Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

[BigO]

So we lose Snell, Brogdon, Mirotic and now you want to get rid of Ersan? What strength do they all have in common? What is Bud's favorite skillset?

[HaroldinGMinor]

So we lose Snell, Brogdon, Mirotic and now you want to get rid of Ersan? What strength do they all have in common? What is Bud's favorite skillset?

shotgunning beers

[soxperry]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

[bucksfansince88]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

Wouldnt be until December right or can Russell be traded in September with Bledsoe? also, I imagine they could much more for Russell when they put him on the market.

[old skool]

I am surprised that the Bucks let Brogdon leave for 4/$85-million. I thought they would match.

The one thing that tempers my feelings on this is that Brogdon has missed so many games with injury. His lack of availability should not be ignored. The reality is that in the last two seasons, Brogdon has been considerably less productive in most major statistical categories than Khris Middleton. If, for the length of their soon to be signed contracts, those players perform at the same levels that they did in the last two seasons, Middleton will cost less per point scored. And less per rebound secured. Less per assist made. Less per steal. The only major stat category where Brogdon is paid less than Middleton is in blocks - a category where neither player excels.

Brogdon is clearly the more efficient player, with great shooting percentages in all areas. But to attain those elite percentages, it appears that he has to spend a lot of time sitting on the sidelines or on the bench. So much that his new contract would be more expensive per point, rebound, assist and steal than Middleton's near max deal would cost the Bucks. Near max Middleton might not perform any better than he has in the past, but there is nothing about Brogdon that indicates he will improve either. And Brogdon is only 15 months younger than Middleton.

The Bucks are less of a team without Brogdon. I don't think Hill can replace his productivity, because at age 32 Hill has many of the same availability issues as Brogdon. But Brogdon's productivity at 4 years/$85 mil would cost more per unit than near max Middleton. Let that sink in before getting too upset at the Buck's failure to match.

[skones]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

You cannot combine a TPE with a player.

[NomNomNomParker]

I think people are under estimating the impact Donte could have with us. He had some pretty great moments in limited action and with a year under his belt and hopefully injury problems behind him, he could really excel.

[machu46]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

According to this link, we can't combine the TPE (assuming we even get it) with a player.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/hoops-rumors-glossary-traded-player-exception.html

Trade exceptions created in non-simultaneous trades can’t be combined with one another, with other exceptions, or with a player’s salary; they can’t be used to sign a free agent; and they can’t be traded outright to another team.

[ajb905]

I am surprised that the Bucks let Brogdon leave for 4/$85-million. I thought they would match.

The one thing that tempers my feelings on this is that Brogdon has missed so many games with injury. His lack of availability should not be ignored. The reality is that in the last two seasons, Brogdon has been considerably less productive in most major statistical categories than Khris Middleton. If, for the length of their soon to be signed contracts, those players perform at the same levels that they did in the last two seasons, Middleton will cost less per point scored. And less per rebound secured. Less per assist made. Less per steal. The only major stat category where Brogdon is paid less than Middleton is in blocks - a category where neither player excels.

Brogdon is clearly the more efficient player, with great shooting percentages in all areas. But to attain those elite percentages, it appears that he has to spend a lot of time sitting on the sidelines or on the bench. So much that his new contract would be more expensive per point, rebound, assist and steal than Middleton's near max deal would cost the Bucks. Near max Middleton might not perform any better than he has in the past, but there is nothing about Brogdon that indicates he will improve either. And Brogdon is only 15 months younger than Middleton.

The Bucks are less of a team without Brogdon. I don't think Hill can replace his productivity, because at age 32 Hill has many of the same availability issues as Brogdon. But Brogdon's productivity at 4 years/$85 mil would cost more per unit than near max Middleton. Let that sink in before getting too upset at the Buck's failure to match.

I like Hill but he has averaged 59 games the past 5 years and is going into his age 33 season. I don't know Brogdon's med reports, but Bucks are at point where they can win a championship. They need difference making talent and Brogdon definitely is someone who'd I want in the playoffs.

The picks/TPE in the Indiana deal are what makes me hesitant to completely bash letting him go. At the deadline the Bucks could still strike for a difference maker w/ a 1st. Maybe it works out, but I'd much rather have put Hill's $$$ towards Brogdon and signed a backup PG on the cheap.

[LUKE23]

I'll be pretty surprised if the pick isn't lotto protected.

[soxperry]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

According to this link, we can't combine the TPE (assuming we even get it) with a player.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/hoops-rumors-glossary-traded-player-exception.html

Trade exceptions created in non-simultaneous trades can’t be combined with one another, with other exceptions, or with a player’s salary; they can’t be used to sign a free agent; and they can’t be traded outright to another team.

i wonder what "non-simultaneous trade" means. i also wonder if we are looking at expanding this to a three team trade so that we can bring in someone who makes more than 12M in a scenario where we would package a little more outgoing salary. i wonder if that's against the rules of sign and trades.

i would expect that we are looking at every possible option right now and if we do in fact have a shot at a TPE we will go to great length to use it to get another player.

here's a funny thing, outside of Ersan it's sort of hard to think of anyone who you would want to ship out to dump salary.. even Ersan's deal isn't terrible though with the team option and he's certainly valuable to us.

[machu46]

$12M TPE + Bledsoe + Indy 1st = Deangelo Russell?

According to this link, we can't combine the TPE (assuming we even get it) with a player.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/hoops-rumors-glossary-traded-player-exception.html

Trade exceptions created in non-simultaneous trades can’t be combined with one another, with other exceptions, or with a player’s salary; they can’t be used to sign a free agent; and they can’t be traded outright to another team.

i wonder what "non-simultaneous trade" means. i also wonder if we are looking at expanding this to a three team trade so that we can bring in someone who makes more than 12M in a scenario where we would package a little more outgoing salary. i wonder if that's against the rules of sign and trades.

i would expect that we are looking at every possible option right now and if we do in fact have a shot at a TPE we will go to great length to use it to get another player.

here's a funny thing, outside of Ersan it's sort of hard to think of anyone who you would want to ship out to dump salary.. even Ersan's deal isn't terrible though with the team option and he's certainly valuable to us.

Non-simultaneous trade is basically just a fancy way of saying it's a trade that creates a TPE. The literal definition is that it's a two-part trade and you have a year to complete the second part. So in this case, the Brogdon trade creating the TPE is the first part of a non-simultaneous trade. Whenever we use the TPE, that completes it.

[MickeyDavis]

I don't think it matters if it's lotto protected. Indy won't be in the lottery any time soon

[soxperry]

I'll be pretty surprised if the pick isn't lotto protected.

of course it will be, but that's not really relevant. the Pacers have a very solid floor. they won't be in the lotto.

if we get lucky this could be a very good pick in the mid teens. they aren't finishing top 4 in the east, though, so i'm not worried about the other end of things.

[soxperry]

According to this link, we can't combine the TPE (assuming we even get it) with a player.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/02/hoops-rumors-glossary-traded-player-exception.html

i wonder what "non-simultaneous trade" means. i also wonder if we are looking at expanding this to a three team trade so that we can bring in someone who makes more than 12M in a scenario where we would package a little more outgoing salary. i wonder if that's against the rules of sign and trades.

i would expect that we are looking at every possible option right now and if we do in fact have a shot at a TPE we will go to great length to use it to get another player.

here's a funny thing, outside of Ersan it's sort of hard to think of anyone who you would want to ship out to dump salary.. even Ersan's deal isn't terrible though with the team option and he's certainly valuable to us.

Non-simultaneous trade is basically just a fancy way of saying it's a trade that creates a TPE. The literal definition is that it's a two-part trade and you have a year to complete the second part. So in this case, the Brogdon trade creating the TPE is the first part of a non-simultaneous trade. Whenever we use the TPE, that completes it.

okay, cool, thanks!

so then for two teams that are over the cap the 125% rule applies?

[humanrefutation]

I think the easiest way to explain a TPE is just to say that it's a void in your salary sheet that you can use to absorb a contract you otherwise wouldn't be able to acquire due to being over the cap. It's not an asset that can be "traded" to another team. So if the Bucks can find a $10M player available elsewhere, they can use the TPE to absorb that deal without the other team having to take on any salary in return.

[Nowak008]

Could we get Waiters + picks for the TPE? Heat are trying to clear salary.

[Buck Dweller]

Guys, we got a first and two seconds for Brogdon. A guy who wanted out and who got signed to a $22mm per year average deal but missed two months at the end of the last two years.

I loved Brogdon, but this outcome was ok. I thought we were going to lose him for nothing.

Even without the protection on the first, it’s probable to be 15+. That’s not helping us for at least the next couple years, unless they’re able to use it to facilitate a trade. Well have to wait and see, but I wouldn’t expect much given we don’t have many guys to trade and the pick itself is pretty lousy anyway. The seconds...meh, you can always buy those in that range.

To me this is looking like they basically lost their best shooter and a core 30+ MPG guy for next to nothing meaningful unless that pick facilitates a trade, which is a big if. Really puzzling decision given Giannis’ expiring contract coming up, unless you consider the owners didn’t want additional support back for Brogdon because it saved them the tax...

[JimmyTheKid]

Ugh.

[BuckHole]

20 million a year for Malcolm seems like too much. I believe we made the right move.
Who wants the honors of updating Malcolm’s Wikipedia page on his S&T?