Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

ORL_on_FIRE · Post #401 » by **ORL_on_FIRE** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:23 pm

Everything I’ve seen from Ross this offseason points towards him coming back. He genuinely seems happy with being on the Magic. I’d be surprised if he went elsewhere.

ezzzp · Post #402 » by **ezzzp** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:26 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Why would he take the MLE from us? Some team out there is bound to give him something in the 15 mill range. I guess it depends on where some of the free agents land, but Philly and the Clippers seem like obvious destinations if they strike out on big names.

What are you talking about? We have his rights and can pay him 15m if we want to... we'd still have the MLE as well.

What is our cap situation if the 4yr 100 million dollar offer is true? I was thinking a deal like that would send us into the luxury tax.

Nope. In fact if Magic stretch Mozgov they can use the full MLE if they choose to and stay below the threshold.

Plus if they prefer to not stretch Mozgov and use the MLE, they wouldn't be that much over it anyhow and would be well below it next year. Basically it just means DeVos empire spends $2-$3m more for one season than if they just barely stayed below tax.

basketballRob · Post #403 » by **basketballRob** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:35 pm

ezzzp wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
OrlandO wrote:What are you talking about? We have his rights and can pay him 15m if we want to... we'd still have the MLE as well.

What is our cap situation if the 4yr 100 million dollar offer is true? I was thinking a deal like that would send us into the luxury tax.

Nope. In fact if Magic stretch Mozgov they can use the full MLE if they choose to and stay below the threshold.

Plus if they prefer to not stretch Mozgov and use the MLE, they wouldn't be that much over it anyhow and would be well below it next year. Basically it just means DeVos empire spends $2-$3m more for one season than if they just barely stayed below tax.

We haven't seen Ross' contract yet.

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Catledge · Post #404 » by **Catledge** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:42 pm

ezzzp wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
OrlandO wrote:What are you talking about? We have his rights and can pay him 15m if we want to... we'd still have the MLE as well.

What is our cap situation if the 4yr 100 million dollar offer is true? I was thinking a deal like that would send us into the luxury tax.

Nope. In fact if Magic stretch Mozgov they can use the full MLE if they choose to and stay below the threshold.

Plus if they prefer to not stretch Mozgov and use the MLE, they wouldn't be that much over it anyhow and would be well below it next year. Basically it just means DeVos empire spends $2-$3m more for one season than if they just barely stayed below tax.

I have some questions related to this that maybe you or somebody else would know the answers to:

1) Is there a way to stretch Moz over just 2 years? Do we have to stretch for 3? I'm looking for a way to get some cap relief now without using up our 2021 cap space.

2) How exactly does the cutoff for the non-tax-paying MLE work? Can we use the non-tax MLE to go into the tax? Or do we have to be under the tax threshold after using the MLE?

3) Am I right in thinking that there are extra penalties for going into the tax multiple years in a row?

magicman112 · Post #405 » by **magicman112** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:42 pm

OrlandO wrote:Is it normal for a free agent in ross' tier to not be meeting with teams on free agency day? I mean he's not a big fish, but he's a damn good player with decent demand and plenty of money involved. Would his agent really handle all the meetings by himself if ross was seriously considering leaving? Feels like we're headed to a re-signing...

Well if he's decided to stay for sure he'd just have his agent tell any teams calling thank you but he's not interested in leaving.

Post #406 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:43 pm

A lot of these deals have already been agreed to. Won't be surprised to hear Ross already knows the terms and is coming back. Makes sense considering he'd wait and see what Vucevic would do during his exit interview. Seems like a logical decision for the Magic to run it back if they're giving big money for Vucevic to come back.

I always liked Ross. One of my favorite Magic players. Would be happy to have him back.

ezzzp · Post #407 » by **ezzzp** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:52 pm

basketballRob wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:What is our cap situation if the 4yr 100 million dollar offer is true? I was thinking a deal like that would send us into the luxury tax.

Nope. In fact if Magic stretch Mozgov they can use the full MLE if they choose to and stay below the threshold.

Plus if they prefer to not stretch Mozgov and use the MLE, they wouldn't be that much over it anyhow and would be well below it next year. Basically it just means DeVos empire spends $2-$3m more for one season than if they just barely stayed below tax.
We haven't seen Ross' contract yet.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I used $15m per for that estimate- if it’s more than that then they’ll stretch Moz or pay the difference in tax. They probably don’t use MLE in that scenario.

MoMM · Post #408 » by **MoMM** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:53 pm

Catledge wrote:3) Am I right in thinking that there are extra penalties for going into the tax multiple years in a row?

Yes, there are.

MoMM · Post #409 » by **MoMM** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:54 pm

ezzzp wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Nope. In fact if Magic stretch Mozgov they can use the full MLE if they choose to and stay below the threshold.

Plus if they prefer to not stretch Mozgov and use the MLE, they wouldn't be that much over it anyhow and would be well below it next year. Basically it just means DeVos empire spends $2-$3m more for one season than if they just barely stayed below tax.
We haven't seen Ross' contract yet.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I used $15m per for that estimate- if it’s more than that then they’ll stretch Moz or pay the difference in tax. They probably don’t use MLE in that scenario.

40M 3-year deal sounds fair to me.

ezzzp · Post #410 » by **ezzzp** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Catledge wrote:
I have some questions related to this that maybe you or somebody else would know the answers to:

1) Is there a way to stretch Moz over just 2 years? Do we have to stretch for 3? I'm looking for a way to get some cap relief now without using up our 2021 cap space.

2) How exactly does the cutoff for the non-tax-paying MLE work? Can we use the non-tax MLE to go into the tax? Or do we have to be under the tax threshold after using the MLE?

3) Am I right in thinking that there are extra penalties for going into the tax multiple years in a row?

1 they can’t do two - only 3y

2 cap holds often dictate landing spot of MLE type- so order of signings and when MLE is used in that order matters ...there is a above tax MLE and a below tax MLE so amount depends on where $ is when team uses it

3 yes - it’s called repeater tax...Magic shouldn’t be in danger of it as they are naturally shedding several big contracts over next couple of years - that could change depending on how new contracts are structured

ezzzp · Post #411 » by **ezzzp** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:16 pm

Read on Twitter

GelbeWand09 · Post #412 » by **GelbeWand09** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:46 pm

Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact :lol:

NotACat · Post #413 » by **NotACat** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:49 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross.

If they're moving JRich, do they have any shooters outside of Kelly Olynyk?

pepe1991 · Post #414 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:57 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

RIley is strong anti-tanking rebuild guy. He said Heat will never to "rebuild" under him

GelbeWand09 · Post #415 » by **GelbeWand09** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:07 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

RIley is strong anti-tanking rebuild guy. He said Heat will never to "rebuild" under him

Yea but hard to say how much better Miami is with Butler. He is just a weird guy, who can make or break your team. There is a good chance we are only the 8th best team in the east now. But maybe we catch the Pacers when they play like at the end of last season til Dipo comes back.

pepe1991 · Post #416 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:13 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

RIley is strong anti-tanking rebuild guy. He said Heat will never to "rebuild" under him

Yea but hard to say how much better Miami is with Butler. He is just a weird guy, who can make or break your team. There is a good chance we are only the 8th best team in the east now. But maybe we catch the Pacers when they play like at the end of last season til Dipo comes back.

Pacers could be rebuilding.
Collinson retired, Bojan could change team , they have decision to make with Sabonis, Oladipo might won't be ready to retun that early ( or at all ) this year.

MoMM · Post #417 » by **MoMM** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:14 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

RIley is strong anti-tanking rebuild guy. He said Heat will never to "rebuild" under him

Imagine if some of Magic fans were Heat fans, that wouldn't work :lol:

GelbeWand09 · Post #418 » by **GelbeWand09** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:17 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
RIley is strong anti-tanking rebuild guy. He said Heat will never to "rebuild" under him

Yea but hard to say how much better Miami is with Butler. He is just a weird guy, who can make or break your team. There is a good chance we are only the 8th best team in the east now. But maybe we catch the Pacers when they play like at the end of last season til Dipo comes back.

Pacers could be rebuilding.
Collinson retired, Bojan could change team , they have decision to make with Sabonis, Oladipo might won't be ready to retun that early ( or at all ) this year.

Yea ok, than we can catch them & i i'm not sure Brooklyn is better with probably 60 games of Irving with even worse defense than 81 games of Russell. But Dinwiddle & Levert missed a ton of games.

darthmerrick · Post #419 » by **darthmerrick** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:18 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

I'm still trying to figure out how they are going to get under the luxury cap and then regular salary cap to give Butler a serious offer.

They have Dragic, Anderson and Whiteside as large expirings, but it's going to take a massive deal with a lot of picks to move two or all those guys just to bring in Butler.

GelbeWand09 · Post #420 » by **GelbeWand09** » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:25 pm

darthmerrick wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:Butler to the Heat? Makes it not easier reaching the playoffs even with Vuc & Ross. With the new Lottery Odds, maybe we get a top 3 pick while keepin the team intact

I'm still trying to figure out how they are going to get under the luxury cap and then regular salary cap to give Butler a serious offer.

They have Dragic, Anderson and Whiteside as large expirings, but it's going to take a massive deal with a lot of picks to move two or all those guys just to bring in Butler.

On the GB i see Dragic & Waiters. Sounds bad for Philly.