Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[Zonkerbl]

"I'm not stupid I'm intentionally ignoring facts that contradict what I want to believe and you can't stop me."

So if you're wondering why you haven't changed anyone's mind on this board, there you go.

It's actually people like you that are convincing more and more of us that we should force you to pay more taxes.

Assuming you're rich that is, for all I know you're one of those delusional poor people who have been brainwashed into idolizing the wealthy.

[daoneandonly]

"I'm not stupid I'm intentionally ignoring facts that contradict what I want to believe and you can't stop me."

So if you're wondering why you haven't changed anyone's mind on this board, there you go.

It's actually people like you that are convincing more and more of us that we should force you to pay more taxes.

Assuming you're rich that is, for all I know you're one of those delusional poor people who have been brainwashed into idolizing the wealthy.

What facts? That Hungary who implemented a flat tax system and now are better off for it?

Didn't say I was rich, but I dont owe you or anyone like you a damn thing. I don't use any more services than you do, in fact I'll wager I use less than most of the people paying the microscopic amounts from their income, yet reep more of the benefits form tax payer money.

How about this, have some damn ambition to work harder and earn more, a flat tax will at least instill that in some.

[Zonkerbl]

"I'm not stupid I'm intentionally ignoring facts that contradict what I want to believe and you can't stop me."

So if you're wondering why you haven't changed anyone's mind on this board, there you go.

It's actually people like you that are convincing more and more of us that we should force you to pay more taxes.

Assuming you're rich that is, for all I know you're one of those delusional poor people who have been brainwashed into idolizing the wealthy.

What facts? That Hungary who implemented a flat tax system and now are better off for it?

Didn't say I was rich, but I dont owe you or anyone like you a damn thing. I don't use any more services than you do, in fact I'll wager I use less than most of the people paying the microscopic amounts from their income, yet reep more of the benefits form tax payer money.

How about this, have some damn ambition to work harder and earn more, a flat tax will at least instill that in some.

Trump didn't get rich by working harder and earning more. His daddy gave him $400 million dollars over his lifetime. That's who's winning in this system, not hard workers. Hard workers are earning the same they did when Reagan was President. That's the America you want?

People like us are one serious illness away from losing our jobs and going bankrupt. That doesn't happen if you've got daddy's money. Everybody else gets thrown to the wolves. And you're in favor of this? Why do you hate America?

[daoneandonly]

"I'm not stupid I'm intentionally ignoring facts that contradict what I want to believe and you can't stop me."

So if you're wondering why you haven't changed anyone's mind on this board, there you go.

It's actually people like you that are convincing more and more of us that we should force you to pay more taxes.

Assuming you're rich that is, for all I know you're one of those delusional poor people who have been brainwashed into idolizing the wealthy.

What facts? That Hungary who implemented a flat tax system and now are better off for it?

Didn't say I was rich, but I dont owe you or anyone like you a damn thing. I don't use any more services than you do, in fact I'll wager I use less than most of the people paying the microscopic amounts from their income, yet reep more of the benefits form tax payer money.

How about this, have some damn ambition to work harder and earn more, a flat tax will at least instill that in some.

Trump didn't get rich by working harder and earning more. His daddy gave him $400 million dollars over his lifetime. That's who's winning in this system, not hard workers. Hard workers are earning the same they did when Reagan was President. That's the America you want?

People like us are one serious illness away from losing our jobs and going bankrupt. That doesn't happen if you've got daddy's money. Everybody else gets thrown to the wolves. And you're in favor of this? Why do you hate America?

Yea because everyone has a rich daddy like Trump, stop with that nonsense.

My family is from a 3rd world country, one Trump himself would call an s-hole. And guess what? Nothing was handed to them liek sanders, warren, kamala, and aoc want to do going forward. They busted their back sides to make a life for their kids, sacrifice beyond sacrifice, so you are rather clueless.

And to even bring up illness shows your lack of class, how many people fall into that category that are gaming the system and benefiting for something they shouldn't? The ones who are sick are the ones we should help. And if we can have robotic laparoscopic surgeries, have the internet at our fingertips, 3d printing capabilities, you best believe we can damn sure differentiate the people that legitimately need help versus the people that just want a hand out.

[Zonkerbl]

What facts? That Hungary who implemented a flat tax system and now are better off for it?

Didn't say I was rich, but I dont owe you or anyone like you a damn thing. I don't use any more services than you do, in fact I'll wager I use less than most of the people paying the microscopic amounts from their income, yet reep more of the benefits form tax payer money.

How about this, have some damn ambition to work harder and earn more, a flat tax will at least instill that in some.

Trump didn't get rich by working harder and earning more. His daddy gave him $400 million dollars over his lifetime. That's who's winning in this system, not hard workers. Hard workers are earning the same they did when Reagan was President. That's the America you want?

People like us are one serious illness away from losing our jobs and going bankrupt. That doesn't happen if you've got daddy's money. Everybody else gets thrown to the wolves. And you're in favor of this? Why do you hate America?

Yea because everyone has a rich daddy like Trump, stop with that nonsense.

My family is from a 3rd world country, one Trump himself would call an s-hole. And guess what? Nothing was handed to them liek sanders, warren, kamala, and aoc want to do going forward. They busted their back sides to make a life for their kids, sacrifice beyond sacrifice, so you are rather clueless.

And to even bring up illness shows your lack of class, how many people fall into that category that are gaming the system and benefiting for something they shouldn't? The ones who are sick are the ones we should help. And if we can have robotic laparoscopic surgeries, have the internet at our fingertips, 3d printing capabilities, you best believe we can damn sure differentiate the people that legitimately need help versus the people that just want a hand out.

Wow man. No wonder the people on this board hate you. Never seen so many lies strung together in so small a space. Alright I'm tagging out, guys, this one's a goner.

[daoneandonly]

Trump didn't get rich by working harder and earning more. His daddy gave him $400 million dollars over his lifetime. That's who's winning in this system, not hard workers. Hard workers are earning the same they did when Reagan was President. That's the America you want?

People like us are one serious illness away from losing our jobs and going bankrupt. That doesn't happen if you've got daddy's money. Everybody else gets thrown to the wolves. And you're in favor of this? Why do you hate America?

Yea because everyone has a rich daddy like Trump, stop with that nonsense.

My family is from a 3rd world country, one Trump himself would call an s-hole. And guess what? Nothing was handed to them liek sanders, warren, kamala, and aoc want to do going forward. They busted their back sides to make a life for their kids, sacrifice beyond sacrifice, so you are rather clueless.

And to even bring up illness shows your lack of class, how many people fall into that category that are gaming the system and benefiting for something they shouldn't? The ones who are sick are the ones we should help. And if we can have robotic laparoscopic surgeries, have the internet at our fingertips, 3d printing capabilities, you best believe we can damn sure differentiate the people that legitimately need help versus the people that just want a hand out.

Wow man. No wonder the people on this board hate you. Never seen so many lies strung together in so small a space. Alright I'm tagging out, guys, this one's a goner.

Great I'll do the needful as well. happy to be rid of you as well, a retired mod should have more decency. I didnt lie about a damn thing, I know my family story and the ultra left politicians mindset.

[pancakes3]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

[gtn130]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

[thisiskoz]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

Then you add in the irony when their position changes after they have that experience. Whether it's the anti gay politician who is secretly having affairs with men in his office. Or the one who changed his stance on homosexuality being a choice after their kid came out as gay. Or the anti abortion advocate who gladly drives their teenage kid to the abortion clinic cause a pregnancy shouldn't derail their daughters future.

Principles.

[Pointgod]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

“Why can’t we just let poor people die?”-daoneandonly
And1 from Popper

[Pointgod]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

[dckingsfan]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

You see where you guys took that... I hate to do it but please cite where daoneandonly said people have abortions because they want to murder babies? What I remember when having the discussion (and it was long and circuitous) is that people were selfish and complicit in murder (you see the difference between "want to murder babies"?). And you know I completely disagree with him on the subject (in my opinion he didn't have answers to the problem).

Second - seeing a pregnant women begging for money. That is anecdotal - very sad but anecdotal. Did you stop. Did you buy her lunch? Did you find out if she needed help and why?

And third, you repeatedly come back with the Trump = executions = Nazi. You guys might not like that you are making the argument but you have repeatedly done so. If you are going to show some real awareness of history and can cite parallels between Hitler and Trump. Go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump (which you are doing when you say "rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them". Zonk will now scream at me and say how dare you. But that's my challenge if you want to use that kind of logic.

For example - if you could show how mass deportation eventually leads to mass execution, I am all ears.

[popper]

Earlier today coming back from lunch, where i saw a young, pregnant woman on the side of the road begging for money. based on her showing, she's maybe 4-5 months pregnant. And my heart just broke. Then checking this thread after seeing that? It broke twice over.

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

No hand wringing here pointgod. Obviously the hypothetical is ridiculous and unworthy of a response. I do however want to offer you some advise. Tearing people down takes no talent. You and Trump have that in common. If you really care about the world you live in then try to have some positive impact on those in your sphere. Tearing people down who disagree with you politically is a net negative influence on society and frankly a misuse of your time.

If you don’t already, volunteer at a local charity. Teach a kid to read. There’s no end to the good you can do in the world if you put service before self. I’d also like to recommend a book to you. It’s about a society that couldn’t accommodate political differences and is a first hand account of what that looks like up close and personal. It’s also a story of how broken men living in impossible conditions chose light over darkness and found redemption amidst hopelessness and despair (The Gulag Archipelago). I promise it will change your outlook on the world.

Lastly, I sincerely want the best for you pointgod. But I know you won’t be able to achieve your best if you look to denigrate and tear others down. You’re better than that and can have a positive impact on the world with the right attitude.

[doclinkin]

Luke 12:48: For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.. Essentially words doc quoted

Cool. So even god is on the side of helping the poor not suffer. Neat when things line up that way.

The quote makes sense, regardless of what tradition it is pulled from. Religions the world over identify basic human ethics. The fact is you can get rich by being ambitious and self interested. Of course. And if you are gifted with opportunities and the luck to be born in a country with resources that can provide a better future for yourself and your family then great.

Opportunities are not evenly distributed. This is why your family chose to move here from a country where their struggle could not result in reward. And they raised you in a country with public education and a medical system that may have saved your life in a recent health scare if I recall correctly. And you have gotten a glimpse of how dangerous it might be not to have that safety net.

But poor people can’t pay for public education. Disproportionately their basic means suffer. If you could have a flat tax on surplus income after means are met. If rent and groceries etc were deductible and there was no sales tax but instead profit and wealth were taxed, well then yeah a flat tax might be ‘fair’.

But if you relied on the poor to pay for that education then we’d have pretty poor education. And in economically depressed areas of the country we do. Education suffers.

I’m glad you agree we should have a safety net. You suggest in a country where we have 3D printers etc there ought to be a better method of assessing if someone truly needs that safety net or not. But all the advances you cite were created with profit in mind. And significant money poured into R&D. So yes. We should be smarter and more efficient at delivering help to those with the greatest needs. What’s your proposal. An AI? A phone app? Better delivery of services to the needy with better trained staff and better resources would cost money. Where does that money come from? The poor? If they had it they wouldn’t need it. And would that money be more likely to reach them by spending those resources on advances in targeting them? What if you were more likely to reach them simply by having that money available for the services themselves?

Here’s a question. Which is worse: Theft or manslaughter by neglect? If a woman stole infant formula to feed her baby you might forgive her. Or buy it for her. If she left the baby to starve to death you’d think that was a horror.

Shouldn’t our country operate the same way? Yes there will be people who game the system. And work with incredible innovation to do the least work possible and live off of somebody else’s efforts. It’s shxtty. I hate that feeling. Getting beat. However. It will happen.

But which is worse: that sometimes people will get away with stealing. Or that sometimes babies will die. Old people will freeze to death. That people will be murdered by neglect. By lack of care. Which is the worse sin? Theft? Or manslaughter.

There are people who have all the ambition in the world who lack the skills. Talents to succeed. Should a severely autistic child just be turned out on the streets when he is 18 and let to starve to death sitting on a curb? He should just work harder?

If an elderly man becomes senile, should he just wander off into February and die of exposure? He should just work harder not to be old? That’s the America you want to live in? One that punishes people for having disadvantages?

America is better than that. The bargain is: you get to be rich. Maybe a percentage less rich than you might be. But some part of that wealth will be the quality of life of living in a country that will protect the least of us by leaning on the strength of the best of us.

You can search any religion you want but at some point that is basic morality. The strong protect the weak because they can. Therefore it is their duty. Feel free to participate in the process and argue about the best way it should be spent. With votes and laws. But I can’t see how people who reach the upper tax brackets have any way to complain that the world is unfair to them by asking for more of their help. You ask for help from those who can afford to give it.

[doclinkin]

I’d also like to recommend a book to you. It’s about a society that couldn’t accommodate political differences and is a first hand account of what that looks like up close and personal. It’s also a story of how broken men living in impossible conditions chose light over darkness and found redemption amidst hopelessness and despair (The Gulag Archipelago). I promise it will change your outlook on the world.

It’s a brilliant idea. I love that book. Deep and beautiful and harrowing and bleak. We should distribute copies to all the families in the immigration internment camps. To remind them to find light in the darkness. —Well, given that the lights are on 24 hours a day there, we could use a different metaphor to make the point. But still. I’m sure they’ll get the message of hope.

[Pointgod]

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

You see where you guys took that... I hate to do it but please cite where daoneandonly said people have abortions because they want to murder babies? What I remember when having the discussion (and it was long and circuitous) is that people were selfish and complicit in murder (you see the difference between "want to murder babies"?). And you know I completely disagree with him on the subject (in my opinion he didn't have answers to the problem).

Second - seeing a pregnant women begging for money. That is anecdotal - very sad but anecdotal. Did you stop. Did you buy her lunch? Did you find out if she needed help and why?

And third, you repeatedly come back with the Trump = executions = Nazi. You guys might not like that you are making the argument but you have repeatedly done so. If you are going to show some real awareness of history and can cite parallels between Hitler and Trump. Go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump (which you are doing when you say "rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them". Zonk will now scream at me and say how dare you. But that's my challenge if you want to use that kind of logic.

For example - if you could show how mass deportation eventually leads to mass execution, I am all ears.

Daoneandonly has said many times that Democrats are baby murders and has directed it at posters in the political thread. He was probably saying it tongue in cheek or as hyperbole but I don’t really care because he’s a nut bag that I don’t take very seriously. My hypothetical wasn’t even posed directly at anything he’s said but rather his line of thinking “if it doesn’t affect me I don’t care or if it’s against the people I don’t care for then it’s fine”. Yes it was very extreme and that’s the point how far are you willing to let things go because of insane partisanship? It’s a question that’s not that hard to answer. For example, I despise white supremacists and think they’re the lowest of lows that actually represent a threat to non white people, but if some President started rounding them up and started executing them because they could, I’d burn down any administration and political party that supported that. Even terrorists deserve due process.

See how easy that is to answer?

As for your offense of comparing Trump to Nazis, my question is why is mass extermination where we have to draw the line? We know for a fact that migrants are dying while in detention, we know for a fact they’re being subjected to inhumane conditions that we wouldn’t subject animals to, little girls have been sexually abused. Trump is authorizing immigration raids this weekend, which will undoubtedly hurt people and do nothing to address the underlying problem. Rock bottom has already been passed, Republicans cheered Trump when he wanted to ban a whole religion from entering the country. Even if all the comparisons to Hitler stopped, these things would still be going on and it’s only going to get worse. This is happening because of Trump, enabled by Republicans in Congress and supported by Republican voters.

Remember Popper and daoneandonly gladly support Trump and the Republican Party that enables all of this. I don’t for one second believe that they won’t vote for Trump and all Republicans next election, which means that for all their morally superiority, they’ll gladly abandon their religious values for partisan politics. So I ask them and I’m going to pose this question to you dckingsfan as well, how far is too far as long as it’s not your side?

[Pointgod]

Yeah the total lack of empathy or desire to understand anyone else's situation but their own is a bedrock trait at this point among certain political groups. I've mentioned it a few times, but daoneandonly genuinely believes people have abortions because they want to murder babies.

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

No hand wringing here pointgod. Obviously the hypothetical is ridiculous and unworthy of a response. I do however want to offer you some advise. Tearing people down takes no talent. You and Trump have that in common. If you really care about the world you live in then try to have some positive impact on those in your sphere. Tearing people down who disagree with you politically is a net negative influence on society and frankly a misuse of your time.

If you don’t already, volunteer at a local charity. Teach a kid to read. There’s no end to the good you can do in the world if you put service before self. I’d also like to recommend a book to you. It’s about a society that couldn’t accommodate political differences and is a first hand account of what that looks like up close and personal. It’s also a story of how broken men living in impossible conditions chose light over darkness and found redemption amidst hopelessness and despair (The Gulag Archipelago). I promise it will change your outlook on the world.

Lastly, I sincerely want the best for you pointgod. But I know you won’t be able to achieve your best if you look to denigrate and tear others down. You’re better than that and can have a positive impact on the world with the right attitude.

Your moral superiority is completely empty since you support a man that is the epitome of everything you just accused me of. So are you going to answer the question or what?

[popper]

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

No hand wringing here pointgod. Obviously the hypothetical is ridiculous and unworthy of a response. I do however want to offer you some advise. Tearing people down takes no talent. You and Trump have that in common. If you really care about the world you live in then try to have some positive impact on those in your sphere. Tearing people down who disagree with you politically is a net negative influence on society and frankly a misuse of your time.

If you don’t already, volunteer at a local charity. Teach a kid to read. There’s no end to the good you can do in the world if you put service before self. I’d also like to recommend a book to you. It’s about a society that couldn’t accommodate political differences and is a first hand account of what that looks like up close and personal. It’s also a story of how broken men living in impossible conditions chose light over darkness and found redemption amidst hopelessness and despair (The Gulag Archipelago). I promise it will change your outlook on the world.

Lastly, I sincerely want the best for you pointgod. But I know you won’t be able to achieve your best if you look to denigrate and tear others down. You’re better than that and can have a positive impact on the world with the right attitude.

Your moral superiority is completely empty since you support a man that is the epitome of everything you just accused me of. So are you going to answer the question or what?

I have lots of moral shortcomings pointgod. I did support a man with some of the same issues that you have when it comes to tearing people down. Notice I’m supporting you as well. That’s why I took the time to offer some advise. I think people of all political persuasions have something to contribute (including you) and it behooves us all to direct our efforts in the most positive way possible.

I’m certainly not immune to the occasional slip of the tongue or mean spirited thought or comment. I’m older than you so I’ve had more practice in recognizing, acknowledging, regretting and apologizing for those times that I mistreat or don’t sufficiently respect another person. I offered my advise to you in good faith and I hope somehow you can benefit from it.

And no, I can’t dignify your question with a response. No American President is going to round up liberals, Democrats, conservatives or Republicans and execute them. You need not worry about that.

[dckingsfan]

I genuinely want to ask what Popper and daoneandonly would do if Trump started rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them? I bet there would be a lot of hand wringing in that answer.

You see where you guys took that... I hate to do it but please cite where daoneandonly said people have abortions because they want to murder babies? What I remember when having the discussion (and it was long and circuitous) is that people were selfish and complicit in murder (you see the difference between "want to murder babies"?). And you know I completely disagree with him on the subject (in my opinion he didn't have answers to the problem).

Second - seeing a pregnant women begging for money. That is anecdotal - very sad but anecdotal. Did you stop. Did you buy her lunch? Did you find out if she needed help and why?

And third, you repeatedly come back with the Trump = executions = Nazi. You guys might not like that you are making the argument but you have repeatedly done so. If you are going to show some real awareness of history and can cite parallels between Hitler and Trump. Go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump (which you are doing when you say "rounding up Liberals and Democrats and started executing them". Zonk will now scream at me and say how dare you. But that's my challenge if you want to use that kind of logic.

For example - if you could show how mass deportation eventually leads to mass execution, I am all ears.

Daoneandonly has said many times that Democrats are baby murders and has directed it at posters in the political thread. He was probably saying it tongue in cheek or as hyperbole but I don’t really care because he’s a nut bag that I don’t take very seriously. My hypothetical wasn’t even posed directly at anything he’s said but rather his line of thinking “if it doesn’t affect me I don’t care or if it’s against the people I don’t care for then it’s fine”. Yes it was very extreme and that’s the point how far are you willing to let things go because of insane partisanship? It’s a question that’s not that hard to answer. For example, I despise white supremacists and think they’re the lowest of lows that actually represent a threat to non white people, but if some President started rounding them up and started executing them because they could, I’d burn down any administration and political party that supported that. Even terrorists deserve due process.

See how easy that is to answer?

As for your offense of comparing Trump to Nazis, my question is why is mass extermination where we have to draw the line? We know for a fact that migrants are dying while in detention, we know for a fact they’re being subjected to inhumane conditions that we wouldn’t subject animals to, little girls have been sexually abused. Trump is authorizing immigration raids this weekend, which will undoubtedly hurt people and do nothing to address the underlying problem. Rock bottom has already been passed, Republicans cheered Trump when he wanted to ban a whole religion from entering the country. Even if all the comparisons to Hitler stopped, these things would still be going on and it’s only going to get worse. This is happening because of Trump, enabled by Republicans in Congress and supported by Republican voters.

Remember Popper and daoneandonly gladly support Trump and the Republican Party that enables all of this. I don’t for one second believe that they won’t vote for Trump and all Republicans next election, which means that for all their morally superiority, they’ll gladly abandon their religious values for partisan politics. So I ask them and I’m going to pose this question to you dckingsfan as well, how far is too far as long as it’s not your side?

Yep, that is a difficult question. If any kind of "extermination" started happening - that would be way over my line. Regardless, I will never vote for Trump. He is racist. He has dementia. He doesn't care about sustainable government. On climate change, he is a denialist.

But what order of magnitude of people died making the trek vs. being incarcerated? How do we stop those treks from happening? Note: There is no justification for ever separating a child from their parent.

Question: how far is too far on the other side? Open boarders (is that rock bottom?)? Free social services for those that come into the country (what do we cut to make that happen?)? Making immigration in the US a black & white subject isn't as easy as you make it out to be. Look at the UK and Brexit - what drove that? Immigration. Truly, I want the Democratic party to have a platform that I WANT to vote for in this election cycle - but damn, they make it hard. And to answer your question in advance. Yes, I will vote against Trump.

BTW, daoneandonly & Popper voting for Trump will only hasten the demise of the R party (as it will end up morally bankrupt in the end) although that end won't come as soon as you would like.

[pancakes3]

it's really tough to hold a conversation of civility and respect for the "other side" and hear people say that "damn, they [Democrats] make it hard" in the face of daily updates like the one below, and then seeing Trump polling at ~85% approval within the party.

dckings asks rhetorically "how far is too far on the other side?" and handwrings over general policy hypotheticals when the sitting president is being openly and vilely racist on a daily basis is, most charitably framed, disingenuous.

just about every republican in this thread has said some version of "i don't support trump but..." and yet here he is polling at 85%. that's the cashier's receipt for your soul there, friend.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

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https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/jun/06/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-republican-voters-him-more-they-/

just bonus nuggets of awfulness in that:
- he felt the need to lie about his approval numbers, juicing it up to ~95% instead of 85% - no big deal
- retweeted brandon straka