Trade for Westbrook?

[A_dub06]

That’s exactly my point. If we were to open capspace, we’d hope to sign a player like Westbrook and possibly move assets (players+picks) to open space and everyone would applaud the free agent signing. But those same fans don’t want to part with players+picks in a trade for that same player.

Actually if we had the cap space and RW was a free agent I think you would find all of us against trading for him would also be against signing him. And no, I would not be open to moving assets to open up cap space because cap space in Detroit isn’t valuable in terms of signing free agents.

I understand how infuriating/underwhelming/depressing the team has been but as fanatics of this team let’s aim our sights on the real glory which is winning a championship and stop going for short term moves that at best will only improve how watchable the team is. If you’re mature enough to admit this team with RW isn’t making the conference finals then you should also be able to see that trading assets for him only gives us less assets towards the rebuild which will inevitably come one way or another and will also lower the ceiling of that rebuild.

This team isn’t winning a championship with or without Westbrook. As I’ve stated that numerous times, and I’m pretty sure everyone here is literate to a point, I feel it’s redundant to continue saying as such. Also, I’ve stated that the team, without a plan or competence is inadequate in completing a “rebuild” my only motive is for entertainment purposes. Now, if you’ve been a fan for more than 5 seasons and are mature enough to recognize that
stockpiling “assets” will not help us in either the short or long term, you enjoy the whimsical nature of offseason shenanigans and rumors.

Obviously, but our chances of assembling a contending team improve considerably when we actually embrace and commit to a rebuild via the draft. Trading for RW will cost us FRP’s and thus the chance of getting young, high ceiling players which can actually help us build the required foundation for a championship. If we commit to rebuilding in 2 years time, it will be another 3/4 years of poor records before we have assembled enough players, during which time all the super teams currently assembled would either no longer be together or nowhere near where they once were.

You are blind and ignorant if you actually think stockpiling assets won’t help us in the long term. For a team like Detroit it’s the only way for us to actually build a decent team. Trading for RW is very much aligned with the status quo we have experienced of making terrible trades/signings that hamper our ability to rebuild. If you want real change, it’s committing to a rebuild.

[Manocad]

I like how ONE YEAR of not giving away picks/assets to get "win now" players is suddenly labeled a useless gesture of "stockpiling" picks/assets.

[buzzkilloton]

With Dre/Blake/Westbrook all the money is spent. You cant lure anyone else on the team. This is the same problem the Thunder just had they couldnt add to the roster due to being capped out and they had just lost 4-1 to the blazers in the first round.

Huh? You would get other players through drafts, trades, mid level exceptions and vet mins.

The draft? You mean the draft where we would be trading away our picks and then drafting around #20? Trades with which assets? We won’t have as Lenard would be included in the deal and Sekou would need to be packaged with another below average player diluting the value of the trade? No above average vets are going to sign here for the minimum where they could go to many different teams offering a better chance at a championship and the same for MLE’s unless we can offer them a starting position and even then it’s murky.

Yeah were not going to suddenly be the free agent destination due to getting Westbrook. The Thunder havent got one good min value free agent.

[Liqourish]

Actually if we had the cap space and RW was a free agent I think you would find all of us against trading for him would also be against signing him. And no, I would not be open to moving assets to open up cap space because cap space in Detroit isn’t valuable in terms of signing free agents.

I understand how infuriating/underwhelming/depressing the team has been but as fanatics of this team let’s aim our sights on the real glory which is winning a championship and stop going for short term moves that at best will only improve how watchable the team is. If you’re mature enough to admit this team with RW isn’t making the conference finals then you should also be able to see that trading assets for him only gives us less assets towards the rebuild which will inevitably come one way or another and will also lower the ceiling of that rebuild.

This team isn’t winning a championship with or without Westbrook. As I’ve stated that numerous times, and I’m pretty sure everyone here is literate to a point, I feel it’s redundant to continue saying as such. Also, I’ve stated that the team, without a plan or competence is inadequate in completing a “rebuild” my only motive is for entertainment purposes. Now, if you’ve been a fan for more than 5 seasons and are mature enough to recognize that
stockpiling “assets” will not help us in either the short or long term, you enjoy the whimsical nature of offseason shenanigans and rumors.

Obviously, but our chances of assembling a contending team improve considerably when we actually embrace and commit to a rebuild via the draft. Trading for RW will cost us FRP’s and thus the chance of getting young, high ceiling players which can actually help us build the required foundation for a championship. If we commit to rebuilding in 2 years time, it will be another 3/4 years of poor records before we have assembled enough players, during which time all the super teams currently assembled would either no longer be together or nowhere near where they once were.

You are blind and ignorant if you actually think stockpiling assets won’t help us in the long term. For a team like Detroit it’s the only way for us to actually build a decent team. Trading for RW is very much aligned with the status quo we have experienced of making terrible trades/signings that hamper our ability to rebuild. If you want real change, it’s committing to a rebuild.

When has this team been successful committing to a rebuild via the draft? When has this team been successful drafting/developing players? You seem to be of this mindset that we can draft a championship in 2 years time. What if I told you, we won’t win a championship either way...?

[Neptune]

Huh? You would get other players through drafts, trades, mid level exceptions and vet mins.

The draft? You mean the draft where we would be trading away our picks and then drafting around #20? Trades with which assets? We won’t have as Lenard would be included in the deal and Sekou would need to be packaged with another below average player diluting the value of the trade? No above average vets are going to sign here for the minimum where they could go to many different teams offering a better chance at a championship and the same for MLE’s unless we can offer them a starting position and even then it’s murky.

Yeah were not going to suddenly be the free agent destination due to getting Westbrook. The Thunder havent got one good min value free agent.

Yall underestimate how winning attracts players. You can't compare WB/PG/Adams to WB/BG/AD because they were in two different conferences and Drummond is better than Adams.

[DetroitSho]

With Dre/Blake/Westbrook all the money is spent. You cant lure anyone else on the team. This is the same problem the Thunder just had they couldnt add to the roster due to being capped out and they had just lost 4-1 to the blazers in the first round.

Huh? You would get other players through drafts, trades, mid level exceptions and vet mins.

The draft? You mean the draft where we would be trading away our picks and then drafting around #20? Trades with which assets? We won’t have as Lenard would be included in the deal and Sekou would need to be packaged with another below average player diluting the value of the trade? No above average vets are going to sign here for the minimum where they could go to many different teams offering a better chance at a championship and the same for MLE’s unless we can offer them a starting position and even then it’s murky.

Are you not old enough to remember when the team signed Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris to come off the bench?

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app

[Neptune]

Huh? You would get other players through drafts, trades, mid level exceptions and vet mins.

The draft? You mean the draft where we would be trading away our picks and then drafting around #20? Trades with which assets? We won’t have as Lenard would be included in the deal and Sekou would need to be packaged with another below average player diluting the value of the trade? No above average vets are going to sign here for the minimum where they could go to many different teams offering a better chance at a championship and the same for MLE’s unless we can offer them a starting position and even then it’s murky.

Are you not old enough to remember when the team signed Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris to come off the bench?

Sent from my SM-G955U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly man!

[pistonsbball]

I would give up Dre in the trade and I wouldn't take back Adams. If your big man can't shoot or isn't an all nba player then there's no point paying max money at that spot. Dre can be dominant, but ultimately is too mentally weak and isn't a natural basketball player.

I think we could get a third team like Boston to take him and have OKC get more assets back.

Russ is almost underrated now. He has shot selection and shooting issues, but overall he's still a great playmaker and basketball player. Best of all he plays hard every night.

I wouldn't give up Sekou or more than 1 first rd pick.

[zeebneeb]

I just dont get the "rebuild" talk whatsoever.

It isnt like the team may end up with some has been, or marginal talent that may not move the needle here.

It's an MVP player that will be paired with 2 other all stars and all nba players!

Mortgaging the future? What future? The 15th pick? WTF?

If you want a rebuild you ship it ALL out for picks, but this half assed "keep this guy, trade this guy...

Nope, that's not a rebuild, that is the exact definition of treadmill. Taking a shot with westbrook is not a treadmill move at all. Its combining a ton of talent and hoping it works! Not to mention some high quality pieces on the bench, and the distinct possibility of making even another move if enough assets are left over!

How many times does an MVP player, still in their prime become available, AND at a position the team clearly needs an upgrade at? Would I like to give up the moon? No, but keeping this team intact, and making marginal moves will accomplish absolutely nothing. This move at least gives the team a shot at greatness.

Me watching, let alone going to games next year is contingent on them doing something to move the needle. Thus far, nothing has been done to garner any monetary support, or viewing support. Just more of the same. This would fire up everyone.

Make bold moves, or blow it up. No more of this incremental, or sideways shuffle horsecrap.

We’ve built two great teams in 30 years. No one involved with those teams is currently associated with this organization. This current regime has proved only that they lack a plan. If they can somehow manage to trade for a top ten talent, that adds entertainment value to the team. Outside of that, we have nothing.

Yet somehow, fans want more of nothing. More money we can’t spent and picks we won’t develop. The more “nothing” we have the better. I don’t get it at all.

Ahhh the hypocrisy ripe. So the teams stagnant and can’t possibly ever win but RW is somehow is going to add value? Please.

This team has been a treadmill team lacking planning, calculated risks and savy cap decisions but finally (and I say this incredibly lightly) the team appears to be moving in a manor which suggests we could finally be planning for the rebuild in a couple seasons. I don’t trust Ed’s track record, but he has only signed guys to two year deals and he has even drafted a high upside young prospect. Clearly we are waiting for all of these long term deals to come off the books and after 2 more seasons we could finally be off the Dre and Blake contracts with nothing but clean books which we can then use to acquire picks using our cap space and go all in on the youth movement.

Hypocrisy? What? Either a player is good, or not good.

Fact remains Westbrook is an upgrade over Reggie.

It's not a difficult thing here.

[Cowology]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

[theBigLip]

Just getting back from Vegas, I like the possibility of getting RW, but I'm not sure if he has a positive value contract, and I think it is safe to say Adams doesn't either. I don't think Kennard or any FRPs from us should be offered. So if Drummond, RJ, and I guess Snell to balance out the salaries, I'm down. Of course we still need some help on the wings, and we'll have to be creative to get that done, but if I wake up tomorrow and this is a done deal, I'll be happy and looking forward to us getting home court advantage in this year's playoffs.

[Snakebites]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

[haulerch]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

Nothing, but his boss is Tom Gores.

[Manocad]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

Then pass on Westbrook and take on another terrible contract in the future. Obviously if you know this will happen and we the fans have a choice, I'll take the latter.

[Snakebites]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

Nothing, but his boss is Tom Gores.

I think people are overestimating how much he micromanages the team. We haven't traded any first rounders in 2 offseasons since SVG left. We signed only short term deals, traded for only short term contracts.

Think Gores was clamoring for full MLE to Galloway? What about Jon Leuer? I bought the Gores narrative too, but now that I think of it SVG's short sightedness is a sufficient explanation for the years he was with us.

[Cowology]

"Holding out" until we can clear salary or rebuild is a pipe dream. We are *going* to continue making win-now moves regardless of future implications. If not Westbrook it will be another albatross contract either later this year or next.

In that context we should be judging any potential Westbrook trade not against what we should do, but against other potential moves in line with Gores intentions.

In other words, we are going to make a bad move and cripple our future either way; are we likely to acquire a player better than Westbrook in the future? Or does waiting just mean we take on 1-2 terrible contracts for less talent in the future?

This is a legit question.

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

Nothing, but his boss is Tom Gores.

ding ding ding!!

Besides, the fact we're even discussing Westbrook pretty much answers that question. The real question for Ed isn't whether he'll keep us on the same path, but whether he can manuever that path a bit more deftly than his predecessors.

[ComboGuardCity]

The Blake move wasn’t even a bad move...we got an all nba player for a late lotto pick.

[Snakebites]

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

Nothing, but his boss is Tom Gores.

ding ding ding!!

Besides, the fact we're even discussing Westbrook pretty much answers that question. The real question for Ed isn't whether he'll keep us on the same path, but whether he can manuever that path a bit more deftly than his predecessors.

With a boss of Tom Gores for well over a year. Still nothing resembling the same pattern.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. I don't know. I think there's enough evidence here to suggest the pattern could be changing. Either way, I'd rather evaluate moves on their own merit than against our own speculations about what they're likely to do in the future. Because we don't know.

[DBC10]

Huh? You would get other players through drafts, trades, mid level exceptions and vet mins.

The draft? You mean the draft where we would be trading away our picks and then drafting around #20? Trades with which assets? We won’t have as Lenard would be included in the deal and Sekou would need to be packaged with another below average player diluting the value of the trade? No above average vets are going to sign here for the minimum where they could go to many different teams offering a better chance at a championship and the same for MLE’s unless we can offer them a starting position and even then it’s murky.

Are you not old enough to remember when the team signed Derrick Rose and Markieff Morris to come off the bench?

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He said above average. And they weren't acquired via vet min level contracts, only via our portion of MLE and BAE.

And people forget that they both fell off a cliff after all Star break.

[Manocad]

What has Ed done to suggest this is what he’ll do?

Nothing, but his boss is Tom Gores.

ding ding ding!!

Besides, the fact we're even discussing Westbrook pretty much answers that question.

You'll have to throw me a bone on this one, because I don't see how fans in a forum discussing pros and cons of a trade make it a very real possibility when there has been zero indication from the team ownership/management that it could happen.