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Trade for Chris Paul?

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#121 » by greymond » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:13 pm

Roronoa_Zoro wrote:I like Lowry as much as you do but raptors made it clear their not blowing the squad up(at least till the deadline) so I'm not even entertaining the thought of getting Lowry.

Chris Paul there for the taking now. Him and Blake got some patching up to do but I don't think they hate each other to the point it a irreparable relationship(or maybe it is).

Point being until I hear otherwise, we need to get cp3. Take his contract too. If the pistons had 34-42million(whatever the amount of cp3 contract is) to their disposal, be realistic and ask yourselves "what kind of player/s would Detroit be able to acquire based on past history and trends of the League"? Answer is players the level of Tony Snell and markieff Morris. Not exactly moving the needle.

why take cp3 contract when his contract is worth 3-5 players who at best are as good as Reggie Bullock and at worst as bad as Eric moreland -_- all I'm tryna say is the whole fanbase should be pushing and supporting the idea of getting cp3.
Pros

Cp3 helps dre hit ceiling
We r a second round playoff team
We r a fun team n momentum is built for a franchise
We pick up a pick with pauls contract maybe


Cons

Pauls contract ties us up for 3 seasons
Age 34 Paul isnt ever going to get better
Blake n Paul fueding ruins locker room
We miss out on upgrading due to his deal


If we didnt land westy who is such a better player making a little more money.. Then why the frick would we want cp3 who is basically a hella worse scenario then westy age, production, contract for production at this point. To me you either got westy n are in win now mode or you don't sacrifice the future for cp3. We strike out on 2 big FAs in 2021 due to cp3 right. Not worth it. Cp3 at 37 or 2 chances at FAs in 2021. Easy peasy.

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#122 » by CubicalLake7 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:23 pm

The only way you take Paul is if OKC is sending two firsts, or a first and Bazley.

With CP3 and Griffin the team is competitive at least while Dre is around. The reason you do it is for the assets.

You develop Sekou, Bazley, Kennard, Brown, Thomas, Svi, Bone and Sirvydis along with the OKC first and your own first. If they don't send Bazley you have three 1st to develop.

In three years Blake and CP3 expire and you have a supporting cast centered around your developed talent. That is when you make a splash trading for a star.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#123 » by ChipButty » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:02 pm

CubicalLake7 wrote:The only way you take Paul is if OKC is sending two firsts, or a first and Bazley.

With CP3 and Griffin the team is competitive at least while Dre is around. The reason you do it is for the assets.

You develop Sekou, Bazley, Kennard, Brown, Thomas, Svi, Bone and Sirvydis along with the OKC first and your own first. If they don't send Bazley you have three 1st to develop.

In three years Blake and CP3 expire and you have a supporting cast centered around your developed talent. That is when you make a splash trading for a star.


I agree with this. You make the trade b/c it provides a more competitive team for the next couple of years and gives you more assets to build around after that. No assets, no trade.

CP3 and Westbrook have completely different games so age isn't a deal breaker to me. CP3 has a shorter contract than Westbrook and is the better 3 point shooter. Opponents cannot back off him when he has the ball and he can help space the floor when he is off the ball. Decent chance that CP3 can be productive in his mid 30's similar to how guys like Nash and Kidd were. If not, maybe look to buy him out in a year or 2.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#124 » by Pharaoh » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:06 pm

CubicalLake7 wrote:The only way you take Paul is if OKC is sending two firsts, or a first and Bazley.

With CP3 and Griffin the team is competitive at least while Dre is around. The reason you do it is for the assets.

You develop Sekou, Bazley, Kennard, Brown, Thomas, Svi, Bone and Sirvydis along with the OKC first and your own first. If they don't send Bazley you have three 1st to develop.

In three years Blake and CP3 expire and you have a supporting cast centered around your developed talent. That is when you make a splash trading for a star.
So 3 years from now we're hoping to be more than a bottom seed?

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#125 » by CubicalLake7 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:50 pm

By the way, I am on record as saying I want to fully tear this team apart, trade Blake, Dre and start from the ground up. That said, I don't think that is happening with this owner.

My point with Paul is that if you are going to make this trade (which I don't want) it sure as hell include Bazley and a 1st or two 1st coming Detroit's way.

I also happen to think CP3 is a better fit than Russ would have been, despite the fact that Russ is a far better player and younger. He is also expiring with Blake so that was a consideration.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#126 » by CubicalLake7 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:53 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
CubicalLake7 wrote:The only way you take Paul is if OKC is sending two firsts, or a first and Bazley.

With CP3 and Griffin the team is competitive at least while Dre is around. The reason you do it is for the assets.

You develop Sekou, Bazley, Kennard, Brown, Thomas, Svi, Bone and Sirvydis along with the OKC first and your own first. If they don't send Bazley you have three 1st to develop.

In three years Blake and CP3 expire and you have a supporting cast centered around your developed talent. That is when you make a splash trading for a star.
So 3 years from now we're hoping to be more than a bottom seed?

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Actually you are hoping that you have developed and drafted well enough, and have the cap space in '22 when CP/BG come off the books, that you can trade some of the developed assets or future picks to acquire a super star. It is not a plan for an 8th seed.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#127 » by Pharaoh » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:59 am

Which superstar are you signing in Detroit 3 years from now?

Our best bet has always been to acquire superstars locked into deals already OR draft a superstar.

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#128 » by GreekAlex » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:54 am

Pharaoh wrote:Which superstar are you signing in Detroit 3 years from now?

Our best bet has always been to acquire superstars locked into deals already OR draft a superstar.

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3 years, Who’s going to be washed up, passed their prime and looking for a big pay check?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#129 » by zeebneeb » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:25 am

Pharaoh wrote:I don't understand what we're doing as a organisation.

Are we going to trade Dre? Are we going to trade Blake? Are we going to trade RJ & Galloway?

If the plan is to wait it out and not add payroll then we're gonna "bottom out" without any additional draft assets or young players.

Is the plan then going to be absorbing short bad deals for extra picks? If so we're another season, maybe 2 before we even start that! Then we'll have 3 maybe 4 years building through the draft and small signings before we once again get to a crossroads kinda situation!

That's a 5 or 6 year situation! Can this team really go on being irrelevant for another 5 or 6 years?

In those years we'd be hoping to find a guy like Blake, locked in to the rookie scale.

I was against giving up any young guys for Westbrook. One first rounder was my limit. But FMD it seems we're just gonna go in circles forever here.

Dre - Blake - Westbrook at least could habe been worth watching for 2 years. You never know who we could have added next year with the MLE or which of our young guys would have popped this year.

Now? It's the same old watet swirling around the toilet bowl hoping that if all goes well we can scrap into the playoffs as the 7th or 8th seed.

Westbrook was not a "all in" option - he was an attempt at making us better right here, right now.

Sad to see the organization still can't decide if it should **** or get off the pot! Instead we're gonna sit there and read the same old paper for another 5 years

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#130 » by Snakebites » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:27 am

I would love for us to trade Dre and Griffin and tear it all down.

It appears there's not much of a market for non-defensive big men making over 30 million per year in 2019 though. They say they're "happy" with the core, but that sounds a lot like Morey saying he was "happy" with Chris Paul when they realized they couldn't give the guy away.

And no, the fact that we can't trade them doesn't mean we may as well go all in. We already sorta did that with Blake and it got us a whopping 2 extra wins. Going further in that direction will make things more interesting for a few weeks before settling in to an even bleaker reality. Griffin pushed our rebuild back 2 years. I'd prefer not to push it further.

Is that awful? You bet it is. I think the dissonance we're seeing here is that I've realized how awful this is for a long time, where as others are still in earlier stages and think there's an easy way out. SVG, and Dumars before him, left us with a real mess, and I think some haven't realized just how deep a mess it's been. Might it take 5 more years? I dunno. Totally possible it could take that long. We might also get really bad in the next 2 years and draft the next phenom. You just don't know. When you're in a hole the first thing you do is STOP DIGGING. At least the current management has put down the shovel. I'd love to see us speed this up by moving some guys, but I think if we could do that viably we'd be doing it. Whether because there's no market or because Gores won't let them, it's not happening.

Unless of course you wanna keep going all in, knowing that all you're going to get is bloated contracts on non-needle moving players. Anybody think the Rockets are going to win more this year than last? I don't.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#131 » by DetroitPistons » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:49 am

Snakebites wrote:I would love for us to trade Dre and Griffin and tear it all down.

It appears there's not much of a market for non-defensive big men making over 30 million per year in 2019 though. They say they're "happy" with the core, but that sounds a lot like Morey saying he was "happy" with Chris Paul when they realized they couldn't give the guy away.

And no, the fact that we can't trade them doesn't mean we may as well go all in. We already sorta did that with Blake and it got us a whopping 2 extra wins. Going further in that direction will make things more interesting for a few weeks before settling in to an even bleaker reality. Griffin pushed our rebuild back 2 years. I'd prefer not to push it further.

Is that awful? You bet it is. I think the dissonance we're seeing here is that I've realized how awful this is for a long time, where as others are still in earlier stages and think there's an easy way out. SVG, and Dumars before him, left us with a real mess, and I think some haven't realized just how deep a mess it's been. Might it take 5 more years? I dunno. Totally possible it could take that long. We might also get really bad in the next 2 years and draft the next phenom. You just don't know.

Unless of course you wanna keep going all in, knowing that all you're going to get is bloated contracts on non-needle moving players. Anybody think the Rockets are going to win more this year than last? I don't.


I've been saying for awhile that we aren't in as bad of a position as some people think. We very well could try to make a trade for another star like a Westbrook, which I know you don't want, but we also could just as easily be sellers and trade Griffin for a couple FRPs. In one trade we could add future assets and let Jackson and Galloway expire and focus on developing Kennard, Doumbouya, and future prospects that we get with our own picks and through trading Griffin. So I disagree that it will take 5 years to bounce back. Everyone says that and it's honestly silly unless we keep screwing up of course. Teams turn things around in 2 to 3 years or less all the time. It just depends on what direction the front office wants to go but we are stuck or anything. That is great opportunity to change things quickly.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#132 » by Snakebites » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:30 am

It appears Gores didn't force us to go out and get Westbrook (the offer accepted was one we could have beaten) and isn't having us check on on CP3 either.

Anyone reconsidering whether it was really Gores who had us go out and get Blake Griffin? Where did the notion that he was so hands on with the direction of this team come from? I've believed it for a long time too, but in retrospect SVG's shortsightedness seems sufficient to explain what happened under his regime.

Which does unfortunately lend support to the notion that we're not "interested" in trading Drummond or Blake because nobody will give us assets for them. Having massive chunks of your cap space devoted to big men who don't play defense just isn't the way to build a roster anymore.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#133 » by Pharaoh » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:57 am

Dre can opt out after this season so acquiring Westbrook at least would have given the appearance we were trying to make something happen.

Next off-season you offer Dre a reasonable contract and if he walks he walks.

That's when you move Blake for picks and ****. And you'd look to flip Westbrook too.

Instead we'll do nothing, have another nothing season and then what? Dre opts out and we offer a reasonable deal?

Getting Westbrook wasn't the move to end all moves. It was a chance to move the needle though. And we stood pat

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#134 » by El Chivo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:40 am

A reasonable offer is 60x3 with a player option in year 3.

If they give Drummond more than 20 mln and more than 3 years I'm officially done as Pistons' fan.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#135 » by Pharaoh » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:01 pm

El Chivo wrote:A reasonable offer is 60x3 with a player option in year 3.

If they give Drummond more than 20 mln and more than 3 years I'm officially done as Pistons' fan.
What's his max? Cause if memory serves it's a boatload more than $20 mil & you're gonna end up in self imposed exile

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#136 » by DetroitDon15 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:09 pm

I’m starting to feel this forum is becoming the trade forum with each passing day.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#137 » by El Chivo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:35 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
El Chivo wrote:A reasonable offer is 60x3 with a player option in year 3.

If they give Drummond more than 20 mln and more than 3 years I'm officially done as Pistons' fan.
What's his max? Cause if memory serves it's a boatload more than $20 mil & you're gonna end up in self imposed exile

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So you think he's a max contract player?
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#138 » by thesack12 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:52 pm

Snakebites wrote:It appears Gores didn't force us to go out and get Westbrook (the offer accepted was one we could have beaten) and isn't having us check on on CP3 either.

Anyone reconsidering whether it was really Gores who had us go out and get Blake Griffin? Where did the notion that he was so hands on with the direction of this team come from? I've believed it for a long time too, but in retrospect SVG's shortsightedness seems sufficient to explain what happened under his regime.

Which does unfortunately lend support to the notion that we're not "interested" in trading Drummond or Blake because nobody will give us assets for them. Having massive chunks of your cap space devoted to big men who don't play defense just isn't the way to build a roster anymore.


We can only speculate on how much validity lies within them, but there have been several inclinations floating around for a few years now that SVG had trades in place for Dre only to have Gores veto them. It seems this happened more than once as well.

I believe that is where a lot of the notion that Gores is overtly hands on comes from.

We do know Gores said with his own mouth he is willing to go into the tax for the "right situation." Who determines what the "right situation" is up for debate. If that decision lies within Tom's judgement, I don't think we will see Detroit go into the luxury tax. For all we know Gores has shot down several potential trades because he didn't want to go into the tax. I personally believe this is one of the main reasons why Detroit didn't make a move for Westbrook, because it would have surely made the Pistons a tax paying team, and likely a perennial one.

Not saying I wanted to trade for Russ, nor would be ok with Detroit going into the tax. Just expressing that I don't think Gores can be taken for face value, and I do believe he's pulling more strings backstage than some might think.
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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#139 » by Manocad » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:00 pm

Snakebites wrote:I would love for us to trade Dre and Griffin and tear it all down.

It appears there's not much of a market for non-defensive big men making over 30 million per year in 2019 though. They say they're "happy" with the core, but that sounds a lot like Morey saying he was "happy" with Chris Paul when they realized they couldn't give the guy away.

And no, the fact that we can't trade them doesn't mean we may as well go all in. We already sorta did that with Blake and it got us a whopping 2 extra wins. Going further in that direction will make things more interesting for a few weeks before settling in to an even bleaker reality. Griffin pushed our rebuild back 2 years. I'd prefer not to push it further.

Is that awful? You bet it is. I think the dissonance we're seeing here is that I've realized how awful this is for a long time, where as others are still in earlier stages and think there's an easy way out. SVG, and Dumars before him, left us with a real mess, and I think some haven't realized just how deep a mess it's been. Might it take 5 more years? I dunno. Totally possible it could take that long. We might also get really bad in the next 2 years and draft the next phenom. You just don't know. When you're in a hole the first thing you do is STOP DIGGING. At least the current management has put down the shovel. I'd love to see us speed this up by moving some guys, but I think if we could do that viably we'd be doing it. Whether because there's no market or because Gores won't let them, it's not happening.

Unless of course you wanna keep going all in, knowing that all you're going to get is bloated contracts on non-needle moving players. Anybody think the Rockets are going to win more this year than last? I don't.

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Re: Trade for Chris Paul? 

Post#140 » by Manocad » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:04 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Dre can opt out after this season so acquiring Westbrook at least would have given the appearance we were trying to make something happen.

Next off-season you offer Dre a reasonable contract and if he walks he walks.

That's when you move Blake for picks and ****. And you'd look to flip Westbrook too.

Instead we'll do nothing, have another nothing season and then what? Dre opts out and we offer a reasonable deal?

Getting Westbrook wasn't the move to end all moves. It was a chance to move the needle though. And we stood pat

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I don’t agree that adding Westbrook would have made the Pistons significantly better. It’s nice to say that on paper but his game would detract from Blake’s production and his negatives add to where the Pistons are already bad.

And just flip him after a year or two? When he’s older, less athletic, and possibly even less wanted around the league? That makes sense to you?
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