what should the blazers do, go all-in or stay on course

[pootbrah]

Zach Collins should be untouchable

[Wizenheimer]

Zach Collins should be untouchable

only one player on Portland's roster should be untouchable, and that's Dame. Not CJ or Zach

If the Pels would have traded AD for CJ and Zach, Blazers would have been fools to decline. Same is true if the Spurs would have traded Kawhi for CJ and Zach; or if Indiana would have traded PG13 for CJ and the picks that became Zach. And every rumor we heard was that at minimum, Portland was engaged in those talks but holding CJ untouchable. That's way too conservative & mismanagement IMO

CJ + Zach for Blake Griffin? That's a lot tougher call. I'd certainly include Zach in a Griffin trade. But if CJ's iso-ball was moderated (a lot), a Dame-CJ-Griffin-Nurk foursome would be a contender, especially next season. The tax would be insane but JA & Olshey can worry about that while we fans go gaga over the upside

Zach in a trade for Kevin Love? I don't think I'd go for that.

Zach has a high enough ceiling that I wouldn't include him in a trade that didn't have a significant upside, but that's a long way from untouchable in my view. Maybe we define untouchable differently

[zzaj]

If and I stress "IF" Anfernee "blows up" this yr do you then more strongly consider trading CJ perhaps at the deadline with 1 1/2 yrs left on his contract?

I'm open to trading CJ for the right deal regardless of Simons. But Simon's would have to have a MASSIVE jump in offense, defense and feel for the game in order to be a starting caliber player. I could maybe see one of those happening in the short term, but not all three...

[DaVoiceMaster]

I am not a big Collins fan and at this point, I think we really blew that draft by trading up for him and left some guys on the table who have had the better 2 years. I will hang on to a little hope with his potential, but he needs to start showing it soon.

I wouldn’t just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would sure trade him if the right player came along and wouldn’t think twice about it. It would take a special player to trade CJ though.

[d-train]

Zach Collins should be untouchable

No he shouldn't. I'm sure he wasn't untouchable in talks about AD. Untouchable depends on the player being offered and how much time we would have to build a contender with that player. I would trade Lillard, CJ, and anyone else we have for KAT on a 5 year contract. I wouldn't trade Lillard or CJ for AD on a 1 year contract. And, I consider AD a better player than KAT.

[Fitz303]

I am not a big Collins fan and at this point, I think we really blew that draft by trading up for him and left some guys on the table who have had the better 2 years. I will hang on to a little hope with his potential, but he needs to start showing it soon.

I wouldn’t just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would sure trade him if the right player came along and wouldn’t think twice about it. It would take a special player to trade CJ though.

Zach Collins @ 21 years old: 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 21 years old: 00.0 mpg, 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg, .000 FG%, .000 3pt%, .000 TS%

Zach Collins @ 2nd season (21): 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 2nd season (23): 15.7 mpg, 6.8 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.0 apg, .436 FG%, .396 3pt%, .534 TS%


Imagine if you had the same outlook on CJ after his 2nd year, well before you put him in the "special player" for a trade category

[d-train]

Zach Collins should be untouchable

only one player on Portland's roster should be untouchable, and that's Dame. Not CJ or Zach

If the Pels would have traded AD for CJ and Zach, Blazers would have been fools to decline. Same is true if the Spurs would have traded Kawhi for CJ and Zach; or if Indiana would have traded PG13 for CJ and the picks that became Zach. And every rumor we heard was that at minimum, Portland was engaged in those talks but holding CJ untouchable. That's way too conservative & mismanagement IMO

CJ + Zach for Blake Griffin? That's a lot tougher call. I'd certainly include Zach in a Griffin trade. But if CJ's iso-ball was moderated (a lot), a Dame-CJ-Griffin-Nurk foursome would be a contender, especially next season. The tax would be insane but JA & Olshey can worry about that while we fans go gaga over the upside

Zach in a trade for Kevin Love? I don't think I'd go for that.

Zach has a high enough ceiling that I wouldn't include him in a trade that didn't have a significant upside, but that's a long way from untouchable in my view. Maybe we define untouchable differently

No player is blanket untouchable. Every trade you mentioned is a good example of a bad trade. Fortunately, the Blazers are under good management and didn't make any of those dumb trades.

[dunlop212]

I think that we have seen enough to know that Collins will never be a volume scorer or rebounder, or elite three point shooter. If he went away in a trade, I would not be in a panic that he was going to blow up into an all star or anything. That's not putting him down; he's a solid rotation player on a good team; good value for a 10th pick.

Simons OTOH, I have no idea what his ceiling is. There is a decent chance that he could be really, really good. I would hate to see him traded.

[pootbrah]

Zach Collins should be untouchable

No he shouldn't. I'm sure he wasn't untouchable in talks about AD. Untouchable depends on the player being offered and how much time we would have to build a contender with that player. I would trade Lillard, CJ, and anyone else we have for KAT on a 5 year contract. I wouldn't trade Lillard or CJ for AD on a 1 year contract. And, I consider AD a better player than KAT.

Ehhh for Zach's current trade value we should never consider trading him but yeh I would trade Doncic for him sure. He's shown enough to me to have me genuinely believe he's going to be an all-star/all defense type player soon enough.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[DusterBuster]

I am not a big Collins fan and at this point, I think we really blew that draft by trading up for him and left some guys on the table who have had the better 2 years. I will hang on to a little hope with his potential, but he needs to start showing it soon.

I wouldn’t just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would sure trade him if the right player came along and wouldn’t think twice about it. It would take a special player to trade CJ though.

I don't know if the Blazers "blew" the pick. Certainly there were better guys that got picked after, but 1) that happens to pretty much 28 teams every single year regardless of where a team picks, and 2) a lot of guys that blow up when they're picked at lower spots do so because of their situation. Guys have to be in situations to succeed. Would Donovan Mitchell be who he is today had Portland picked him? Probably not.

Collins is pretty highly regarded as a prospect outside of Portland. I agree with your overall point though, I'm not willing to give him up for just anything, but if a deal came along to majorly upgrade a starting spot.... cya Zach, thanks for comin' and good luck to ya.

[DusterBuster]

I think that we have seen enough to know that Collins will never be a volume scorer or rebounder, or elite three point shooter. If he went away in a trade, I would not be in a panic that he was going to blow up into an all star or anything. That's not putting him down; he's a solid rotation player on a good team; good value for a 10th pick.

Simons OTOH, I have no idea what his ceiling is. There is a decent chance that he could be really, really good. I would hate to see him traded.

Simons I'd trade too if the right deal came along. I'm sorry, but if a deal came along where you can get a disgruntled superstar like a PG3 or Leonard again and Simons needs to be included... fine - do it.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I am not a big Collins fan and at this point, I think we really blew that draft by trading up for him and left some guys on the table who have had the better 2 years. I will hang on to a little hope with his potential, but he needs to start showing it soon.

I wouldn’t just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would sure trade him if the right player came along and wouldn’t think twice about it. It would take a special player to trade CJ though.

Zach Collins @ 21 years old: 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 21 years old: 00.0 mpg, 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg, .000 FG%, .000 3pt%, .000 TS%

Zach Collins @ 2nd season (21): 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 2nd season (23): 15.7 mpg, 6.8 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.0 apg, .436 FG%, .396 3pt%, .534 TS%


Imagine if you had the same outlook on CJ after his 2nd year, well before you put him in the "special player" for a trade category

CJ didn't play his rookie season due to injury, was stuck behind Matthews and others his second season, then turned it on his third season when he actually got a chance to play. "Imagine" if the Blazers didn't trade for Aflallo and played CJ instead when Matthews went down. Collins has had a chance to play since his rookie season and only had Aminu in his way. Sure, he's shown glimpses, but I'm not going to get excited about the guy until he can put a long stretch of games together where he can actually stay out of foul trouble, play extended minutes, make shots consistently, and not make bonehead fouls on defense.

[dunlop212]

CJ should be the opposite of untouchable. His trade value is at its peak. His advanced numbers are meh, and Portland has a credible replacement. He is likely headed to an overpay on his next contract.

[Najee12]

In my opinion, Portland's weakness is at the forward spots. The Blazers don't have any answer for the elite small forwards (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George) or top power forwards. I personally think having an elite small forward is more pressing, because of the versatility of supporting a smallish backcourt.

When George and Leonard were available, those opportunities were ideal for Portland to have made a move. But until then, the Blazers need to continue the course of its committee approach and hope one of its young prospects develop during this Damian Lillard/C.J. McCollum run.

[Fitz303]

I am not a big Collins fan and at this point, I think we really blew that draft by trading up for him and left some guys on the table who have had the better 2 years. I will hang on to a little hope with his potential, but he needs to start showing it soon.

I wouldn’t just trade him for the sake of trading him, but I would sure trade him if the right player came along and wouldn’t think twice about it. It would take a special player to trade CJ though.

Zach Collins @ 21 years old: 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 21 years old: 00.0 mpg, 0.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.0 apg, .000 FG%, .000 3pt%, .000 TS%

Zach Collins @ 2nd season (21): 17.6 mpg, 6.6 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.9 apg, .473 FG%, .331 3pt%, .562 TS%
CJ McCollum @ 2nd season (23): 15.7 mpg, 6.8 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 1.0 apg, .436 FG%, .396 3pt%, .534 TS%


Imagine if you had the same outlook on CJ after his 2nd year, well before you put him in the "special player" for a trade category

CJ didn't play his rookie season due to injury, was stuck behind Matthews and others his second season, then turned it on his third season when he actually got a chance to play. "Imagine" if the Blazers didn't trade for Aflallo and played CJ instead when Matthews went down. Collins has had a chance to play since his rookie season and only had Aminu in his way. Sure, he's shown glimpses, but I'm not going to get excited about the guy until he can put a long stretch of games together where he can actually stay out of foul trouble, play extended minutes, make shots consistently, and not make bonehead fouls on defense.

CJ did play the 2nd half of his rookie season, and was also 23 years old by his 2nd season where he got stuck behind Afflalo (essentially Kent Bazemore). He was young, and wasn't ready. His numbers showed flashes and potential, but not fully realized. Collins has shown flashes and potential, but not fully realized. Collins has been stuck behind Nurkic and later Kanter (similar to the Afflalo trade). You can't dispute that those numbers in their 2nd season are very similar.

There's no doubt that Collins needs to get bigger and better with fouling, but at his age, McCollum was still playing at Lehigh University. Collins is banging with NBA centers. All that being said, I still don't see him as a PF and think that Portland is better off trading him (which sucks for me as a big fan of his) sooner than later, seeing as though I don't see Nurkic going anywhere. Zach's long term position is Center. He even said himself in exit interviews that he thinks he's more of a Center. Personally, I hope he's packaged in a deal for a PF and he gets a chance to be a real Center somewhere else.

[Showdown]

CJ's next contract is going to be real problem and people don't see it because they talk about Dame's supermax but if he sign deal that is 30 milions per year then it will be imposible to move him. If he would accept deal that Barnes is going to sign with Kings that would be great but he would probably see that as disrespecting him and that's the biggest problem with his new contract.

[d-train]

CJ's next contract is going to be real problem and people don't see it because they talk about Dame's supermax but if he sign deal that is 30 milions per year then it will be imposible to move him. If he would accept deal that Barnes is going to sign with Kings that would be great but he would probably see that as disrespecting him and that's the biggest problem with his new contract.

The size of a players contract is based on his options, not his feelings. If Blazers sign CJ to an extension starting at ~$35M in 2021, it will be because CJ could have got that same money from other teams. And, because it still makes sense in 2021 for the Blazers to continue building a team around our current core.

The same applies to Lillard. Blazers aren't going to give Lillard a super-max just because they can.

[JasonStern]

Said it years ago and I will say it again now. Portland should have went all in on a locked up Jimmy Butler when we had 3 1st round picks, all future 1sts, and decent filler like Harkless.

Dame/CJ/Butler/Aminu/Nurkić

Now, the Blazers cap situation is finally hitting them and there aren't any players of similar fit, age, and contract available. Plus we had a great playoff run causing people to want to go all-in on questionable options like Love.

The good news is that I am wrong often...

[d-train]

Said it years ago and I will say it again now. Portland should have went all in on a locked up Jimmy Butler when we had 3 1st round picks, all future 1sts, and decent filler like Harkless.

Dame/CJ/Butler/Aminu/Nurkić

Now, the Blazers cap situation is finally hitting them and there aren't any players of similar fit, age, and contract available. Plus we had a great playoff run causing people to want to go all-in on questionable options like Love.

The good news is that I am wrong often...

You are wrong about why you are wrong. You are wrong about this deal because the Bulls got a better deal from Wolves. You might also be wrong that Blazers didn't offer a deal similar to your proposal, but it would be irrelevant anyway. Wolves traded a 2016 #5 pick (Dunn), a 2017 #7 pick (Markkanen), and the best asset Wolves traded was a max player on a rookie contract (LaVine). The 3 picks the Blazers had were 2017 #15, #20, and #26. Your offer is short 2 quality 1st round picks and a max player on a rookie contract.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Yup, it takes two to tango and without including CJ we didn't have great assets to trade. Wiz has harped on that for a while.


I do think this year we could have a decent stockpile of assets to go after someone. 42 million in expirings and Little/Collins/Simons plus all our picks. I don't know who would be worth that kind of package that might be put on the block this year, but we should be able to bid with a more competitive package this year than we have the past several years.