2019 Heat Offseason thread 4.0- Yimmy and the Kids!

[gom]

We aren’t saying to not take the chance... we are saying that a certain price is too expensive of a price to take that chance.

My suggestion for Chris Paul and picks coming back seems better than sending out picks for Russell Westbrook, when you consider both players are good starting point guards, have about the same chance of playing well until the end of their contracts (despite the difference in age), Chris Paul being a better team leader (plus as HEATlanta mentions, president of the player's union, which is an organization the players and all good fans support and respect)... plus he'll take us to the ECF.

If these are the options:

(a) Trade Goran/Waiters/JJ for Chris Paul and a pick.
(b) Trade Goran/Winslow/JJ for Chris Paul and two picks.
(c) Trade Goran/Winslow/filler/picks for Westbrook
(d) Do nothing.

I'm not taking C.

So you're saying that Winslow is only worth a lottery protected FRP. Is that how lowly you rate him?

LOL. That's not what I'm saying at all. My choice would be (D). I really wish we could get some picks back though. Also, I doubt if RIGHT NOW Winslow returns more than a lottery FRP. You could check on T&T, but that would be my guess.

[DayofMourning]

Chris Paul is a better player than Dragic, a better engineer of an offense. The question for me is how much better? We can potentially have Dragic off our hands by the end of the year, does the ceiling of this team with CP drastically change enough to sacrifice cap flexibility over the next few summers? Can you luck up into a Finals run next year with a Paul/Butler + youngins core? I'm also asking this under the pretext that its CP3 and CP3 alone, we don't have the assets to accumulate another star player via trade unless some of these rookies prove themselves and garner value.

CP is getting dumped on a bit here. He is a bigger winner than WB in my eyes. He isn't the crazy athlete or triple double machine, but his advanced stats and team wins are routinely top of the league. He's a very good player, and doesn't require rare athleticism to make a big impact.

He has some personality negatives, and that third year on his contract is handicapping, but he will make us a helluva lot better than Dragic ever could.

If we could get him, and get our picks back, and (fantasy world time) get that option year removed, then it's pretty much in line with the 2021 plan 90% of the folks on here are advocating.

[twix2500]

If this deal gets done, then essentially the Heat are trying to field:

PG: Chris Paul - ??
SG: Jimmy Butler - Tyler Herro - ??
SF: Justise Winslow - Duncan Robinson - ??
PF: Kelly Olynyk - ??
Ce: Bam Adebayo - Yante Maten

I am just pointing that will for sure be on the team trading for Paul. I can see DJJ possibly thrown in the trade.

[Spacely]

If OKC gave us like four picks do you think we could flip those 4 picks into Beal?

[MartyCONLONNN]

seems like Heat are all in. Wade definitely has some say with CP_ too im guessing. We can load manage Paul and Give Winslow and Jimmy playmaking duties. Interested in seeing Bam’s screen and roll timing improve working with CP. There are benefits to this but damn we better hope these young guys take a real leap in the coupe years. If so, we are looking at the top 4 in an open Eastern conference which we can all agree is better than what we been through these past 3 years.

[Kobewade11]

If OKC gave us like four picks do you think we could flip those 4 picks into Beal?

We need to forget about Beal for now guys. Right now his cost would be two unprotected firsts and a couple of prospects, we dont have that. Check back in a year or so after he demands a trade.

[HeatingUp3]

CP won't take us anywhere. There is no need to rush to find someone to play with Jimmy.. dragic is good PG for us. And he shoot the ball better. No way is hell we need CP contract on our back. This man will be a 37 years old shadow of himself man making 40
-50 million dollars. Its absord!

[Seabass777]

At the 10:00 minute mark you can watch Riley give his thoughts on Chris Paul

Watch on YouTube

[Kobewade11]

Chris Paul is a better player than Dragic, a better engineer of an offense. The question for me is how much better? We can potentially have Dragic off our hands by the end of the year, does the ceiling of this team with CP drastically change enough to sacrifice cap flexibility over the next few summers? Can you luck up into a Finals run next year with a Paul/Butler + youngins core? I'm also asking this under the pretext that its CP3 and CP3 alone, we don't have the assets to accumulate another star player via trade unless some of these rookies prove themselves and garner value.

CP is getting dumped on a bit here. He is a bigger winner than WB in my eyes. He isn't the crazy athlete or triple double machine, but his advanced stats and team wins are routinely top of the league. He's a very good player, and doesn't require rare athleticism to make a big impact.

He has some personality negatives, and that third year on his contract is handicapping, but he will make us a helluva lot better than Dragic ever could.

If we could get him, and get our picks back, and (fantasy world time) get that option year removed, then it's pretty much in line with the 2021 plan 90% of the folks on here are advocating.

I dont have a problem with CP the player, thats why Im asking is it a move that can get us into title contention this year.

[MiamiLoyal926]

I think essentially, OKC is willing to give the Heat Chris Paul alone for what the Heat offered for Westbrook.

And why should we want to do that? Especially considering that they were asking for young players. Not even for a combo of our expiring deals would it make sense for us. If that is what they are thinking then they can find another team to trade with. That contract is now their problem, not ours.

I said what the Heat were willing to offer. Heat were not willing to give up young players. If OKC is willing to take that for Paul then they got exactly what they wanted for Westbrook two young players (draft picks from Houston) and fillers on shorter deals (from Miami)

CP is a far greater negative asset than Westbrook due to age and injuries. No way should our offer be the same as what we were willing to do for Westbrook. Cap relief comes with a price, and OKC needs to pay up to get that relief. They no longer are offering this shiny player, they are offering a rusty, over the hill player with the same albatross of a contract. That’s gonna cost them to get rid of.

[DayofMourning]

There isn't a page I can find easily stating win loss records for players, but IIRC the team records for wins for the three teams CP has played for all happened on his watch. He gets you W's.

[DayofMourning]

I dont have a problem with CP the player, thats why Im asking is it a move that can get us into title contention this year.

I meant "here" as in this forum in general. With CP, you are going to win probably 20% (just making that number up) more than with someone else in his position. He'd make Bam an efficient player without a doubt.

Thing is, he's probably getting hurt at some point in time, maybe even in the playoffs.

[walk with me]

Keep cp3 out of a heat jersey please...

[twix2500]

And why should we want to do that? Especially considering that they were asking for young players. Not even for a combo of our expiring deals would it make sense for us. If that is what they are thinking then they can find another team to trade with. That contract is now their problem, not ours.

I said what the Heat were willing to offer. Heat were not willing to give up young players. If OKC is willing to take that for Paul then they got exactly what they wanted for Westbrook two young players (draft picks from Houston) and fillers on shorter deals (from Miami)

CP is a far greater negative asset than Westbrook due to age and injuries. No way should our offer be the same as what we were willing to do for Westbrook. Cap relief comes with a price, and OKC needs to pay up to get that relief. They no longer are offering this shiny player, they are offering a rusty, over the hill player with the same albatross of a contract. That’s gonna cost them to get rid of.

Well that is between the Heat and OKC. Heat did not want to give up any young players for Westbrook. OKC wanted two young prospects, they got them in the Westbrook trade in forms of draft picks. It would be pointless for them to now turn around and give that to the Heat. I do not believe any of our young players on on the table for Paul. All they are gonna get is cap fillers on shorter deals from the Heat.

[wade44]

No thanks on Paul even if it's for just our trash contracts

Two wrongs don't make a right

[MartyCONLONNN]

If this deal gets done, then enssentially the Heat are trying to field:

PG: Chris Paul - ??
SG: Jimmy Butler - Tyler Herro - ??
SF: Justise Winslow - Duncan Robinson - ??
PF: Kelly Olynyk - ??
Ce: Bam Adebayo - Yante Maten

You’re forgetting DJJ who was a huge rotation piece and one of our key defenders and Leonard who is a rotation guy especially with the spacing he provides. Nunn is looking like he will make the team as a scoring combo guard but you can slot him in the backup 1 spot.

[twozeroMM]

If I'm Pat and the front office, I see what the Rockets are willing to attach to the CP deal, then take that and go to the Wizards and see what it'll take to get Beal. If what the Rockets are giving us isn't enough for Beal, plus Winslow, then move on from the idea of bringing in Paul.

[AirP.]

I think Chris Paul's game will age well although he's on the decline and I believe Harden have affected CP3s effectiveness on the court way more then CP3s aging because of how much Harden dominates the ball and then does very little off the ball. I think Houston just understood CP3 and Harden just couldn't exist together.

Here are the games in Houston CP3 played without Harden.

2017-2018
vs Orl 8 pts, 13 ast, 7 reb, 2 stls
vs GS 28 pts, 9 ast 7 reb
vs Det 16 pts, 13 ast, 2 stls
vs Chi 24 pts, 9 ast, 8 reb
vs Por 37 pts, 11 ast, 7 reb
vs Phx 25 pts, 6 ast, 8 reb
vs LAC 19 pts, 7 ast, 6 reb
vs Dal 24 pts, 12 ast, 5 reb
vs Chi 13 pts, 10 ast, 4 reb, 4 stl
- Harden avg 21.5 pts, 10 ast
Season avg 18.6 pts, 7.9 ast


2018-2019
vs LAC 12 pts, 8 ast, 6 reb, 2 stl
vs Por 17 pts, 9 ast, 5 reb, 2 stl
vs Brk 32 pts, 11 ast, 7 reb, 2 stl, 2 blk
vs GS 23 pts, 17 ast, 5 reb
vs Chi 13 pts, 10 ast, 4 reb in 27 minutes
-Harden avg 22.2 pts, 11 ast
Season avg 15.6 pts, 8.2 ast

He's on a bad contract for 3 years, 2 could be productive for the Heat, the 3rd could be utilized as an expiring if he's not playing well.

Having 2 high BB IQ guys in Butler and CP3 should help develop the younger guys, if the Heat can get good defense from the center position, I really like their chances.

[twix2500]

This is what I am doing if I was the Heat;



And then use Dragic to regain depth back in the front court and point guard position

[MiamiLoyal926]

I said what the Heat were willing to offer. Heat were not willing to give up young players. If OKC is willing to take that for Paul then they got exactly what they wanted for Westbrook two young players (draft picks from Houston) and fillers on shorter deals (from Miami)

CP is a far greater negative asset than Westbrook due to age and injuries. No way should our offer be the same as what we were willing to do for Westbrook. Cap relief comes with a price, and OKC needs to pay up to get that relief. They no longer are offering this shiny player, they are offering a rusty, over the hill player with the same albatross of a contract. That’s gonna cost them to get rid of.

Well that is between the Heat and OKC. Heat did not want to give up any young players for Westbrook. OKC wanted two young prospects, they got them in the Westbrook trade in forms of draft picks. It would be pointless for them to now turn around and give that to the Heat. I do not believe any of our young players on on the table for Paul. All they are gonna get is cap fillers on shorter deals from the Heat.

Then we walk away. What is the incentive here to get them from out of that deal? It’s not like CP is a positive asset at this point in his career with that contract. We just got off of giving Wade the minimum 2 years in a row at that age. Wade is the Miami HEAT and we gave him the min during these years. Why should we give Paul nearly 40 for the same age years and do it without incentive from the team being saved from that?