Should Knicks be concerned about RJ Barrett's Summer League play?

PlatinumState · Post #81 » by **PlatinumState** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:30 pm

I'd worry about it if we were 10 games into regular season and he's shooting 25% averaging 8 points

DCRYsing89 · Post #82 » by **DCRYsing89** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:36 pm

There’s much bigger things Knicks fans should worry about...

axeman23 · Post #83 » by **axeman23** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:37 pm

Knicks should immediately pivot, and trade Barrett for "Summer League Sensation" Anthony "Magic" Randolph: It is known!

bringinhinkie · Post #84 » by **bringinhinkie** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:39 pm

thebigbird wrote:It's summer league, but they should be concerned about it because he had similar struggles in college. He shot 30.8% from 3 and 66.5% from the free throw line in college. The guy can't shoot.

at 18 years old

no 18 year olds can shoot and most get 0 burn in ncaa

difference is, RJ actually got on the court.. and put up historic numbers

rj will be a star

bringinhinkie · Post #85 » by **bringinhinkie** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:41 pm

DCRYsing89 wrote:There’s much bigger things Knicks fans should worry about...

bingo

ZB9 · Post #86 » by **ZB9** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:45 pm

RJ's got that Carmelo tunnel vision, but his skill set is not nearly as good as Carmelo's.

Biff · Post #87 » by **Biff** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:47 pm

I always thought the dude would end up as a slightly better version of Josh Jackson and was worried we'd end up drafting him, thus putting us back at square 1, having to deal with another athletic wing that can't shoot and plays with tunnel vision.

Knicks7Tape · Post #88 » by **Knicks7Tape** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:54 pm

Knox looked like Jesus and MJ rolled into one last year. It is summer league. Not really worried about RJ.

Spens1 · Post #89 » by **Spens1** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 10:58 pm

knowing the summer league and how it indicates a players ability and what he's going to do in the season he's probably winning the ROY.

Post #90 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 11:02 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:
1) He scored a lot of points, but was not efficient, highly turnprone and wasn't the best offensive player for a lot of the season.

2) RJ Barrett was pretty damn clearly not the best SG in the NCAA. No one is going to give a guy like John Konochar an award over a Duke blue chipper.

He averaged 3 turnovers a game with a USG% of 32%. He had a Tov% of only 13%. Thats really not that high of a % for a freshman in the ACC. Guys like PG, Harden, Kawhi, Dame, Curry, Westbrook, Kemba, Kyrie, pretty much all perimeter players from this past All NBA teams not named Kevin Durant all had a tov% the same or worse than RJ as freshman.

Also a guy like John Konchar, played in the Summit conference, that is quite the difference than playing in the ACC. Again it is pretty damn impressive to put up 22/7/4 playing in the ACC as an 18 year old. When you set records like RJ did in the ACC, that usually means you're pretty damn good.

Again Im not a big RJ fan. I hated his playing style, I hated that K allowed the offense to run through him instead of through the best college player college has seen in a couple decades. I agree he isn't the most efficient player as well. Ive stated in the draft thread and in other team threads that most drafts Im not sure RJ would even go top 5. Im not a big fan of the guy to be honest. But again we are talking about a freshman that was 1st team all ACC, consensus 1st team all American. Please show me how an 18 year old that had an underwhelming season while also being a consensus 1st team all American.

We might be talking about the same thing from different angles. He was the consensus, no questions asked, #1 pick in the country 6 months ago. He was being talked about as the next great scoring wing.

For that level of hype, he appeared underwhelming. He has Zero right hand and appears to be a very average shooter. Of course that can improve, but his age, stats, and skillset are much more in the Culver/Jamal Murray/Donovan Mitchell caliber of prospect, not a semi-generational, future All-NBA caliber one.

Culver and Mitchell appear to be better defenders, while Murray can shoot. If RJ becomes a 55% TS, average AST:TOV ratio, average defending primary ball handler... he quickly becomes Demar Derozan. Good player, far from elite in any way.

I think you're conflating him being a NBA prospect and his individual college season.

If we are talking about just looking at his individual college season, there is no way you can say it was underwhelming. I don't care the hype, if you're a freshman in the ACC and you are a consensus 1st team all American, there is nothing underwhelming about his season.

If you are talking about him as a nba prospect, again I don't think RJ is a top 3-4 guy in most drafts. I think he's a good prospect but not an elite one. So you won't get an argument from me there. But all his flaws being talked about now were already well known before Duke. Just head over to the draft board and go back to before the season began and you will see us talking about his bad jumper, how well will he fit in because he is so ball dominant, he's very stiff and can't create space. All this stuff was already known.

basketballRob · Post #91 » by **basketballRob** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 11:08 pm

No he's what 18 or 19? Fans have crazy expectations of the really young draft picks. It happens over and over, it takes these guys time. DLo was the youngest in his draft class and we heard all the bust comments. Same with Aaron Gordon. More recently Frank Nyilikina was the youngest in his class and coming from a foreign country.

I know fans are going to have fun at the expense of Barrett and Knick fans but he's going to be great but probably not this year or next.

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Post #92 » by **Duke4life831** » Mon Jul 8, 2019 11:08 pm

FelixD wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:This is what I posted in the other RJ thread.

KAT: 12/7/2 with 3 turnovers and over 6 fouls a game on a 48 TS%

Harden: 17/4/1 with 4 turnovers on 36/07/85 shooting during his 2nd summer league.

PG13: 15/8/2 with 5 turnovers on 33/11/85 shooting

The list goes on and on of top end guys having horrible summer leagues. This means nothing.

You can add a lot more names to this list of guys that were terrible in SL and ended up being stars in this league. You also don't have to look that far back either, like many have stated here, Bagley and Young both looked horrible and both ended up having really good rookie seasons.

I'm not the biggest RJ fan, but we all have to remember this is summer league. Dumb to get too high or too low on SL performances. Remember Kevin Knox tearing it up last year, remember when Stanley Johnson looked like a beast? Ya bad or good performances really mean nothing.

PG13 and Harden has good FT%, that projects them to be good shooters.

Meanwhile RJ has 67% FT, its not the same. He has a broken jump shot.

Paul George shot 69% from the line as a freshman. Is 2% really that big of a deal?

HeartBreakKid · Post #93 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:46 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
He averaged 3 turnovers a game with a USG% of 32%. He had a Tov% of only 13%. Thats really not that high of a % for a freshman in the ACC. Guys like PG, Harden, Kawhi, Dame, Curry, Westbrook, Kemba, Kyrie, pretty much all perimeter players from this past All NBA teams not named Kevin Durant all had a tov% the same or worse than RJ as freshman.

Also a guy like John Konchar, played in the Summit conference, that is quite the difference than playing in the ACC. Again it is pretty damn impressive to put up 22/7/4 playing in the ACC as an 18 year old. When you set records like RJ did in the ACC, that usually means you're pretty damn good.

Again Im not a big RJ fan. I hated his playing style, I hated that K allowed the offense to run through him instead of through the best college player college has seen in a couple decades. I agree he isn't the most efficient player as well. Ive stated in the draft thread and in other team threads that most drafts Im not sure RJ would even go top 5. Im not a big fan of the guy to be honest. But again we are talking about a freshman that was 1st team all ACC, consensus 1st team all American. Please show me how an 18 year old that had an underwhelming season while also being a consensus 1st team all American.

We might be talking about the same thing from different angles. He was the consensus, no questions asked, #1 pick in the country 6 months ago. He was being talked about as the next great scoring wing.

For that level of hype, he appeared underwhelming. He has Zero right hand and appears to be a very average shooter. Of course that can improve, but his age, stats, and skillset are much more in the Culver/Jamal Murray/Donovan Mitchell caliber of prospect, not a semi-generational, future All-NBA caliber one.

Culver and Mitchell appear to be better defenders, while Murray can shoot. If RJ becomes a 55% TS, average AST:TOV ratio, average defending primary ball handler... he quickly becomes Demar Derozan. Good player, far from elite in any way.

I think you're conflating him being a NBA prospect and his individual college season.

If we are talking about just looking at his individual college season, there is no way you can say it was underwhelming. I don't care the hype, if you're a freshman in the ACC and you are a consensus 1st team all American, there is nothing underwhelming about his season.

If you are talking about him as a nba prospect, again I don't think RJ is a top 3-4 guy in most drafts. I think he's a good prospect but not an elite one. So you won't get an argument from me there. But all his flaws being talked about now were already well known before Duke. Just head over to the draft board and go back to before the season began and you will see us talking about his bad jumper, how well will he fit in because he is so ball dominant, he's very stiff and can't create space. All this stuff was already known.

People have a hard time separating good college player from good prospect.

sikma42 · Post #94 » by **sikma42** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:52 am

Most concerning plays I've seen surround selfishness. He projects to be the most selfish player in the NBA. I've almost never seen someone take such bad shots

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Buzzard · Post #95 » by **Buzzard** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:52 am

I was worried about his shooting before summer league and nothings changed. All his stats point to poor free throw shooting in both college and high school. That is only important if you expect him to be a pure shooter though. He hits the boards, can finish at times, and plays D.

I just don't think he is going to be the 25 point per game godsend a lot of people do.

TimRobbins · Post #96 » by **TimRobbins** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:56 am

Yes, they should be WORRIED, but it doesn't really matter.

Post #97 » by **FNQ** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:00 am

Absolutely, but they aren’t trying to win this year so it’s not a big deal. Give him the chance to get comfortable as a top option. If in 2 years he’s still struggling, then they’re in trouble

tundraknight · Post #98 » by **tundraknight** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:03 am

In before “it’s only summer league”.

Oops never mind. That’s was nearly everyone’s reply in this thread.

The Laker Kid · Post #99 » by **The Laker Kid** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:05 am

This is why KD and Kyrie didn't go to NYK

cycl0nus · Post #100 » by **cycl0nus** » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:06 am

heatwillbeback wrote:To me the shooting isn’t s huge deal. The turnovers are a much bigger concern. He wasn’t asked to carry the offense at Duke and looks to be having trouble doing so efficiently.

he's known to have small hands. he didnt carry the offense at duke because of below avg handles. theyre not kwame brown hands but its something to be concerned about.

he was struggling against scrubs. we'll see what he doess in the next few gms