Peaks project update: #3

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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#41 » by ardee » Sun Jul 7, 2019 4:18 am

No-more-rings wrote:
ardee wrote:1. 1967 Wilt Chamberlain

Already spoken about him ad nauseum. Nikola Jokic on offense minus the 3 plus Tyson Chandler efficiency, and Rudy Gobert on defense. 24/24/8 on 68% shooting would likely yield something like 20/17/6 on league leading efficiency with DPoY level defense in 2019. To me, that would easily make him the best player in the league and though I moved 2017 LeBron to no. 1 in hindsight I still have him ahead of Jordan and Shaq at 2.

2. 1964 Wilt Chamberlain

IMO he comes out on top over 2000 Shaq by a little bit. This was his best defensive year and IMO it's comparable to Robinson/Hakeem/Duncan. Shaq never reached that level. Shaq was probably a bit ahead as a scorer but not by much, Wilt's efficiency actually increased in the Playoffs this time (35/25 on 54.3% from the field), and Wilt was a better passer already.

3. 2000 Shaq

The arguments have already been made.

You think 67 Wilt was merely Gobert level on defense?


It's a euphemism using modern players as an analogy. He was better for sure.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#42 » by 70sFan » Sun Jul 7, 2019 9:44 am

1. 1967 Wilt Chamberlain

I've said it so many times, I trully believe that he's GOAT in terms of individual season. Nobody combined such an unreal RS with so dominant playoffs. Top 5 defender ever and top 15 offensive player ever at his best, most dominant and smartest.

2. 1964 Wilt Chamberlain

Wilt's second best season in my opinion. Warriors were very dominant defensively mostly due to Wilt's dominance (and addition of rookie Thurmond). This was the first season when Wilt started playing more well-rounded basketball (thanks to the great Hannum) but his team wasn't good enough to play like 1966-68 Wilt. He still scored tons of points on elite efficiency but he also improved as a passer. Not to mention his ATG performance against the Hawks. Later I will try to provide some outstanding clips from that season.

3. 1977 Kareem-Abdul Jabbar

The best offensive season for any bigman. Possibly the best low post scorer in NBA history with underrated all-around game. This version is the best combination of early 1970s agression, defensive domination and late 1970s skillset and patience.

HMs to 2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan and 1993 Hakeem.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#43 » by Vladimir777 » Sun Jul 7, 2019 1:48 pm

euroleague wrote:
Vladimir777 wrote:So how do you guys do your research for threads like these? Do you already know the big contenders for each spot and then just compare stats for those seasons? Read up on the best players individually? I’m curious as to the methodology used by the elite on the PC Board. I hope to one day vote in these types of threads, but I don’t know nearly enough about stats or the history to really add an opinion currently.

Typically there are many threads debating certain players and teams in both modern and historical contexts. From those threads, if you want to contribute you typically read up a bit to back up your point and confirm your input has some statistical/rhetorical foundation. After a few years, you get to know certain players pretty well.

Also, making your own list and doing some reading gives you context for how exactly each player ranks. reading up on other rankings is useful for comparison - such as ElG, ISH rankings, RealGM, etc.


Thanks! I might start by making a top 30 list of players last season (someone on here challenged me to do that a while ago), to get more comfortable with making lists.

What’s ISH, by the way?
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#44 » by Colbinii » Sun Jul 7, 2019 2:44 pm

Vladimir777 wrote:
euroleague wrote:
Vladimir777 wrote:So how do you guys do your research for threads like these? Do you already know the big contenders for each spot and then just compare stats for those seasons? Read up on the best players individually? I’m curious as to the methodology used by the elite on the PC Board. I hope to one day vote in these types of threads, but I don’t know nearly enough about stats or the history to really add an opinion currently.

Typically there are many threads debating certain players and teams in both modern and historical contexts. From those threads, if you want to contribute you typically read up a bit to back up your point and confirm your input has some statistical/rhetorical foundation. After a few years, you get to know certain players pretty well.

Also, making your own list and doing some reading gives you context for how exactly each player ranks. reading up on other rankings is useful for comparison - such as ElG, ISH rankings, RealGM, etc.


Thanks! I might start by making a top 30 list of players last season (someone on here challenged me to do that a while ago), to get more comfortable with making lists.

What’s ISH, by the way?


InsideHoops.com

Average level of discussion is closer to GB than this board in particular.

Another good forum to browse where
eminence wrote:
is active on is abpr.org .
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#45 » by Gibson22 » Sun Jul 7, 2019 6:29 pm

At the moment shaq 00 is at 36, wilt 1967 41,5
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#46 » by Gibson22 » Sun Jul 7, 2019 9:46 pm

Spoiler:
[quote="freethedevil"]


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[quote="Owly"]

[quote="Homer38"]
[quote="Joey Wheeler"]

[quote="Blackmill"]
[quote="Bel"]
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#47 » by Clyde Frazier » Sun Jul 7, 2019 9:57 pm

Ballot #1 - 00 Shaq

Shaq showed in 2000 why he has a case for the most dominant offensive force in NBA history. I'm sure some of you have been watching the games on NBA TV during shaq week, and it's a good reminder of how he really played. The notion that he was just bigger and stronger than everyone else is silly. His ability to create space and find the right angles on his array of post moves was exemplary. His decision making and physical quickness for his size was unmatched. This included passing out of the post when necessary.

It's noted by some that he didn't face the likes of hakeem, ewing, robinson, etc. on the way to his first championship. This is with the implication that he didn't hold his own in the past against those guys, which simply isn't true. Also, the lakers faced the 10th, 3rd, 5th and 13th ranked defenses on their way to the championship that season, so they were definitely tested.

Ballot #2 - 77 Kareem

I went back and forth between 71 and 77 for a while here. Part of me still wants to go with 71. However, my picking of 77 is 2 pronged:

- A player’s peak doesn’t necessarily have to come in a championship year
- 77 is post merger, which many feel increased the competition in the league

Using trex and bball ref’s per 100 #s, let’s look at 71 vs. 77:

71: 34.4 PPG, 16.9 RPG, 3.5 APG, +10.57% rTS
77: 32.7 PPG, 16.6 RPG, 4.8 APG, +9.7% rTS

On top of being incredible #s on their own, we see kareem performed about as well in 77 as he did in 71. This also included an excellent playoff performance with the following (keeping with per 100 here to be consistent):

37.8 PPG, 19.4 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.9 SPG, 3.8 BPG, 64.6% TS, .332 WS/48

His postseason would end in a sweep to the eventual champion blazers, who ranked 1st in SRS that season and 5th in defense. To say their front line of walton and lucas was solid would be a real understatement. They rounded out the roster with key guys like lionel hollins, bob gross and johnny davis. Outside of cazzie russell and lucius allen, the lakers roster was pretty bare. I’d say they performed to about as well as expected that season.

77 was his 5th MVP season, so it’s reasonable to say that kareem had reached his peak in terms of developing his game on both ends of the floor.

Some footage of kareem from 77





Ballot #3 - 67 Wilt

Since the main knock on wilt over the course of his career was putting himself before the team and maybe caring too much about his stats, I have to go with 67 as his peak.

I do find it compelling that he ultimately became part of what's widely considered a top 10 team of all time, and quite possibly the best team ever. He still put up great #s in the reg season, which included incredible efficiency (~+15% rTS). He still performed well across the board in their championship run with an unheard of 9 APG.

His ability to fit in with that team pretty seamlessly and not fall short of their goal really impressed me.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#48 » by dontcalltimeout » Sun Jul 7, 2019 10:43 pm

Ballot:

Shaq 00
Shaq 01
Wilt 67
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#49 » by ardee » Mon Jul 8, 2019 12:39 am

Looks like this will come down the wire.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#50 » by Gibson22 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 1:55 am

1) Wilt 1967
2) Shaq 00
3) KAJ 1977

Will give reasoning tomorrow when I wake up
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#51 » by Odinn21 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 2:11 am

ardee wrote:Looks like this will come down the wire.

#2 was closer than this.
LeBron's 2012-13 got 43.5 points and Shaq's 1999-00 got 42. If a voter wasn't late, you guys still could be discussing LeBron. :D

Currently Wilt in '67 with 50 points and Shaq in '00 with 48.

It'll be interesting to see Shaq being ranked 4th after being so close to being ranked 2nd. Heck, even 5th if he loses the next one too, lol.
The issue with per75 numbers;
36pts on 27 fga/9 fta in 36 mins, does this mean he'd keep up the efficiency to get 48pts on 36fga/12fta in 48 mins?
The answer; NO. He's human, not a linearly working machine.
Per75 is efficiency rate, not actual production.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#52 » by Colbinii » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:42 am

Odinn21 wrote:
ardee wrote:Looks like this will come down the wire.

#2 was closer than this.
LeBron's 2012-13 got 43.5 points and Shaq's 1999-00 got 42. If a voter wasn't late, you guys still could be discussing LeBron. :D

Currently Wilt in '67 with 50 points and Shaq in '00 with 48.

It'll be interesting to see Shaq being ranked 4th after being so close to being ranked 2nd. Heck, even 5th if he loses the next one too, lol.


This board is really high on Shaq so this looks surprising. I'm not as high on him but it's interesting seeing him "fall".
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#53 » by Lou Fan » Mon Jul 8, 2019 5:39 am

Ballot:
Shaq 00
Wilt 67
Duncan 03
smartyz456 wrote:Duncan would be a better defending jahlil okafor in todays nba
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#54 » by Gibson22 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 9:18 am

time to get your vote in guys
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#55 » by Gibson22 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 12:16 pm

Shaq is up by half a point, when it comes to cose races like this one de should have a deadline, since since we are at 5 and a half hours from the 3 days mark that Will be the mark
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#56 » by Colbinii » Mon Jul 8, 2019 3:48 pm

lebron3-14-3 wrote:Shaq is up by half a point, when it comes to cose races like this one de should have a deadline, since since we are at 5 and a half hours from the 3 days mark that Will be the mark


Set a deadline in the OP.

Peaks Project #4
Deadline: Thursday, July 11th at 11:59 PM
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#57 » by Mavericksfan » Mon Jul 8, 2019 5:20 pm

This seems kinda suspect. Why was it left up longer than the original deadline? Especially after you made a point to mention the initial topic went on for too long
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#58 » by E-Balla » Mon Jul 8, 2019 6:04 pm

Mavericksfan wrote:This seems kinda suspect. Why was it left up longer than the original deadline? Especially after you made a point to mention the initial topic went on for too long

We've gotten 5 ballots in since what should've been the deadline. I think his decision to delay is a good one that'll make the order on this list closer to the PC board consensus.
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#59 » by Mavericksfan » Mon Jul 8, 2019 6:25 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Mavericksfan wrote:This seems kinda suspect. Why was it left up longer than the original deadline? Especially after you made a point to mention the initial topic went on for too long

We've gotten 5 ballots in since what should've been the deadline. I think his decision to delay is a good one that'll make the order on this list closer to the PC board consensus.


The longer each vote takes the longer the overall project will take. That’ll lead to more people dropping out and the list being less accurate.

I’m just not a fan of inconsistency. Does that mean anytime a vote is close we’ll be extending the voting period?
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Re: Peaks project update: #3 

Post#60 » by Gibson22 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 8:09 pm

Mavericksfan wrote:This seems kinda suspect. Why was it left up longer than the original deadline? Especially after you made a point to mention the initial topic went on for too long


Suspect in what? Have you noticed that wilt was winning at the "original deadline" and I voted wilt at the first place? The point is to get as clear of a result as possible

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