How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders?

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#121 » by Daddy 801 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:12 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:The rebuild (if not successful in next two years) would really depend on what Gobert wants to do, what level he is playing at in two years, and what type of contract he wants. He is probably in his prime the next 2-4 years. Big men peak earlier and he relies on his athleticism. The time is now or never IMO with Gobert. And he might be gone in a year from now....which sucks to think. But I believe his contract is up at the end of this year.

If they blow it up in 1-2 years they can have a ton of capspace before signing Donovan to his max.


The problem is that as long as they have DM and Gobert they will never blow it up. They will ride these two players for as long as they can into another 5 years of playoff purgatory with no shot at contention. And worse, with DM's max and Gobert's supermax they won't have the cap space to make the team better.


If they can’t at least make it to the WCFs and have a competitive series they should not sign Rudy to a Supermax. They should trade him and get assets to build around Donovan. That’s why I think it’s this year or sorta bust. Maybe sign Rudy to a contract and then trade him.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#122 » by Inigo Montoya » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Daddy 801 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:The rebuild (if not successful in next two years) would really depend on what Gobert wants to do, what level he is playing at in two years, and what type of contract he wants. He is probably in his prime the next 2-4 years. Big men peak earlier and he relies on his athleticism. The time is now or never IMO with Gobert. And he might be gone in a year from now....which sucks to think. But I believe his contract is up at the end of this year.

If they blow it up in 1-2 years they can have a ton of capspace before signing Donovan to his max.


The problem is that as long as they have DM and Gobert they will never blow it up. They will ride these two players for as long as they can into another 5 years of playoff purgatory with no shot at contention. And worse, with DM's max and Gobert's supermax they won't have the cap space to make the team better.


If they can’t at least make it to the WCFs and have a competitive series they should not sign Rudy to a Supermax. They should trade him and get assets to build around Donovan. That’s why I think it’s this year or sorta bust. Maybe sign Rudy to a contract and then trade him.

Perhaps they should but they never will. We all know the Jazz and how they do things by now. No way they'll turn their backs on a (pretty much) guaranteed playoff team that can even advance a round for a rebuild.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#123 » by zero24gravity » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
The problem is that as long as they have DM and Gobert they will never blow it up. They will ride these two players for as long as they can into another 5 years of playoff purgatory with no shot at contention. And worse, with DM's max and Gobert's supermax they won't have the cap space to make the team better.


If they can’t at least make it to the WCFs and have a competitive series they should not sign Rudy to a Supermax. They should trade him and get assets to build around Donovan. That’s why I think it’s this year or sorta bust. Maybe sign Rudy to a contract and then trade him.

Perhaps they should but they never will. We all know the Jazz and how they do things by now. No way they'll turn their backs on a (pretty much) guaranteed playoff team that can even advance a round for a rebuild.



I'm assuming you have some other kind of fool proof plan to get the Jazz an easy title, since you seem to hate everything about what they do, yes? A better plan than resigning a top20 NBA player. A better plan than building around the 2nd best duo in franchise history. A better plan than tanking a bunch of years in hopes of getting players as good as DM & RG to build around.

Fun season should be upon us. Enjoy it, good sir!!!
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#124 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am

zero24gravity wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
If they can’t at least make it to the WCFs and have a competitive series they should not sign Rudy to a Supermax. They should trade him and get assets to build around Donovan. That’s why I think it’s this year or sorta bust. Maybe sign Rudy to a contract and then trade him.

Perhaps they should but they never will. We all know the Jazz and how they do things by now. No way they'll turn their backs on a (pretty much) guaranteed playoff team that can even advance a round for a rebuild.



I'm assuming you have some other kind of fool proof plan to get the Jazz an easy title, since you seem to hate everything about what they do, yes? A better plan than resigning a top20 NBA player. A better plan than building around the 2nd best duo in franchise history. A better plan than tanking a bunch of years in hopes of getting players as good as DM & RG to build around.

Fun season should be upon us. Enjoy it, good sir!!!

Meh. Forgive me a thousand pardons for not drinking the Cool-Aid. And I resent you saying that I hate everything about what the Jazz do. It's not true. I guess I should fawn over every move the Jazz makes, that'll get us that ring fo sho.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#125 » by Daddy 801 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:11 am

zero24gravity wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
Daddy 801 wrote:
If they can’t at least make it to the WCFs and have a competitive series they should not sign Rudy to a Supermax. They should trade him and get assets to build around Donovan. That’s why I think it’s this year or sorta bust. Maybe sign Rudy to a contract and then trade him.

Perhaps they should but they never will. We all know the Jazz and how they do things by now. No way they'll turn their backs on a (pretty much) guaranteed playoff team that can even advance a round for a rebuild.



I'm assuming you have some other kind of fool proof plan to get the Jazz an easy title, since you seem to hate everything about what they do, yes? A better plan than resigning a top20 NBA player. A better plan than building around the 2nd best duo in franchise history. A better plan than tanking a bunch of years in hopes of getting players as good as DM & RG to build around.

Fun season should be upon us. Enjoy it, good sir!!!



I think you were speaking to Inigo? But anyways I’m very, very excited for this season. Most excited I’ve ever been. Conley and Bojan were at the top of my list of realistic targets in the offseason. Especially Bojan. We needed shooting, we got shooting. I thought we slightly overpaid for Conley, but given the way the rest of the roster was rounded out I'm fine with the trade now. And looking at his numbers more in depth after the trade made me realize why Conley was a target. The front office made a good move. I’m worried about his age, but it is what it does.

But I do disagree with your sentiment that it’s foolish to tank/rebuild. At least that’s what I think you are getting at? With the way the CBA is constructed, and the fact the we aren’t the Lakers, tanking is the best way to get a championship. It’s just facing the reality of the league. If Rudy wants a supermax and demands the full amount. The Jazz are screwed. The Jazz are only going to win a championship with Rudy by surrounding him with damn good shooters at all positions. There won’t be capspace left if he wants 40-50 million to get any of those guys. If he wants to get paid that much I’d trade him in a heartbeat. For now, the front office did the right thing by surrounding him with the players they did. Hopefully we can renegotiate a contract this upcoming year to extend him the next 3-4 years saving the Jazz some money and he can get the security of getting paid faster. Well see.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#126 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:49 am

Did HOU just KO themselves by trading for Westbrook? That makes it sooooo much easier for us to beat them.

Meanwhile, we wait for Presti to get his next superstar now that he has every pick for the next 8 years lol.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#127 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:08 am

HOU may have taken over as favorites to be the #1 seed in my opinion. Having 48 minutes of Harden or WB on the floor is going to get you a lot of regular season wins. But they are a much easier matchup for us in the playoffs now. I'd gladly take them on in a series.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#128 » by sipclip » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 am

KqWIN wrote:Did HOU just KO themselves by trading for Westbrook? That makes it sooooo much easier for us to beat them.

Meanwhile, we wait for Presti to get his next superstar now that he has every pick for the next 8 years lol.
No they did not. Westbrook is a huge upgrade over CP at this point. I now have the rockets ahead of us in the standings which puts us 5th or 6th in the west.

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#129 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:12 am

sipclip wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Did HOU just KO themselves by trading for Westbrook? That makes it sooooo much easier for us to beat them.

Meanwhile, we wait for Presti to get his next superstar now that he has every pick for the next 8 years lol.
No they did not. Westbrook is a huge upgrade over CP at this point. I now have the rockets ahead of us in the standings which puts us 5th or 6th in the west.

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I think they got better in the regular season, especially because WB is more likely to play more games...but is someone we can handle in the playoffs. Think WB makes it easier for us to defend and score on them.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#130 » by sipclip » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:35 am

KqWIN wrote:
sipclip wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Did HOU just KO themselves by trading for Westbrook? That makes it sooooo much easier for us to beat them.

Meanwhile, we wait for Presti to get his next superstar now that he has every pick for the next 8 years lol.
No they did not. Westbrook is a huge upgrade over CP at this point. I now have the rockets ahead of us in the standings which puts us 5th or 6th in the west.

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I think they got better in the regular season, especially because WB is more likely to play more games...but is someone we can handle in the playoffs. Think WB makes it easier for us to defend and score on them.
It will be interesting to see what happens. It is crazy how loaded the thunder are with picks and pick swaps and the beauty of it is that most of them are 3 plus years down the line. They will now tank over the next few years to load up with young talent and then they have all these other picks to bolster the roster or for a trade when the clippers and rockets are likely to fall off. Also look for them to move Gallo for another 1st or young player and the same possibly with Adams.

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#131 » by sipclip » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:45 am

Watch Presti somehow flip Paul to the heat for Dragic and Justice Winslow now.

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#132 » by Rauxcee » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:49 am

KqWIN wrote:HOU may have taken over as favorites to be the #1 seed in my opinion. Having 48 minutes of Harden or WB on the floor is going to get you a lot of regular season wins. But they are a much easier matchup for us in the playoffs now. I'd gladly take them on in a series.


I'm much, much less concerned about Houston in a 7 game series now. I still had them favored against us, but now I don't. Westbrook needs the ball in his hands and so does Harden. Unlike CP3, Westbrook isn't going to kill us from mid-range, floaters, or from 3, and he isn't as smart- he takes very ill-timed shots and isn't a great decision maker.

I feel really good about this for us.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#133 » by Daddy 801 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:25 am

I couldn’t agree more that Houston is less dangerous now. We can sag off Westbroke and pack the paint even more making driving lanes harder for Harden. Thanks OKC.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#134 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:36 am

When you looked at HOU's roster the past couple of season, they didn't have the most overwhelming talent. They obviously had a ton of talent but when you stacked up the rosters on paper it didn't look like they were the second best team or one that could stand up to GSW. They had something special going with the way they played that allowed them to maximize everything they had.

WB is a system on his own, and I don't expect him to relent. It's why he's good, and also the reason why the Thunder have failed to change the way they play. Russ is going to be Russ no matter what. There's a good chance he takes down the Rockets special sauce with him.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#135 » by KqWIN » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:43 am

I alluded WB's ability to carry a team on his own when Harden was sitting out...but I might back off of that a bit.

From pbpstats.com (amazing site btw). The Thunder got smoked when it was just WB and PG was on the bench.

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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#136 » by vryadli » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:33 am

Rauxcee wrote:
KqWIN wrote:HOU may have taken over as favorites to be the #1 seed in my opinion. Having 48 minutes of Harden or WB on the floor is going to get you a lot of regular season wins. But they are a much easier matchup for us in the playoffs now. I'd gladly take them on in a series.


I'm much, much less concerned about Houston in a 7 game series now. I still had them favored against us, but now I don't. Westbrook needs the ball in his hands and so does Harden. Unlike CP3, Westbrook isn't going to kill us from mid-range, floaters, or from 3, and he isn't as smart- he takes very ill-timed shots and isn't a great decision maker.

I feel really good about this for us.


I surprised when these WB issues avoided in the context of Huston/OKC build. The had 2 crazy ball-dominant individual superstar talent paired with high IQ superstar partners. Noe HR is going to have first 2 in a package. Even if WB is better in vacuum than CP, I just can't believe that for real Rockets it is ANY W-improvement against good opponent.

I can be wrong of course, but so far WB never disappointed me.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#137 » by stitches » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:54 am

My reaction to the trade:

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Westbrook is still a force of nature, but he's SO MUCH EASIER to guard by the Jazz. Take the ball out of Harden's hands? YES, PLEASE!!! Give it to Westbrook! Sure, why not...

I'd take my chances that Westbrook gets hot from mid-range any day over one of the best mid-range shooters in the history of the game getting hot any day.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#138 » by tleikheen » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:51 am

Westbrook is better than Conley and Mitchell and now he's teaming up with James Harden. Anybody who thinks Harden /Westbrook aren't going to ne serious contenders doesn't know basketball. Harden and Westbrook are going to be highly motivated to win a Championship and are now the best guard combo in the NBA.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#139 » by Daddy 801 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:22 am

tleikheen wrote:Westbrook is better than Conley and Mitchell and now he's teaming up with James Harden. Anybody who thinks Harden /Westbrook aren't going to ne serious contenders doesn't know basketball. Harden and Westbrook are going to be highly motivated to win a Championship and are now the best guard combo in the NBA.



I don’t think anyone doesn’t take them serious. But CP3 has our number as a midrange shooter. Houston probably gets the number one seed this year. But I’d much rather see Westbrook in the playoffs over CP3.
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Re: How do the Jazz stack up against WC Contenders? 

Post#140 » by Tom349 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 am

I must be the only one who rates even current version of Paul higher than current version of Westbrook. He might have taken a step back this past season but he is still one of the best, if not the best defender at PG and a much better fit than Westbrook next to Harden. Hopefully he ends up on an Eastern conference team.

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