Republicans, Independents and moderate Democrats so what the hell is wrong with the people in your country?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#319 » by dckingsfan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:18 pm

Pointgod wrote:It must be great being a Republican politician. You can destroy Democracy, support locking up children in cages, literally protect a criminal, support a serial rapist and not even attempt to do your job and a significant number of people in the country will see you as a better option than Democrats over the definition of a concentration camp :-?

I’m generally curious guys. Why is it that Americans can’t seem to take their collective heads out of their assesses and recognize the Republican Party as everything that’s wrong with the country. Some of you guys talk to Republicans, Independents and moderate Democrats so what the hell is wrong with the people in your country?

The Ds constantly do stupid stuff to alienate folks, if they were half-way competent it would be a bloodbath:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/28/opinion/democrats-debate-2020.html

Calling for the decriminalization of border crossings (while opposing a wall)? That was a major theme of Wednesday’s debate, underlining the Republican contention that Democrats are a party of open borders, limitless amnesty and, in time, the Third World-ization of America.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#320 » by FAH1223 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:30 pm

In an astonishing turn, Soros and Charles Koch team up to end US ‘forever war’ policy - The Boston Globe
By Stephen Kinzer
Updated June 30, 2019, 5:01 a.m.

Image
George Soros, David Koch, and Charles Koch. (OLIVIER HOSLET/AP/POOL | PHELAN M. EBENHACK/AP/FILE | BO RADER/THE WICHITA EAGLE VIA AP/FILE)

BESIDES BEING BILLIONAIRES and spending much of their fortunes to promote pet causes, the leftist financier George Soros and the right-wing Koch brothers have little in common. They could be seen as polar opposites. Soros is an old-fashioned New Deal liberal. The Koch brothers are fire-breathing right-wingers who dream of cutting taxes and dismantling government. Now they have found something to agree on: the United States must end its “forever war” and adopt an entirely new foreign policy.

In one of the most remarkable partnerships in modern American political history, Soros and Charles Koch, the more active of the two brothers, are joining to finance a new foreign-policy think tank in Washington. It will promote an approach to the world based on diplomacy and restraint rather than threats, sanctions, and bombing. This is a radical notion in Washington, where every major think tank promotes some variant of neocon militarism or liberal interventionism. Soros and the Koch brothers are uniting to revive the fading vision of a peaceable United States. The street cred they bring from both ends of the political spectrum — along with the money they are providing — will make this new think tank an off-pitch voice for statesmanship amid a Washington chorus that promotes brinksmanship.

“This is big,” said Trita Parsi, former president of the National Iranian American Council and a co-founder of the new think tank. “It shows how important ending endless war is if they’re willing to put aside their differences and get together on this project. We are going to challenge the basis of American foreign policy in a way that has not been done in at least the last quarter-century.”

Since peaceful foreign policy was a founding principle of the United States, it’s appropriate that the name of this think tank harken back to history. It will be called the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, an homage to John Quincy Adams, who in a seminal speech on Independence Day in 1821 declared that the United States “goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.” The Quincy Institute will promote a foreign policy based on that live-and-let-live principle.

The institute plans to open its doors in September and hold an official inauguration later in the autumn. Its founding donors — Soros’s Open Society Foundation and the Charles Koch Foundation — have each contributed half a million dollars to fund its takeoff. A handful of individual donors have joined to add another $800,000. By next year the institute hopes to have a $3.5 million budget and a staff of policy experts who will churn out material for use in Congress and in public debates. Hiring is underway. Among Parsi’s co-founders are several well-known critics of American foreign policy, including Suzanne DiMaggio, who has spent decades promoting negotiated alternatives to conflict with China, Iran, and North Korea; the historian and essayist Stephen Wertheim; and the anti-militarist author and retired Army colonel Andrew Bacevich.

“The Quincy Institute will invite both progressives and anti-interventionist conservatives to consider a new, less militarized approach to policy,” Bacevich said, when asked why he signed up. “We oppose endless, counterproductive war. We want to restore the pursuit of peace to the nation’s foreign policy agenda.”

In concrete terms, this means the Quincy Institute will likely advocate a withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan and Syria; a return to the nuclear deal with Iran; less confrontational approaches to Russia and China; an end to regime-change campaigns against Venezuela and Cuba; and sharp reductions in the defense budget.

It aims to issue four reports before the end of 2019: two offering alternative approaches to the Middle East and East Asia, one on “ending endless war,” and one called “democratizing foreign policy.” Its statement of principles asserts that the United States “should engage with the world, and the essence of engagement is peaceful cooperation among peoples. For this reason, the United States must cherish peace and pursue it through the vigorous practice of diplomacy . . . The use of armed force does not represent American engagement in the world. Force ends human life, destroying engagement irreparably. Any resort to force should occur only as a last resort and should remain infrequent. The military exists to defend the people and territory of the United States, not to act as a global police force.”

The depth of this heresy can only be appreciated by recognizing the meretricious power that nourishes Washington’s think-tank ecosystem. These “talk shops” employ experts who pop up to advise politicians, journalists, Congressional staff members, and the public. They write opinion columns and bloviate on news channels. In foreign policy, all major Washington think tanks promote interventionist dogma: the United States faces threats everywhere, it must therefore be present everywhere, and “present” includes maintaining more than 800 foreign military bases and spending trillions of dollars on endless confrontations with foreign countries. That, with some variation, is the ethos that moves conservative think tanks like the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation as well as liberal ones like the Center for American Progress and the Brookings Institution. Just as pernicious as their relentless support of the global-hegemony project is the corruption that lies behind it. Many Washington think tanks are supported by industries and foreign powers eager to inflate threats in order shape American law, policy, and public opinion. Their “experts” are often paid shills who cloak themselves in institutional respectability so they can masquerade as independent analysts.

When foreign crises like the war in Yemen break out, critics of US policy emerge and are given space to air their views. These protests, however, are episodic. Little continuity ties one burst of outrage to the next. The Quincy Institute aims to offer a corps of experts in Washington who will promote a unified foreign-policy paradigm based on statecraft and cooperation. Its founders plan to become involved in grass-roots campaigns, especially in minority communities. They hope their specialists will eventually move on to populate Congressional staffs and the executive branch — as alumni of pro-intervention think tanks have been doing for decades.

“Some interesting currents are emerging in American politics and we want to capture this moment, but we’re in it for the long haul,” said Parsi. “We’ll be a failure if in 10 years we’re still criticizing. In 10 years, we want to be driving the bus.”

Correction: An earlier version of this column said the Koch brothers are financing the Quincy Institute. Only one of the brothers, Charles, is backing the think tank.

Stephen Kinzer is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University.
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