We need to trade Blake

[Liqourish]

The Pistons haven't successfully rebuilt a team period. Which means no, not through the draft, and no, not through free agency/trades either.

Well, except that one time.

Name it.

Ben Wallace via trade
Rip Hamilton via trade
Chauncey Billups via MLE free agency
Rasheed Wallace via trade

I know 15 years was a long time ago, but when the Pistons broke up Grant Hill/Jerry Stackhouse... they rebuilt using what worked best

[Manocad]

Maybe I'm just old school. I watched the Bad Boys win two championships after building close to a dynasty type of team--great ownership/management that evaluated talent well and thus drafted and traded well, got closer and closer each year due to making the right moves to improve continuously until winning one championship and then another. Without a doubt that first championship was the most fulfilling championship I've experienced in my lifetime. The 2004 championship was much less fulfilling because that team was not only not expected to win, but was 3-4 years old, i.e. nobody on that team was there four years prior. So yeah, swapping out all the players to win a championship with a whole team of players that weren't on the team two years ago? That championship wouldn't mean a whole lot to me if it wasn't a team that was expected to stay together and continue to win. I don't have that "I don't care who the players are, I just want to see 'Detroit Pistons--NBA Champions' one time" thing going.

[Liqourish]

Maybe I'm just old school. I watched the Bad Boys win two championships after building close to a dynasty type of team--great ownership/management that evaluated talent well and thus drafted and traded well, got closer and closer each year due to making the right moves to improve continuously until winning one championship and then another. Without a doubt that first championship was the most fulfilling championship I've experienced in my lifetime. The 2004 championship was much less fulfilling because that team was not only not expected to win, but was 3-4 years old, i.e. nobody on that team was there four years prior. So yeah, swapping out all the players to win a championship with a whole team of players that weren't on the team two years ago? That championship wouldn't mean a whole lot to me if it wasn't a team that was expected to stay together and continue to win. I don't have that "I don't care who the players are, I just want to see 'Detroit Pistons--NBA Champions' one time" thing going.

Which is weird since people seem to think we’re going to a draft a championship team in 2 years.

[Manocad]

Well, except that one time.

Name it.

Ben Wallace via trade
Rip Hamilton via trade
Chauncey Billups via MLE free agency
Rasheed Wallace via trade

I know 15 years was a long time ago, but when the Pistons broke up Grant Hill/Jerry Stackhouse... they rebuilt using what worked best

Tayshaun Prince - drafted
Mehmet Okur - drafted
Lindsey Hunter - drafted
Zeljko Rebraca - drafted

And it was 14 years after winning a championship from a team built in large part through the draft with Isiah, Joe D., Rodman and Salley. In any case, a single championship is a pretty small sample size for making an argument for "this is what worked best." Unless you're also trying to make a case that in the other 28 non-championship seasons the team was always trying to build a champion through drafting only. Which of course, they weren't. In fact, I think you could make a pretty strong case that trying to build a champion through trades and free agency was more often the intent in the failed years than not.

[Liqourish]

Name it.

Ben Wallace via trade
Rip Hamilton via trade
Chauncey Billups via MLE free agency
Rasheed Wallace via trade

I know 15 years was a long time ago, but when the Pistons broke up Grant Hill/Jerry Stackhouse... they rebuilt using what worked best

Tayshaun Prince - drafted
Mehmet Okur - drafted
Lindsey Hunter - drafted
Zeljko Rebraca - drafted

And it was 14 years after winning a championship from a team built in large part through the draft with Isiah, Joe D., Rodman and Salley. In any case, a single championship is a pretty small sample size for making an argument for "this is what worked best." Unless you're also trying to make a case that in the other 28 non-championship seasons the team was always trying to build a champion through drafting only. Which of course, they weren't. In fact, I think you could make a pretty strong case that trying to build a champion through trades and free agency was more often the intent in the failed years than not.

It was stated that a championship is the only success and if you aren’t building towards a championship you should be. So would building championship teams not be the model to strive to? Since I can’t simply enjoy entertainment basketball without delusions of titles, should we not discuss how title teams have been built in our city?

[Manocad]

Maybe I'm just old school. I watched the Bad Boys win two championships after building close to a dynasty type of team--great ownership/management that evaluated talent well and thus drafted and traded well, got closer and closer each year due to making the right moves to improve continuously until winning one championship and then another. Without a doubt that first championship was the most fulfilling championship I've experienced in my lifetime. The 2004 championship was much less fulfilling because that team was not only not expected to win, but was 3-4 years old, i.e. nobody on that team was there four years prior. So yeah, swapping out all the players to win a championship with a whole team of players that weren't on the team two years ago? That championship wouldn't mean a whole lot to me if it wasn't a team that was expected to stay together and continue to win. I don't have that "I don't care who the players are, I just want to see 'Detroit Pistons--NBA Champions' one time" thing going.

Which is weird since people seem to think we’re going to a draft a championship team in 2 years.

Nah. We'd just like to see an attempt to build a team with a young core that looks like it has some sustainability. Build a core through drafting and developing young talent, put the finishing touches on through trades/free agency. That's what I've always said and it's a process that takes time. It's the "win now" folks who think that a team can swap out players and win a championship every year, and if it doesn't happen, well...just keep trying!

[Manocad]

Ben Wallace via trade
Rip Hamilton via trade
Chauncey Billups via MLE free agency
Rasheed Wallace via trade

I know 15 years was a long time ago, but when the Pistons broke up Grant Hill/Jerry Stackhouse... they rebuilt using what worked best

Tayshaun Prince - drafted
Mehmet Okur - drafted
Lindsey Hunter - drafted
Zeljko Rebraca - drafted

And it was 14 years after winning a championship from a team built in large part through the draft with Isiah, Joe D., Rodman and Salley. In any case, a single championship is a pretty small sample size for making an argument for "this is what worked best." Unless you're also trying to make a case that in the other 28 non-championship seasons the team was always trying to build a champion through drafting only. Which of course, they weren't. In fact, I think you could make a pretty strong case that trying to build a champion through trades and free agency was more often the intent in the failed years than not.

It was stated that a championship is the only success and if you aren’t building towards a championship you should be. So would building championship teams not be the model to strive to? Since I can’t simply enjoy entertainment basketball without delusions of titles, should we not discuss how title teams have been built in our city?

You can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about and so can I. Obviously we all have different ideas on what will get the Pistons a championship and what won't. If you want someone who will just shut up, not question your judgment and be happy, get a dog.

[Liqourish]

Tayshaun Prince - drafted
Mehmet Okur - drafted
Lindsey Hunter - drafted
Zeljko Rebraca - drafted

And it was 14 years after winning a championship from a team built in large part through the draft with Isiah, Joe D., Rodman and Salley. In any case, a single championship is a pretty small sample size for making an argument for "this is what worked best." Unless you're also trying to make a case that in the other 28 non-championship seasons the team was always trying to build a champion through drafting only. Which of course, they weren't. In fact, I think you could make a pretty strong case that trying to build a champion through trades and free agency was more often the intent in the failed years than not.

It was stated that a championship is the only success and if you aren’t building towards a championship you should be. So would building championship teams not be the model to strive to? Since I can’t simply enjoy entertainment basketball without delusions of titles, should we not discuss how title teams have been built in our city?

You can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about and so can I. Obviously we all have different ideas on what will get the Pistons a championship and what won't. If you want someone who will just shut up, not question your judgment and be happy, get a dog.

Why so emotional today

It’s called a discussion, it happens on message boards, except when good fans flee because of being insulted and belittled.

Let’s stick to the topic, I’ve already ignored numerous insults today, no need to go down that road.

[Manocad]

It was stated that a championship is the only success and if you aren’t building towards a championship you should be. So would building championship teams not be the model to strive to? Since I can’t simply enjoy entertainment basketball without delusions of titles, should we not discuss how title teams have been built in our city?

You can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about and so can I. Obviously we all have different ideas on what will get the Pistons a championship and what won't. If you want someone who will just shut up, not question your judgment and be happy, get a dog.

Why so emotional today

It’s called a discussion, it happens on message boards, except when good fans flee because of being insulted and belittled.

Let’s stick to the topic, I’ve already ignored numerous insults today, no need to go down that road.

That's what you call an insult?

I didn't deviate from the discussion; you did with your statement suggesting that you're being stifled in some way. I simply clarified that you're not being stifled; you can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about but your judgment is certainly going to be questioned; that's the point of the discussion. I'm not emotional at all and you shouldn't be either. If I was insulting you believe me, you'd know it.

[Liqourish]

You can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about and so can I. Obviously we all have different ideas on what will get the Pistons a championship and what won't. If you want someone who will just shut up, not question your judgment and be happy, get a dog.

Why so emotional today

It’s called a discussion, it happens on message boards, except when good fans flee because of being insulted and belittled.

Let’s stick to the topic, I’ve already ignored numerous insults today, no need to go down that road.

That's what you call an insult?

I didn't deviate from the discussion; you did with your statement suggesting that you're being stifled in some way. I simply clarified that you're not being stifled; you can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about but your judgment is certainly going to be questioned; that's the point of the discussion. I'm not emotional at all and you shouldn't be either. If I was insulting you believe me, you'd know it.

I never said you were the one handing out insults. I simply asked why you’re getting emotional. No need. Let’s have a civilized discussion. You can read through the threads again if you missed parts.

[Manocad]

Why so emotional today

It’s called a discussion, it happens on message boards, except when good fans flee because of being insulted and belittled.

Let’s stick to the topic, I’ve already ignored numerous insults today, no need to go down that road.

That's what you call an insult?

I didn't deviate from the discussion; you did with your statement suggesting that you're being stifled in some way. I simply clarified that you're not being stifled; you can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about but your judgment is certainly going to be questioned; that's the point of the discussion. I'm not emotional at all and you shouldn't be either. If I was insulting you believe me, you'd know it.

I never said you were the one handing out insults. I simply asked why you’re getting emotional. No need. Let’s have a civilized discussion. You can read through the threads again if you missed parts.

Dude, just stick to talking about basketball, mmkay?

[Liqourish]

That's what you call an insult?

I didn't deviate from the discussion; you did with your statement suggesting that you're being stifled in some way. I simply clarified that you're not being stifled; you can talk about whatever the hell you want to talk about but your judgment is certainly going to be questioned; that's the point of the discussion. I'm not emotional at all and you shouldn't be either. If I was insulting you believe me, you'd know it.

I never said you were the one handing out insults. I simply asked why you’re getting emotional. No need. Let’s have a civilized discussion. You can read through the threads again if you missed parts.

Dude, just stick to talking about basketball, mmkay?

after you

[Snakebites]

Maybe I'm just old school. I watched the Bad Boys win two championships after building close to a dynasty type of team--great ownership/management that evaluated talent well and thus drafted and traded well, got closer and closer each year due to making the right moves to improve continuously until winning one championship and then another. Without a doubt that first championship was the most fulfilling championship I've experienced in my lifetime. The 2004 championship was much less fulfilling because that team was not only not expected to win, but was 3-4 years old, i.e. nobody on that team was there four years prior. So yeah, swapping out all the players to win a championship with a whole team of players that weren't on the team two years ago? That championship wouldn't mean a whole lot to me if it wasn't a team that was expected to stay together and continue to win. I don't have that "I don't care who the players are, I just want to see 'Detroit Pistons--NBA Champions' one time" thing going.

Which is weird since people seem to think we’re going to a draft a championship team in 2 years.

Yep. That's what we're saying. Frankly, 2 years is a little long. Great characterization of the opposing argument.

[A_dub06]

It’s called a discussion, it happens on message boards, except when good fans flee because of being insulted and belittled.

No good fans have fled because of being “insulted and belittled”, people have gone absent because of the direction(or lack thereof) of this team and people are tired of the status quo. Regardless of whoever’s in the win-now or rebuild camp, both parties are tired and frustrated, nobodies happy, and I think that is entirely reflected in the poor ticket sales and attendance at LCA. The causal fans have fled, and the patience of the hardcore fans like ourselves has been more than tested for a long time.

[Pharaoh]

As a long time fan (over 20+ years) I bailed on the team but not the league simply because I grew tired of the direction and the constant misuse of assets.

Yeah I was a SVG guy. I was a SJ guy. But being wrong about them is a long post I don't feel inclined to type.

The "win-now" call from Gores made us make short sighted moves that set us back years and killed a lot of hope.

Is Westbrook a short sighted move? Yeah! But **** me we have to commit to something otherwise why bother?

Who are we going to get in 2 years? 3 years? 4 years? Is anyone walking through that door that is going to put butts in seats or elevate this team from 7th/8th to potentially top 4?

If nothing is going to change over the next few years then why should I continue to follow the team?

Luke, Sekou, Brown, Thomas and Svi are the most interesting pieces on this roster to me. If we can keep them and add a dude like Westbrook then I'm hoping we do otherwise I'll just come back when we decide WTF the organisation is tired of being a also ran

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Manocad]

I never said you were the one handing out insults. I simply asked why you’re getting emotional. No need. Let’s have a civilized discussion. You can read through the threads again if you missed parts.

Dude, just stick to talking about basketball, mmkay?

after you

Why so emotional?

[Liqourish]

Dude, just stick to talking about basketball, mmkay?

after you

Why so emotional?

[madmaxmedia]

Doubling down with a guy like Westbrook, or starting over....I think both are viable options for you guys, it just depends on what's the best trade you can get from either situation. In either case the most important thing is to try to find a good net value trade, because its gonna be a big swing for your franchise either way. If you make a good trade for Westbrook, you are significantly improving your team right now and can be a good playoff team the next couple of seasons. OTOH if you find a good trade for Blake, you get a big jump in a rebuilding program.

I think the Clippers have fortunately had some good opportunities to make these sorts of trades the last couple of years, to put them where they are right now. Of course we overpaid for PG in order to secure Kawhi, but just getting PG may have come down to getting an extra Miami 1st to absorb Harkless' contract. The Clips have been in the right situations at the right time and I think that has been just as important as choosing the right overall strategy or long-term plan. Those plans can change in an instant if the right opportunity comes along.

Either way, I'd love to see you guys make the most of what you do have right now, whether that means keeping Blake or moving him.

[BadMofoPimp]

Name it.

Ben Wallace via trade
Rip Hamilton via trade
Chauncey Billups via MLE free agency
Rasheed Wallace via trade

I know 15 years was a long time ago, but when the Pistons broke up Grant Hill/Jerry Stackhouse... they rebuilt using what worked best

Tayshaun Prince - drafted
Mehmet Okur - drafted
Lindsey Hunter - drafted
Zeljko Rebraca - drafted

And it was 14 years after winning a championship from a team built in large part through the draft with Isiah, Joe D., Rodman and Salley. In any case, a single championship is a pretty small sample size for making an argument for "this is what worked best." Unless you're also trying to make a case that in the other 28 non-championship seasons the team was always trying to build a champion through drafting only. Which of course, they weren't. In fact, I think you could make a pretty strong case that trying to build a champion through trades and free agency was more often the intent in the failed years than not.

Liquorish wins. Even in last years final 4, 3 of the 4 teams were built via trades and free agency. Best shot we have is making smart trades and signing solid free agents. Draft is a massive gamble and most times, teams fail. I rather like to know what I am getting and chances are you know what you are getting in Free Agency or via trade.

[Cowology]

While I was not a big fan of the trade that brought Blake to Detroit, I don't think moving him now really benefits us. Maybe closer to the trade deadline, after the offseason dust has settled and teams are vying for playoff positioning.