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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1201 » by OrlandO » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:05 pm

magicman112 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:DJ is one of the main reasons, AG + JI combo worked for us. Put a non shooting PG instead and i highly doubt it works. Fultz is perfect in the Bench leading role in the beginning. In case he never gets his shot back, he will always be a bench PG in this leaque anyway.


well said.
Fultz is a better version of MCW when healthy.

Interesting, the Magic were in attendance for Monta Ellis's comeback workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254824/Multiple-NBA-Teams-In-Attendance-For-Amare-Stoudemire-Monta-Ellis-Workout


I was wondering if we were. I remember when he was being shopped by Golden State years ago the Magic were mentioned as a possible destination. He was kind of Westbrook-like more of a scoring PG.

John Hammond is the one who ended up trading for him lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1202 » by OrlandO » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:14 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:Interesting, the Magic were in attendance for Monta Ellis's comeback workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254824/Multiple-NBA-Teams-In-Attendance-For-Amare-Stoudemire-Monta-Ellis-Workout

The 14 teams were informed Monta Ellis still "have it all"
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1203 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:18 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Even when he returns, he'll be on heavy min restriction and probably won't play more than 20 mpg whole year.
Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1204 » by Knightro » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:20 pm

ezzzp wrote:Having a huge need at starting PG doesn't mean that it could have been fixed with the Mid Level Exception. The Magic already have an MLE type PG in Augustin + they have Fultz who I believe the FO want to give a legit shot to, as they should.

While I liked Tomas Satoransky and Tyus Jones as back up PG's, both signed with the MLE...neither solve the long term starting PG issue. That MLE range isn't were you find that type of player. Meanwhile, Fultz might fill that role if he can play, so the best strategy is to wait and see what he does before throwing money at the back up PG role when the Magic already have 4 options to fill that role: DJ, Fultz, MCW, and Briscoe.

If Fultz doesn't work, I expect the FO will make a consolidation trade to solve the back court issue when the opportunity arises.


Very much this.

DJ Augustin is not a high end starting point guard. I think even the biggest homer Magic fan would admit this. He's solidly in the 15-25 range among NBA starting point guards. Not great, but not awful either. The Magic absolutely do need to upgrade him at some point, no one is denying this.

The problem is that Tomas Satoransky, Tyus Jones and Delon Wright simply aren't those guys. They're solid backup PGs, but the Magic already have a possible backup PG making close to 10M and another backup/3rd string caliber PG on the minimum.

MAYBE those three guys are significantly better than the unknown Fultz, but maybe they're all on the same level. And while I agree they're all better than MCW, I'm not convinced any of them are dramatically better than what MCW would give you in 18 minutes a night as a backup.

I just don't see the point in adding another half measure at a position where you already have three half measures.

Aminu provides a clear upgrade over Iwundu/Martin as the primary backup 3/4 and combined with Okeke gives the Magic plenty of insurance against trading away Aaron Gordon for a backcourt playmaker (D'Angelo Russell on December 15th perhaps?).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1205 » by pepe1991 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:22 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Even when he returns, he'll be on heavy min restriction and probably won't play more than 20 mpg whole year.
Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

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Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1206 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:32 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Even when he returns, he'll be on heavy min restriction and probably won't play more than 20 mpg whole year.
Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

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Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.
NAW could've took MCW's spot on the roster and saved us another 2m or maybe even enabled us not to stretch Mozgov.

The only logical explanation for this pick is that AG is eventually getting traded.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1207 » by orlando_joe » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:38 pm

Message Boar wrote:Man, some writers seem to take 'glass completely empty' -approach to the Magic at all times, no matter what we do. I feel like that's been going on for years, at least since the Dwightmare (granted, things have not gone well). Sometimes I wonder if someone in the organization insulted a bunch of them somehow or something. Like they're holding some sort of grudge.

I remember some years ago the guys at CBS sports (and their eye on basketball podcast) would always hate on the Magic and there would be such joy in their voices when doing so.

Heck, just yesterday I was listening to a Raptors podcast (for Kawhi takes) and they started using the Magic as an example of a team that would never win a championship in their existence (along with the Grizzlies). Not in the next 10 years, or 20 years, but ever. And that the Raptors were above such teams on some fundamental level. I get that winning the 'ship can make you feel high and that they currently have a great GM and a healthy dose of luck. But I would argue that as a starting point Orlando is a much better location to build a winner than Toronto, along with a bunch of other NBA cities. Even if we're not in the blessed position of being a big/sexy market team, the good weather, no state tax and it not being in Canada and all all speak in our favor. Athletes, especially those who are more about family and settling down than hitting the night clubs, seem to enjoy being and living in the central Florida area. I mean we came close to signing Duncan, Hill and T-Mac in one summer while their finals MVP bolted after one year, immediately after winning the title, so what does that suggest?

(/end rant)

As for Aminu, he basically upgrades Jarell Martin's spot on the roster, improving our bench depth significantly and acting as insurance for any Gordon/Isaac injury (both have had their issues in the past). This Shapiro guy appears to be the clueless/shortsighted one. Even if I didn't love the move, writing "Orlando’s roster construction remains among the league’s worst" is just ridiculously hyperbolic.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1208 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:08 pm

magicman112 wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:
GelbeWand09 wrote:DJ is one of the main reasons, AG + JI combo worked for us. Put a non shooting PG instead and i highly doubt it works. Fultz is perfect in the Bench leading role in the beginning. In case he never gets his shot back, he will always be a bench PG in this leaque anyway.


well said.
Fultz is a better version of MCW when healthy.

Interesting, the Magic were in attendance for Monta Ellis's comeback workout.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254824/Multiple-NBA-Teams-In-Attendance-For-Amare-Stoudemire-Monta-Ellis-Workout


I was wondering if we were. I remember when he was being shopped by Golden State years ago the Magic were mentioned as a possible destination. He was kind of Westbrook-like more of a scoring PG.


Yep, GSW's wanted Dwight Howard for him and were willing to take him even though he and his agent had said they would not re-sign with Warriors, so it would be a 1 year rental.

The Warriors instead chose to trade Monta Ellis to Milwaukee for Andrew Bogut who was an expiring contract and had earlier that season suffered a severe leg injury and was out for the season.

The Warriors re-signed Bogut that summer even though they knew he would also miss most of that next season. Their patience was rewarded as Bogut became the defensive anchor that helped turn that organization around and was pivotal to the culture change that eventually led to championships.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1209 » by jayrehme » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:21 pm

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.
NAW could've took MCW's spot on the roster and saved us another 2m or maybe even enabled us not to stretch Mozgov.

The only logical explanation for this pick is that AG is eventually getting traded.

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NAW is looking very good.. I was worried his quickness/size wouldn't be enough for this level.. but his vision/coordination/iq/confidence/shooting seem to more than make up for it .... albeit, DJ Augustin would be destroying Summer League players as well, so wait until you see him against real NBA defenses. I anticipate a solid career for him.... Fultz better be ready for passing on NAW who was arguably BPA AND best fit.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1210 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:23 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Even when he returns, he'll be on heavy min restriction and probably won't play more than 20 mpg whole year.
Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.

Not gonna lie... i was surprised when his name wasn't called that night. But hey... it didn't happen. Somehow they felt like Okeke is a better option/talent. And as many have said... Chuma could have been a top 10 pick if it wasn't for the injury and that's where he was trending. so for the WeHam... he was POSSIBLY the better talent that fell due to fate and somehow NAW still fell to 17th. We don't know what their vision is....so let's not jump to conclusions off of 1 game. But did like what i saw in the highlights!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1211 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:37 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
Message Boar wrote:Man, some writers seem to take 'glass completely empty' -approach to the Magic at all times, no matter what we do. I feel like that's been going on for years, at least since the Dwightmare (granted, things have not gone well). Sometimes I wonder if someone in the organization insulted a bunch of them somehow or something. Like they're holding some sort of grudge.

I remember some years ago the guys at CBS sports (and their eye on basketball podcast) would always hate on the Magic and there would be such joy in their voices when doing so.

Heck, just yesterday I was listening to a Raptors podcast (for Kawhi takes) and they started using the Magic as an example of a team that would never win a championship in their existence (along with the Grizzlies). Not in the next 10 years, or 20 years, but ever. And that the Raptors were above such teams on some fundamental level. I get that winning the 'ship can make you feel high and that they currently have a great GM and a healthy dose of luck. But I would argue that as a starting point Orlando is a much better location to build a winner than Toronto, along with a bunch of other NBA cities. Even if we're not in the blessed position of being a big/sexy market team, the good weather, no state tax and it not being in Canada and all all speak in our favor. Athletes, especially those who are more about family and settling down than hitting the night clubs, seem to enjoy being and living in the central Florida area. I mean we came close to signing Duncan, Hill and T-Mac in one summer while their finals MVP bolted after one year, immediately after winning the title, so what does that suggest?

(/end rant)

As for Aminu, he basically upgrades Jarell Martin's spot on the roster, improving our bench depth significantly and acting as insurance for any Gordon/Isaac injury (both have had their issues in the past). This Shapiro guy appears to be the clueless/shortsighted one. Even if I didn't love the move, writing "Orlando’s roster construction remains among the league’s worst" is just ridiculously hyperbolic.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1212 » by VFX » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:44 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Even when he returns, he'll be on heavy min restriction and probably won't play more than 20 mpg whole year.
Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.


I’m willing to give Okeke a fair shake at contributing before judging the draft. However, if NAW becomes a relatively decent starting level playmaker, it’ll be a bad look and further highlight this FO’s bias.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1213 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 9, 2019 3:55 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Yeah and it's no guarantee he'll ever be as good as he was. It seems like a huge risk the FO took when they could've just took the safe pick NAW.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.


I’m willing to give Okeke a fair shake at contributing before judging the draft. However, if NAW becomes a relatively decent starting level playmaker, it’ll be a bad look and further highlight this FO’s bias.
It's very unconventional for them to always pick a guy they haven't worked out. Last year WCJ was my guy and seemed like he really wanted to be here after his work out but they went with Bamba who the didn't work out.

It seems like what a work out can determine is how hard a guy is willing to work. WCJ alluded to that after the workout last year. He said they tried to see how far they could push him.

Not sure why they even workout players based on the last 3 years. They could have a potential allstar working out and they wouldn't even know anyway.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1214 » by zaymon » Tue Jul 9, 2019 4:13 pm

jayrehme wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Indeed.
Also he is 38,3% college 3 point shooter on over 300 attemps, versitale ( rebounds ,assists steals) , he was always right player to patch next to DJ now and Fultz (hopefully) in future.

Instad, Magic drafted college power forward with question mark can he play as wing in nba, because he ain't gonna play PF at 6'7 in NBA.
NAW could've took MCW's spot on the roster and saved us another 2m or maybe even enabled us not to stretch Mozgov.

The only logical explanation for this pick is that AG is eventually getting traded.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app


NAW is looking very good.. I was worried his quickness/size wouldn't be enough for this level.. but his vision/coordination/iq/confidence/shooting seem to more than make up for it .... albeit, DJ Augustin would be destroying Summer League players as well, so wait until you see him against real NBA defenses. I anticipate a solid career for him.... Fultz better be ready for passing on NAW who was arguably BPA AND best fit.

Dj scored 30 points in his 3rd summer league game. Since then he made some progress. Lets enjoy it for a minute
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1215 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:34 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1216 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:37 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1217 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jul 9, 2019 5:39 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter

Such a wasted pick...
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1218 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 6:08 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter

Such a wasted pick...

What does this have to do with a wasted pick? the guy hasn't played in forever... I can swing this to make another narrative "The magic hire ups have realized they struck gold and had seen enough after 1 game... therefore they are holding Bamba out of the rest of the Summer league so he doesn't break the hearts of the rookies he face.... therefore.... he's sore and we are holding him out" If we really wanna make something out of nothing. lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1219 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jul 9, 2019 6:16 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter

Such a wasted pick...

What does this have to do with a wasted pick? the guy hasn't played in forever... I can swing this to make another narrative "The magic hire ups have realized they struck gold and had seen enough after 1 game... therefore they are holding Bamba out of the rest of the Summer league so he doesn't break the hearts of the rookies he face.... therefore.... he's sore and we are holding him out" If we really wanna make something out of nothing. lol


Struck gold so they gave another C 4 year 100M so said player can play 10-15 minutes off bench !!!

Dude looked GASSED in what 15 minutes of Summer League. If anything you’d think let’s continue to play him 15 minutes so he can try and get through the conditioning a little early. He’s sore off 15 minutes rofl that’s some weak ****. All that swole Bamba talk and buddy did nothing to help his legs
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1220 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 9, 2019 6:17 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter

Such a wasted pick...


What? Holding a player (in recovery back from a stress fracture) out of meaningless scrimmage games equals a wasted pick? :lol:

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