2019 Heat Offseason thread 4.0- Yimmy and the Kids!

[Heat3]

Russell Westbrook
Age: 32 Salary = $41,358,814
Age: 33 Salary = $44,211,146
Age: 34 Salary = $47,063,478

Russell Westbrook is a bad contract.

You're confusing bad and expensive. It's definitely expensive. It may not be bad.

JJ's contract is bad.

When a player receives a salary like this at his age, it is considered a bad contract. We are not getting a young Russell, his game does not age well. James Johnson is a bad contract, but we can play without him. The Miami Heat can not play without almost half the salary cap. I'm not against Russell in Miami, but if we have to send a young player or a first-round pick, then I'm against it.

People said Wade's game would not age well because he couldn't shoot and relied on athleticism. Wade was probably more efficient, but I don't see why Westbrook can't adjust. Also his athleticism is still off the charts.

[The Bunk]

You're confusing bad and expensive. It's definitely expensive. It may not be bad.

JJ's contract is bad.

When a player receives a salary like this at his age, it is considered a bad contract. We are not getting a young Russell, his game does not age well. James Johnson is a bad contract, but we can play without him. The Miami Heat can not play without almost half the salary cap. I'm not against Russell in Miami, but if we have to send a young player or a first-round pick, then I'm against it.

People said Wade's game would not age well because he couldn't shoot and relied on athleticism. Wade was probably more efficient, but I don't see why Westbrook can't adjust. Also his athleticism is still off the charts.

While Wade was way more efficient, Russ is more athletic at 30-31 than Wade was. Both differences there are significant, IMO.

[greg4012]

Jimmy and Westbrook expire the same offseason?

I mean, think about it.... About 34 years old for both guys. That's going to be almost $90 million off the books. We'll be able to go after 2-3 max players that summer.

That's one of my favorite aspects of this approach (under the condition that we're able to keep all or almost all of the youth).

We define a clear 4-year window to compete with Butler & Westbrook. I understand it's likely that year 4 of that window may be frustrating with both guys already towards the end of their careers and on massive salaries. But, it could also be mitigated by growing youth taking more of a role at cheaper prices.

Butler & Westbrook 4-year window gives our youth exposure to real competitive playoff basketball and vets that take a professional hard working approach to winning. We may not be the favorites, but we'd compete with anyone.

4 years are up and we presumably enter 2023 free agency with a **** load of cap space and the following hopefully in tow:

27-year old Justise Winslow
25-year old Bam Adebayo
23-year old Tyler Herro
24-year old KZ Okpala

[MartyCONLONNN]

the profuse amount of smoke coming from this story yesterday and all the sudden radio silence and westbrook unlikes post that stoked the flames. entertaining times to say the least lol

[RexBoyWonder]

To Miami: Russell Westbrook, Patrick Patterson, John Henson

To Oklahoma City: Goran Dragic, JR Smith, Justise Winslow, James Johnson, unprotect 2023 1st

To Cleveland: Dion Waiters, Andre Roberson, Derrick Jones Jr, Miami 2025 1st round pick (lottery protection)



trade machine approved

You've easily been suggesting the most reasonable/realistic trade proposals on this board.

Massive overpay.

Gom you've easily been suggesting the most reasonable/realistic trade proposals on this board

[JLop]

You're confusing bad and expensive. It's definitely expensive. It may not be bad.

JJ's contract is bad.

When a player receives a salary like this at his age, it is considered a bad contract. We are not getting a young Russell, his game does not age well. James Johnson is a bad contract, but we can play without him. The Miami Heat can not play without almost half the salary cap. I'm not against Russell in Miami, but if we have to send a young player or a first-round pick, then I'm against it.

People said Wade's game would not age well because he couldn't shoot and relied on athleticism. Wade was probably more efficient, but I don't see why Westbrook can't adjust. Also his athleticism is still off the charts.

It sounds like a woman marrying a man in the hope that he will change, but instead you're betting almost 50 million each year. We can take that risk as long as we do not send any young players or future assets. In regard about Wade, Dwyane had a complete game and an IQ of basketball out of this world.

[The Bunk]

Telling that with all this silence.... nothing significant has come out about another interested team. Odd that OKC isn't at least putting something out there to try and tip Miami's hand. Not to mention Miami signing Herro of course.

I'm rolling with the theory that Miami/OKC already have an agreement, and this is all pending a third team.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

Oklahoma City has asked the Heat for multiple young, valuable assets in trade conversations involving guard Russell Westbrook, and Miami - at least to this point - has refused, according to a league source briefed on the discussions by one of the teams.

OKC has asked the Heat to include impressive rookie guard Tyler Herro in the proposed trade, but the Heat has been very reluctant to do that. Because Herro signed with the Heat on Wednesday, he cannot be included in any trade for 30 days, but that isn’t viewed as an obstacle.


At another point in the discussions this week, the Thunder asked the Heat to include two among Herro, Bam Adebayo and Justise Winslow, according to a source in touch with one of the two teams. The Heat also is opposed to including Adebayo, whom Erik Spoelstra ranked among the best centers in the league in the final months of last season.


Though the Heat very much would like to add Westbrook, those OKC demands had resulted in a stalement in conversations as of Wednesday evening.

Whether the Heat would be willing to include Winslow remains to be seen. Though the Heat is pleased with Winslow and views him as a core piece, his value might be diminished somewhat with Westbrook here because Winslow does some of his best work while playing on the ball - an opportunity which would come less frequently with Westbrook on the Heat.


One reason OKC wants valuable young assets from the Heat stems from the fact that Miami couldn’t give the Thunder any draft picks because OKC - through the Clippers - owns Miami’s first-round picks in 2021 (unprotected) and 2023 (protected).


ESPN front-office expert Bobby Marks, during a conversation at a summer league game this week, noted that Miami isn’t even permitted to trade another first-round pick because protections on the 2023 pick extend into 2026, and teams cannot trade first-round picks that extend beyond seven years.


The Heat and OKC would be permitted to amend protections on the 2021 and 2023 picks, or change the years that those two picks will be sent to the Thunder if both sides choose, because the Thunder own both of those Miami picks.


The Heat is willing to give OKC contracts that add up to slightly more that Westbrook’s $38.5 million salary next season. That’s a necessity because Miami is operating under a $138.9 million hard cap next season and is less than $1 million below that figure, with 14 under contract.


The league requires teams begin the season with at least 13 players and then move to a minimum of 14 after a couple of weeks.

With OKC seeking short-term contracts, in addition to draft picks or promising cheap young players, any permutation of the trade likely would need to include Goran Dragic, due $19.2 million next season in the final year of his deal.

Meyers Leonard, at $11.2 million, is Miami’s only other expiring contract that carries significant money. Any trade involving Leonard cannot be announced until mid-September because of arcane league rules involving players moved in sign-and-trades, as Leonard was in the Jimmy Butler deal.


Derrick Jones Jr., at $1.6 million, is the other Heat veteran on an expiring deal.


Others potentially in play include Kelly Olynyk (due $26.1 million over the final two seasons of his contract) and James Johnson (due $31 million over his final two seasons).

It’s unclear if OKC would have any interest in taking back former Thunder guard Dion Waiters, who’s due $27.1 million over the next two seasons. Though the Heat has made Waiters available in trades in the past year, Waiters would have value in a backcourt with Westbrook because of Waiters’ improved three-point shooting.


Because Westbrook is due $172 million over the next four seasons, the Heat would prefer to send the Thunder only players whose contracts would help expedite a deal - in most cases, players who aren’t considered to have a longterm future here.


But OKC believes more compensation is warranted for a highly durable player who has averaged a triple-double three consecutive years and was the league’s MVP in 2016-17.

As of mid-week, the Heat was unsure if there were any other teams seriously pursuing Westbrook, and Miami might dig in further on not giving up valuable assets if it has no competition for the eight-time All Star guard. If there is another team pursuing Westbrook, it hasn’t leaked publicly.


After watching the Thunder trade Paul George, Westbrook reportedly would like to be traded and has named the Heat as a team that appeals to him. That - combined with the Heat’s strong interest - led some in the league to conclude that a Westbrook trade to Miami is inevitable.


But the stalemate on players must be resolved. The Heat could wait out the Thunder, daring OKC to begin the season with Westbrook, which seems unlikely, or find a more appealing offer elsewhere, which certainly cannot be ruled out.


Or the Heat eventually could succumb to an extent on OKC’s demands.


But Miami, at this point, has been reluctant to give up young assets for a 30-year-old due to earn $41.4 million in 2020-21, $44.2 million in 2021-22 and $47.1 million in 2022-23.


One key for OKC might be finding a second team that makes an offer strong enough to either accept or use to potentially entice the Heat to offer more. It’s unclear if the Pistons, initially linked to Westbrook in media speculation, have legitimate interest. If the Pistons were interested, Detroit could hypothetically could offer something Miami cannot (a first-round draft pick in the next year or two) plus the expiring contracts of Reggie Jackson and Langston Galloway and another piece.

Besides the Heat and OKC’s inability to agree on compensation, OKC also would like to take in less money than it’s sending out in the trade because the Thunder is $2.25 million above the luxury tax threshold and would prefer to get back under the threshold to avoid the onerous repeater tax.

That’s something the Heat cannot accommodate because it is not permitted at any point in the next year to surpass the $138.9 million hard cap.


That’s why a third team would be helpful in the deal, but that would end up being moot if OKC and Miami cannot reach an agreement on players to be included.

The Heat likely would have been leery about including Herro in a trade even before summer league, but Miami’s belief in the rookie guard has only strengthened because of his strong work in summer league.

In six summer league games, Herro is averaging 19.5 points, 4.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists while shooting 39.5 percent overall and 33.3 percent on three-pointers. He’s 24 for 25 on free throws and his play has exceeded the Heat’s expectations, according to a league source.

[DefenseWins]

Assuming we give up no young guys, the real question becomes - Who the hell starts?

Herro's shooting will be much needed, Justise really needs minutes at PG to keeping growing. Waiters has an ego, Can Westbrook work off the ball?

Dion should be the one off the ball

Justise I don't think will start if we get Russ

Russ-Dion-Butler-PF-C (Bam, Leonard, Olynk?)

Bench : Winslow, Herro, Nunn, mix of Leonard/Olynk. JJ I feel is gone so I haven't included him in anything lol

It's hard to say since we don't know who is truly staying or going. Nunn looks to me as a Dion replacement for cheap. He had some fun times with us but showing up out of shape is a big no no in Heat culture.

[Kobewade11]

If we're competing against ourselves there's no reason to give up any assets. I went to the Orlando board and even they dont want him.

[DefenseWins]

Knew it, OKC wanted Herro. Ew, they wanted two of either Herro, Bam, Winslow? nah lets just walk....

Our FO sure does believe in the kids, or else Pat would have done this already. Maybe if Russ was a champ, it would have been done already.

[MartyCONLONNN]

Barry’s article suggests there’s a significant gap in negotiations. Props to Miami for digging in. But that silence is the way OKC works. Melo, both PG trades, even the Harden trade came out of nowhere. This snag is definitely causing OKC to canvas the league again

[RexBoyWonder]

If that's what needed in order for us to keep Winnie, I'll take care of Ramona Shelburne. i'll take one for the team.

[batterybro42]

Deal is dead RIP to the dream

Back the 5th through 8th seed we go

Really think we should have offered them Winslow for him

[slick_watts]

thunder fan here. this deal will get done. they are just negotiating. you guys don't know sam presti- russell westbrook is gone and if miami is the only team that wants him you'll get him. this isn't getting dragged out for months like AD or something.

[Kobewade11]

Barry’s article suggests there’s a significant gap in negotiations. Props to Miami for digging in. But that silence is the way OKC works. Melo, both PG trades, even the Harden trade came out of nowhere. This snag is definitely causing OKC to canvas the league again

I don't know where they look. Detroit just wants to dump Snell/reggie jackson. Minnesota only wants to dump Wiggins 4 year deal. Nobody is offering an asset, let alone "several" like they were asking for.

[batterybro42]

thunder fan here. this deal will get done. they are just negotiating. you guys don't know sam presti- russell westbrook is gone and if miami is the only team that wants him you'll get him. this isn't getting dragged out for months like AD or something.

I don't thin Presti will move him for essentially nothing which is what our FO is offering

[JLop]

thunder fan here. this deal will get done. they are just negotiating. you guys don't know sam presti- russell westbrook is gone and if miami is the only team that wants him you'll get him. this isn't getting dragged out for months like AD or something.

I don't thin Presti will move him for essentially nothing which is what our FO is offering

Like I said before: "I hope Pat Riley will wait longer to see what Oklahoma can do next season by paying $41,358,814 to Russell Westbrook at 32 years of age. By then, Oklahoma will have to eat Westbrook and his contract with a piece of bread."

[AirP.]

Assuming we give up no young guys, the real question becomes - Who the hell starts?

Herro's shooting will be much needed, Justise really needs minutes at PG to keeping growing. Waiters has an ego, Can Westbrook work off the ball?

Dion should be the one off the ball

Justise I don't think will start if we get Russ

Russ-Dion-Butler-PF-C (Bam, Leonard, Olynk?)

Bench : Winslow, Herro, Nunn, mix of Leonard/Olynk. JJ I feel is gone so I haven't included him in anything lol

It's hard to say since we don't know who is truly staying or going. Nunn looks to me as a Dion replacement for cheap. He had some fun times with us but showing up out of shape is a big no no in Heat culture.

I'd move Dion to the scoring 6th man role and start Butler and Winslow at the wings.

[DrHeat]

Guys I don't this trade is happening... Just heard Stan Van Gundy on 790.. Presti in not giving up RW for expiring contracts and Miami is not giving up any of the young players... OKC will hold to Westbrook until the trading deadline in see if someone else is interested at that point.

I think we gotten more than we expected by getting Butler and I am excited about our team as it is.. Maybe one of the young guys can make the leap to borderline star.. If we want a rebuilt that is sustainable we need to hold for a better opportunity to come along