OT: What the hell is wrong with the Cubs?

[madvillian]

They can't hit with runners in scoring position. Near the very bottom of the NL in that category. Only beating bad teams. Extremely inconsistent. Top 2 pitchers out. Darvish bad. Schwarber isn't and has never been as good as they think he is. They hit homers but don't move runners on base. Some terrible trades, some terrible signings. They traded Eloy and Cease which will hurt for years and aggressively traded all of the prospects they spent years acquiring to win "in the window". Cannot bring up a home grown pitching prospect to save their life. Bryant hurt alot. Blame to go around everywhere.

I cannot be more thankful for the World Series and would not change anything. But they decided to blow up the farm to win it again and it has backfired.

Passionate post respeckt. Last time I was in ST, down in Temp, at the Cardinals fans (this was the year after you guys one it so 2017) were rocking a "Congrats Cubs fans 108 years until year next".

Then it looked like wishful thinking by their fans but you guys really don't have nearly enough pitching and the trading of Torres and Eloy, while helpful at the time, shortened the window by 3-4 years.

But ya got the one.

Trading Eloy for something is understandable when you consider he is limited to average at best in left. Possibly a future 1st baseman occasional DH. Rizzo isnt going anywhere. Adding Cease on top was the question really. We will see on Cease. He was lit up the last few games in Charlotte.

I really don't care how his defense looks in left if he's hitting 300/350/600 which he should be capable of in his prime. He won't approach the WAR levels of Moncada or perhaps even Robert but he's a pure cleanup hitting slugger that will have a chance for a game changing blast or rocket 5 times a night. There isn't a team in the league that would trade that for what Q has been on the Northside.

It was one of those trades that when it happened pretty much every Sox fan was over the moon about it as they almost THREW IN Cease when they already **** had the deal done just by saying "Eloy". Hahn played Theo on that one.

I'm not a huge Hahn fan but his trades have pretty much been spot on since the rebuild started. Could complain about the Rutherford trade but that's small potatoes at this point can't get a stud in every deal.

[fleet]

Sure yeah, Q is the other part of the question admittedly. Hes been declining for a few years which began before the deal. I'd like to know what other pitchers were out there. The Sox said no other team approached them like that for Q. Rutherford kind of woke up recently btw.

[MalagaBulls]

Another 2 terrible games. This is now past small sample. Bryant was dreadful tonight with 4 K's.

[Jeffster81]

The Cubs are broken and I don't know if they have time to fix what ails them before the deadline.

This team is CLEARLY simply going through the motions. Physically they are still here but mentally this team is already on ASB.

With that said, I want Decalso, Russell, Brach gone.

[Dominator83]

They can't hit with runners in scoring position. Near the very bottom of the NL in that category. Only beating bad teams. Extremely inconsistent. Top 2 pitchers out. Darvish bad. Schwarber isn't and has never been as good as they think he is. They hit homers but don't move runners on base. Some terrible trades, some terrible signings. They traded Eloy and Cease which will hurt for years and aggresively traded all of the prospects they spent years acquiring to win "in the window". Cannot bring up a home grown pitching prospect to save their life. Bryant hurt alot. Blame to go around everywhere.

cannot be more thankful for the World Series and would not change anything. But they decided to blow up the farm to win it again and it has backfired.

Well the Eloy/cease for Quintana trade was AFTER the WS season.

You can't argue with the results on the Chapman trade, but man. Giving up Gleybar to rent Chapman for 3 months was steep

[MalagaBulls]

They are currently 27th in RISP and that has been a huge issue all season. But both Darvish & Q have severely underwhelmed. And you have Russell, Schwarber, & Almora who are barely above average MLB players. Descalso should be DFA'd already.

[Bandit King]

Pitching sucks, and the hitters are not hitting with consistently. Firing the hitting coach didn't help.

[jacoby1us]

Very depressing to be losing series to the dam Pirates and Reds. This is utterly ridiculous, not to mention splitting the series with the White Sox.

[Sebastian]

Very depressing to be losing series to the dam Pirates and Reds. This is utterly ridiculous, not to mention splitting the series with the White Sox.

Hey we (the Sox) are kinda good now. .500 team on the way up. Reminds me of you guys right before you became contenders. I'm hoping the Cubs get it together and have a good offseason so we can have both sides of town playing playoff baseball in the same postseason in 2020 and beyond.

[MalagaBulls]

Just saw the 9th inning meltdown from last night, really deflating. JHey is in and catches that guaranteed and then there are 2 outs with a probable different outcome. But hecwas hurt so what do I know.

[MalagaBulls]

They limp into the ASB with a terrible road record, terrible RISP hitting, and absolutely boneheaded base running, D, and managing. Going on record now saying they don't win squat. No div title or WC.

[jacoby1us]

This team is killing me!
What the hell is going on? Maddon might not make it

[Betta Bulleavit]

This team is killing me!
What the hell is going on? Maddon might not make it

It’s always easy to have this type of reaction during or after a bad loss. But Houston got killed by the Sox today. It happens. We get rid of Maddon, it had better be in favor of somebody that’s going to be able to come right in and have us back in the World Series next year. Period. No grace period. No excuses. Maddon’s successor doesn’t get this luxuries after what he’s done.

[dougthonus]

This team is killing me!
What the hell is going on? Maddon might not make it

It’s always easy to have this type of reaction during or after a bad loss. But Houston got killed by the Sox today. It happens. We get rid of Maddon, it had better be in favor of somebody that’s going to be able to come right in and have us back in the World Series next year. Period. No grace period. No excuses. Maddon’s successor doesn’t get this luxuries after what he’s done.

I don't care about the Cubs, but this general thought seems a bit black or white to me.

1: You get rid of Maddon if you feel you can get someone better.
2: Get the best person you can.

If Maddon is still the best manager you feel you can get for this team, then you keep him.

The Cubs are good enough to have a goal of winning the world series, but that is probably still reasonably unlikely regardless of who manages it. If a new manager comes in and doesn't win the world series it doesn't make him a failure or the move to get rid of Maddon a bad one.

It's great that Maddon managed the Cubs to a world series win, and he'll be a Chicago icon forever for that much like Quenville, Ditka, and Jackson. However, it doesn't mean he gets a job for life. There are plenty of Cubs players that helped with that world series win that are now gone. Manager's actually are much less valuable assets than players (not my theory, but a theory born out by the salary of managers vs the salary of players, with no cap in place teams could spend anything they want on either and obviously feel players make a much bigger difference). Maddon shouldn't be any more untouchable than them.

[Betta Bulleavit]

This team is killing me!
What the hell is going on? Maddon might not make it

It’s always easy to have this type of reaction during or after a bad loss. But Houston got killed by the Sox today. It happens. We get rid of Maddon, it had better be in favor of somebody that’s going to be able to come right in and have us back in the World Series next year. Period. No grace period. No excuses. Maddon’s successor doesn’t get this luxuries after what he’s done.

I don't care about the Cubs, but this general thought seems a bit black or white to me.

1: You get rid of Maddon if you feel he's lost the team.
2: You get rid of Maddon if you feel you can get someone better.
3: Get the best person you can.

The Cubs are good enough to have a goal of winning the world series, but that is probably still reasonably unlikely regardless of who manages it. If a new manager comes in and doesn't win the world series it doesn't make him a failure or the move to get rid of Maddon a bad one.

It's great that Maddon managed the Cubs to a world series win, and he'll be a Chicago icon forever for that much like Quenville, Ditka, and Jackson. However, it doesn't mean he gets a job for life. There are plenty of Cubs players that helped with that world series win that are now gone. Manager's actually are much less valuable assets than players (not my theory, but a theory born out by the salary of managers vs the salary of players, with no cap in place teams could spend anything they want on either and obviously feel players make a much bigger difference). Maddon shouldn't be any more untouchable than them.

It’s just the fact that the Cubs have been a playoff contender literally the entire time that Maddon has been here. What he’s done (talent be damned) is extremely hard to do. Especially when you consider the players he’s lost. The injuries that he’s had to deal with to significant players. I’m not saying that he’s irreplaceable. What I am saying is that you don’t let him go unless you know for certain that you have someone that’s just as good or better. I feel like that’s a fairly reasonable expectation.

[jacoby1us]

This is crunch time and their performance against the Phillies has been awful

[Kurt Heimlich]

The drastic home/road split is bizarre. But the flaws of this team are fairly obvious. Aging, aceless pitching staff that for some reason this year cant pitch away from wrigley plus bullpen health/talent deficiency. The lineup is good but not elite. Obvious weakness being the everlasting blackhole that is whoever is put at leadoff.

Maddon will be the fall guy deserved or not. A lame duck expiring manager is way easier to change than an expensive, depreciating roster.

[dougthonus]

It’s just the fact that the Cubs have been a playoff contender literally the entire time that Maddon has been here. What he’s done (talent be damned) is extremely hard to do. Especially when you consider the players he’s lost. The injuries that he’s had to deal with to significant players. I’m not saying that he’s irreplaceable. What I am saying is that you don’t let him go unless you know for certain that you have someone that’s just as good or better. I feel like that’s a fairly reasonable expectation.

That I agree with, I guess I was just saying the world series part seemed a bit much to me, but I'm with you.

[Betta Bulleavit]

The drastic home/road split is bizarre. But the flaws of this team are fairly obvious. Aging, aceless pitching staff that for some reason this year cant pitch away from wrigley plus bullpen health/talent deficiency. The lineup is good but not elite. Obvious weakness being the everlasting blackhole that is whoever is put at leadoff.

Maddon will be the fall guy deserved or not. A lame duck expiring manager is way easier to change than an expensive, depreciating roster.

As unfortunate as it is, this could turn out to be the case. The thing is, outside of the Dodgers, everybody in the NL seems to have glaring holes. The bottom line is that it’s time for Theo to make some tough decisions with this rosters. Not blow it up. But we need to seriously assess who our core guys are and start selling off some guys for young talent. Like you said, our starting pitching is aging and inconsistent. We need a real lead off hitter, which we should be able to get. And we need to start replenishing our farm system, which is usually the case with perennial contenders. None of those things are going to be fixed by opting not to retain Maddon and I really hope they know that.

[Betta Bulleavit]

It’s just the fact that the Cubs have been a playoff contender literally the entire time that Maddon has been here. What he’s done (talent be damned) is extremely hard to do. Especially when you consider the players he’s lost. The injuries that he’s had to deal with to significant players. I’m not saying that he’s irreplaceable. What I am saying is that you don’t let him go unless you know for certain that you have someone that’s just as good or better. I feel like that’s a fairly reasonable expectation.

That I agree with, I guess I was just saying the world series part seemed a bit much to me, but I'm with you.

I suppose the World Series part is a bit extreme. I think my real point is that Maddon has proven himself to be a prime time level manager. So his replacement should be of a similar caliber. Otherwise, it’d just come off as Theo passing the buck.