Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

[dsilby]

I think you guys should have probably kept Brogdon over some of the guys you did pay, but the truth is that not many ownership groups would be willing to pay the tax on retaining all these guys. I just looked through the first couple pages, so maybe the tone of the thread calmed down a bit, but I don't really see the Bucks being cheap to the point that it's some big scandal here.

The CBA and the luxury tax penalties aren't really designed to keep a team as deep as last year's Bucks squad together for a long run. The reality is teams are going to lose players and the Buck's willingness to pay guys looks pretty decent at a minimum. There were just too many guys to pay.

And Malcom hated the city of Milwaukee. That played a big role.
If Malcom loved it there and had that same passion that Khris and Giannis has to bring a title to Milwaukee, I bet he's a Buck right now.

[Jez2983]

This is really sad. Loved the guy. Hopefully Horst has something else up his sleeve.

I guess we have a few more assets now.

[dsilby]

Don't blame Brogdon for wanting out of this franchise honestly

I agree.
It must be so hard playing for a team with a brand new arena, brand new practice facility, the leagues MVP, the coach of the year and being 2 games from the finals.
Damn franchise.

It's not about the franchise. It is about the city.

He hated Milwaukee.
But I responded to a post talking about the "franchise". Not the city.

[Ill-yasova]

Is there a single person who would’ve been upset if we brought Brogdon back at that number? I don’t believe there was.

I wouldn’t say I would’ve been upset, but I wouldn’t have liked it either.

[60611]

I like Brogdon, I really did. Good player, very smart. Good spot up shooter, nice defender. Not great, but nice. Had that great move to the hole.
Malcom is a nice piece and he will need to be replaced, but replacing what he gave is not some impossible task. They didn't lose 2006 Dyane Wade here.

Remember, Malcom did play the entire Raptor series with fresh legs and no rust and had minimal effect on the series. People are acting like this team is now done without Malcom.
Well they just had Malcom and the team still lost 4 in a row and Brogdon did not play well either.

So far with Hill, Khris and Lopez returning. Malcom is really the only lost piece. It's a good piece, but one that can absolutely be overcome.

The human brain is a funny thing. I guess we can convince ourselves of anything if we try hard enough.

Going into game 6 (sorry, don’t have updated stats with G6 included), the Bucks have a net rating of +12.6 in 116 minutes with Malcolm Brogdon and -11.5 in 86 minutes without him. Brogdon has been by far their best defender on Kawhi, holding him to 12-of-35 shooting (34.3 percent) in 110 possessions as the primary defender.

[Garden Of Edens]

Do we even know what yr or protections for the 1st rd pick?

[HaroldinGMinor]

I think you guys should have probably kept Brogdon over some of the guys you did pay, but the truth is that not many ownership groups would be willing to pay the tax on retaining all these guys. I just looked through the first couple pages, so maybe the tone of the thread calmed down a bit, but I don't really see the Bucks being cheap to the point that it's some big scandal here.

The CBA and the luxury tax penalties aren't really designed to keep a team as deep as last year's Bucks squad together for a long run. The reality is teams are going to lose players and the Buck's willingness to pay guys looks pretty decent at a minimum. There were just too many guys to pay.

And Malcom hated the city of Milwaukee. That played a big role.
If Malcom loved it there and had that same passion that Khris and Giannis has to bring a title to Milwaukee, I bet he's a Buck right now.

No he didn't. Good lord. He said it was segregated.

Here is his entire quote:

"Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.”

"Leadership and change starts from the top down — with our owners being progressive," he said. "They encourage players that also want to be forward thinking. For them to support Peter Feigin is a big sign and encourages us to do the same. To speak out for what is good and right.”

[dsilby]

I like Brogdon, I really did. Good player, very smart. Good spot up shooter, nice defender. Not great, but nice. Had that great move to the hole.
Malcom is a nice piece and he will need to be replaced, but replacing what he gave is not some impossible task. They didn't lose 2006 Dyane Wade here.

Remember, Malcom did play the entire Raptor series with fresh legs and no rust and had minimal effect on the series. People are acting like this team is now done without Malcom.
Well they just had Malcom and the team still lost 4 in a row and Brogdon did not play well either.

So far with Hill, Khris and Lopez returning. Malcom is really the only lost piece. It's a good piece, but one that can absolutely be overcome.

The human brain is a funny thing. I guess we can convince ourselves of anything if we try hard enough.

Going into game 6 (sorry, don’t have updated stats with G6 included), the Bucks have a net rating of +12.6 in 116 minutes with Malcolm Brogdon and -11.5 in 86 minutes without him. Brogdon has been by far their best defender on Kawhi, holding him to 12-of-35 shooting (34.3 percent) in 110 possessions as the primary defender.

Pretty sure Khris was the best defensed on Kawhi? If not, right up there.
Regardless, my point is a good one and it's not trying to convince anyone of anything. Brogdon is s good player but a replaceable one.

[Ron Swanson]

Brogdon may have either communicated to the team or his agent that he'd like a bigger role and that's completely fine. I personally think the front office was convinced he was the most expendable of the core guys when he went down with the injury and the team didn't really skip a beat.

[dsilby]

I think you guys should have probably kept Brogdon over some of the guys you did pay, but the truth is that not many ownership groups would be willing to pay the tax on retaining all these guys. I just looked through the first couple pages, so maybe the tone of the thread calmed down a bit, but I don't really see the Bucks being cheap to the point that it's some big scandal here.

The CBA and the luxury tax penalties aren't really designed to keep a team as deep as last year's Bucks squad together for a long run. The reality is teams are going to lose players and the Buck's willingness to pay guys looks pretty decent at a minimum. There were just too many guys to pay.

And Malcom hated the city of Milwaukee. That played a big role.
If Malcom loved it there and had that same passion that Khris and Giannis has to bring a title to Milwaukee, I bet he's a Buck right now.

No he didn't. Good lord. He said it was segregated.

Here is his entire quote:

"Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.”

"Leadership and change starts from the top down — with our owners being progressive," he said. "They encourage players that also want to be forward thinking. For them to support Peter Feigin is a big sign and encourages us to do the same. To speak out for what is good and right.”

He did not like city and I know this first hand. And people personally around him also know that.
It's really not up for debate.

[HaroldinGMinor]

And Malcom hated the city of Milwaukee. That played a big role.
If Malcom loved it there and had that same passion that Khris and Giannis has to bring a title to Milwaukee, I bet he's a Buck right now.

No he didn't. Good lord. He said it was segregated.

Here is his entire quote:

"Before I came to Milwaukee I’d heard the city was the most segregated in the country," Brogdon said in the article. "I’d heard it was racist. When I got here it was extremely segregated. I’ve never lived in a city this segregated. Milwaukee’s very behind in terms of being progressive. There are things that need to change rapidly.”

"Leadership and change starts from the top down — with our owners being progressive," he said. "They encourage players that also want to be forward thinking. For them to support Peter Feigin is a big sign and encourages us to do the same. To speak out for what is good and right.”

He did not like city and I know this first hand. And people personally around him also know that.
It's really not up for debate.

OK anonymous dude on a message board. I'll take your word for it!

[rrayy]

Regardless, my point is a good one and it's not trying to convince anyone of anything. Brogdon is s good player but a replaceable one.

It amzes me people acting around here like Milwaukee cannot win a championship without Brogdon and that he is KD. Brogdon is not nearly as irreplaceable as those guys think.

[brewbucks]

Well you certainly aren't framing it as deduction and theory, I think that's the issue.

And everyone else is framing their theory as that? That’s certainly not the case. If I put that this was my principle conclusion I would sound like I’m going to write an essay. It’s a message board.


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You stated it as a fact. If you don't know the difference between fact and opinion based on no facts, then ok. Bottom line is there are no incidents or facts to come to that conclusion. If I state that henson was traded because he hated Milwaukee because of the racial incident he was involved in, it would be plausible, but not based on any facts. Yet the henson incident was real.

Someone has already pointed out that signing with Indie makes your "no facts theory" implausible.

Here's what's plausible. The Bucks didn't want to pay him that amount of money and got the best deal they could get.

And by the way, Brogdon is low key and walks around looking sullen, just like he did at virginia. But everything he said was positive. he said he loved Bud and was happy here. I don't use this as proof, but he went out if his way to say those things.

Henson was always out and about in Milwaukee and made it known he liked the city.

[BJ Sandered]

Brogdon may have either communicated to the team or his agent that he'd like a bigger role and that's completely fine. I personally think the front office was convinced he was the most expendable of the core guys when he went down with the injury and the team didn't really skip a beat.

I think that definitely played a factor here. They had a number in mind and they weren't going to exceed it because he was deemed the most expendable.

[M-C-G]

We went 18-8 without Brogdon this year which included playoff games. That is a 57 win pace.

I would have brought Brogdon back over Middleton for sure but this isn’t a catastrophic loss, especially with getting picks back and whatever we can turn that and the TPE into. For instance if you turn this into Eric Gordon it would likely make us much better.

I love Brogdon and wish him well but we chose Middleton over him, so let’s see how the rest plays out.


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[humanrefutation]

Is there a single person who would’ve been upset if we brought Brogdon back at that number? I don’t believe there was.

It would have been more than I wanted to pay, but I would have respected the reasons for "running it back" and moved on to getting ready for the next season.

[60611]

I like Brogdon, I really did. Good player, very smart. Good spot up shooter, nice defender. Not great, but nice. Had that great move to the hole.
Malcom is a nice piece and he will need to be replaced, but replacing what he gave is not some impossible task. They didn't lose 2006 Dyane Wade here.

Remember, Malcom did play the entire Raptor series with fresh legs and no rust and had minimal effect on the series. People are acting like this team is now done without Malcom.
Well they just had Malcom and the team still lost 4 in a row and Brogdon did not play well either.

So far with Hill, Khris and Lopez returning. Malcom is really the only lost piece. It's a good piece, but one that can absolutely be overcome.

The human brain is a funny thing. I guess we can convince ourselves of anything if we try hard enough.

Going into game 6 (sorry, don’t have updated stats with G6 included), the Bucks have a net rating of +12.6 in 116 minutes with Malcolm Brogdon and -11.5 in 86 minutes without him. Brogdon has been by far their best defender on Kawhi, holding him to 12-of-35 shooting (34.3 percent) in 110 possessions as the primary defender.

Pretty sure Khris was the best defensed on Kawhi? If not, right up there.
Regardless, my point is a good one and it's not trying to convince anyone of anything. Brogdon is s good player but a replaceable one.

No, you are flatly wrong. For the series, Kawhi was 31-55 (56.4%) with Khris as his primary defender. Kawhi was 16-45 (35.6%) with Malcolm as his primary defender.

[paulpressey25]

Is there a single person who would’ve been upset if we brought Brogdon back at that number? I don’t believe there was.

This is a really interesting way to phrase it.

I wouldn’t have been upset, as I’d have preferred to let Middleton walk and keep Brogdon and sign Bojan (which could have been done and retained Lopez and Hill).

That said, the fact we got three picks plus a $12mm TPE out of it was real value. Add in the foot injuries and age, I can get on board with the deal depending on what we do with those other assets.

[theFireBlanket]

Henson was always out and about in Milwaukee and made it known he liked the city.

In spite of those Schwanke-Kasten fools. Lol.

[blazza18]

How have we still got no more details on this?