Thunder Offseason Thread

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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3661 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:17 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
jake_swivel wrote:
Dunno. This time last year, I wouldn’t have said Paul George would be tampered with. Who knows what the possibilities are. But I wouldn’t gamble on Paul’s contract because it leaves them with zero flexibility and he isn’t good enough by himself to tip them over the edge. Paul puts them at the 3rd seed and maybe the conference finals as their ceiling in my opinion.


Comparing the clippers situation to the heat is completely different. Miami doesn't have 5 first round picks to trade. I get that Miami doesn't want paul in a perfect world but they are in a really difficult situation. Despite his horrid contract, Miami's alternatives to improve are very limited.

For Miami you would have to have Butler tamper with a star. That star has to be willing to want to come to Miami. Then the franchise of the tampered star has to be willing to take back a horrible package for their star. Other than Washington I see no other option for the heat. Paul is a bad contract but his game on the floor isn't like Carmelo Anthony.


At the very least, I'd drag this into the season if I was Miami. Aside from missing training camp, what do they lose in trying to extract assets if there aren't any other suitors? That way, they get to see how he's aged over the offseason. They see if he gets injured. They see if he throws a massive temper tantrum and tanks his value even more than it is right now. Is the OKC management willing to take him into the season, given that a significant injury leaves them on the hook for the whole contract?

I'd say, "Paul isn't enough by himself. I need assets for a future trade. I have no reason to make the trade right this moment, whereas OKC seems to want to hit the reset button right now and make a clean start without any drama. How strong a stomach do you have, Mr. Bennett?"

Then I'd wait to see what kind of chaos happens in the season and hope for the best.


If I was Miami I would wait a little while too. However I would also be honest with the current situation around Butler and admit that its not that great. He's not going to last forever. Do you really want to waste an entire season of having Butler? He's not exactly young and has had a few knee minor knee issues. He'll be 30 years old around the start of the season. The heat could punt on trying to get better this year and start over next year when the have more salary to spend to build around a 31 year old Butler. That's possible but far from ideal.

Also, it's not like they signed Jimmy by dumping scraps like they would do if they got CP. They had to give up an elite role player with Richardson. It's debatable how much better this Miami roster is compared to the one that missed the playoffs last year.

With proper load management Miami might be able to get a two more useful seasons out of CP3. Then they look to trade him as an expiring and take on another good player with a bloated contract. Is Chris Paul Miami's first preference? Probably not. Is there second preference realistic? If It's Kevin Love, maybe. Otherwise I would be inclined to again say probably not.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3662 » by Old Man Game » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:22 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
slick_watts wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:OKC only gave up a protected first (which they will now likely get back) and got a serviceable player in return for Melo. CP has more left in the tank than Melo did, he still has some value despite his warts.


okc gave up a pick and got back a cancer no other team wanted. atlanta was trying to get rid of dennis schroder for nothing and ate a huge chunk of his deal just to get him away.

we'll disagree on this. but there's no chance chris paul plays or is on the roster if he doesn't want to be and sam presti will end up taking whatever deal he can. ultimately, it amounts to getting out of westbrook's contract, which looked impossible just a week ago so it's a win. giving up two picks to get out of chris paul's deal would be incredible. i think you guys are valuing picks TOO much at this point.


Definitely agree on this point.

In all likelihood, the first couple clippers picks, the denver pick, and the last miami pick (given its protection) have very little value. They are either likely to be late firsts which can be bought for $3-4 million most years or are 6 to 10 years away with protection that pretty much guarantees it to be out of the lotto.

I also think those in the, "We'll just send him home and pay him $120 million" camp are underplaying how much that limits options for future moves. And how unlikely an organization is to pay $120 million for a complete non-contributer.


Way I look at it, we got 2 picks and 2 sets of swap rights for Russ. If we can keep even half of that we can call it a 'win' and move on with our lives. In our rebuild our own pick is what's likely going to count the most anyway.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3663 » by slick_watts » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Old Man Game wrote:Way I look at it, we got 2 picks and 2 sets of swap rights for Russ. If we can keep even half of that we can call it a 'win' and move on with our lives. In our rebuild our own pick is what's likely going to count the most anyway.


i agree. and if sam presti can dump chris paul for less it'll be an absolute steal. i'm just not seeing the scenario where cp3 stays against his will or he sits at home. even if you wait until dec. 15 who can trade for him? the knicks? the lakers won't even be able to unless they include danny green.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3664 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/


Its absolutely ridiculous. As a result of the harden trade, OKC may have missed out on a dynasty. Instead they had a good run of playoffs a decade with great support from the fans and tons of national media attention. Now the inevitable rebuild is happening and we are loaded with assets. People want to twist the narrative to the idea that we are the New York Knicks in a small market. It's just trolling. We aren't going any where and key arena still sucks.


Some guy on the 'what's Westbrook's legacy in OKC' thread over there literally said Russ wouldn't get a statue because our team might not even be here in FIVE years.

Johnny Bench literally has a statue in bricktown despite Oklahoma never having a MLB team at all let alone one he played for just because he was from Oklahoma (not even Oklahoma City specifically). Pretty sure Russ is getting that statue one way or another.

I've heard people say, 'are people really going to show up and support a losing team for a late evening midweek game in February'? Two things- 1- People in Oklahoma love their sports teams. 2- What else is there to do in OKC in February? Are people going to go hit the ski slopes 30 minutes west of OKC?
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3665 » by Old Man Game » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:31 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Its absolutely ridiculous. As a result of the harden trade, OKC may have missed out on a dynasty. Instead they had a good run of playoffs a decade with great support from the fans and tons of national media attention. Now the inevitable rebuild is happening and we are loaded with assets. People want to twist the narrative to the idea that we are the New York Knicks in a small market. It's just trolling. We aren't going any where and key arena still sucks.


Some guy on the 'what's Westbrook's legacy in OKC' thread over there literally said Russ wouldn't get a statue because our team might not even be here in FIVE years.

Johnny Bench literally has a statue in bricktown despite Oklahoma never having a MLB team at all let alone one he played for just because he was from Oklahoma (not even Oklahoma City specifically). Pretty sure Russ is getting that statue one way or another.

I've heard people say, 'are people really going to show up and support a losing team for a late evening midweek game in February'? Two things- 1- People in Oklahoma love their sports teams. 2- What else is there to do in OKC in February? Are people going to go hit the ski slopes 30 minutes west of OKC?


It would help if any of these people saying this **** had ever actually lived here or even visited. Had they they'd know, as you say, there's nothing else to do here. That's why Oklahoma generally is such a sports crazy state. From high school to college, now pro.

Realistically the price of oil has a LOT more to do with the continuing viability of this city to host this franchise than any specific player on the floor.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3666 » by Balkman32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:40 pm

slick_watts wrote:
Atomic Punk wrote:OKC only gave up a protected first (which they will now likely get back) and got a serviceable player in return for Melo. CP has more left in the tank than Melo did, he still has some value despite his warts.


okc gave up a pick and got back a cancer no other team wanted. atlanta was trying to get rid of dennis schroder for nothing and ate a huge chunk of his deal just to get him away.

we'll disagree on this. but there's no chance chris paul plays or is on the roster if he doesn't want to be and sam presti will end up taking whatever deal he can. ultimately, it amounts to getting out of westbrook's contract, which looked impossible just a week ago so it's a win. giving up two picks to get out of chris paul's deal would be incredible. i think you guys are valuing picks TOO much at this point.


Would you give Miami back one of their picks to take CP3? What if they wanted both of them back? For James Johnson, Waiters & Leonard...
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3667 » by spearsy23 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:46 pm

That 2023 pick is more valuable to Miami than any other team in the league, so we do have a bit of leverage there.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3668 » by jake_swivel » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Balkman32 wrote:Would you give Miami back one of their picks to take CP3? What if they wanted both of them back? For James Johnson, Waiters & Leonard...


He already said he'd give three picks if that was the only option.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3669 » by Balkman32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:52 pm

jake_swivel wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:http://tradenba.com/trades/S18lvcuZB

This deal would get all 3 team under the Lux tax. All are either over or very close to being over. It would also give Miami some extra $4 m in wiggle room against the hard cap. The Thunder would wave JR Smith. This deal would have to happen by Monday.

The Thunder getting Dragic and Dellavedova in this deal would be ideal for our point guard rotation next year.

They would then have Schröder and Waiters on the roster for a combined $27 million. They would be guys that they would rather move than bring to camp.


What's in it for Cleveland? Kelly Olynyk? I'd pay JR's 2 million guaranteed and take the savings, if I'm them. Worth more than Olynyk.


The idea here is that they have a ton of guys on expiring deals. Bringing back Olynyk in this deal would give the Cav’s big men of him, Love & Nance moving forward, which isn’t great but all of them are decent offensively. Which would mean one of them is always in the floor.

Plus the Cav’s still have $58 million in expiring deals, if they made this deal. Rather than the $83 m they have coming off the books if they stand pat. With the team the Cav’s have they ain’t attracting a free agent.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3670 » by Balkman32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:55 pm

spearsy23 wrote:That 2023 pick is more valuable to Miami than any other team in the league, so we do have a bit of leverage there.


I feel like the Miami picks are the best of the bunch. I think we need to rank our picks. Because giving up the 2020 Denver pick is nothing like giving the 2021 Miami pick.

Would you rather give Miami back one of their picks or swap CP3 for Wiggins?
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3671 » by Balkman32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:00 pm

Is this the order we would rank the Miami guys?
Winslow $13 3 years
Dragic $19 m 1 year
Leonard $11 m 1 year
Olynyk $12 m 2 years
Waiters $12 m 2 years
Johnson $15 m 2 years
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3672 » by jake_swivel » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:03 pm

Balkman32 wrote:Is this the order we would rank the Miami guys?
Winslow $13 3 years
Dragic $19 m 1 year
Leonard $11 m 1 year
Olynyk $12 m 2 years
Waiters $12 m 2 years
Johnson $15 m 2 years


I'd go Johnson over Waiters, but yeah. I wouldn't want Waiters around young guys. I hate how he plays.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3673 » by Dadouv47 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Old Man Game wrote:Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/


because we had 3 MVPs (2 here). Durant had several scoring titles here, Westbook as well. Westbrook averaged a triple double for 3 straight year (he broke almost every record). We got a 6th man of the year, a top 3 MVP candidate this year. 4 trips to the WCF, one Finals; 4 HOF in 10 years (not counting Melo).

Pelicans started their rebuild before us though but they were slowly declining over the years. I prefer going full rebuild the like we are doing right now but sure our team changed so much in 10 years that people are trying to enjoy our ''failures''.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3674 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:16 pm

Have you guys looked closely at this twitter account? The guy has some tweets reporting things that have broken several days after he tweeted. Example, Tyson Chandlers signing with houston.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3675 » by Dadouv47 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:19 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Have you guys looked closely at this twitter account? The guy has some tweets reporting things that have broken several days after he tweeted. Example, Tyson Chandlers signing with houston.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


I almost posted this guy twitter here when I read his stuff yesterday. Fair to say that he broke some news but he also was wrong about many things so...
Guess he could be right about the CP3 trade though (even more considering the fact that DIon and Olynyx aren't following Heat stuff anymore). They could be waiting for some garbage Miami player than can't be moved right now.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3676 » by Balkman32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:24 pm

http://tradenba.com/trades/Skkris_bH

Ibaka returns...

Toronto has always been liked to Wiggins. I don’t know if they still have interest in his services but I can see this making sense for all parties.

Wolves get off of $155 m of money they don’t like. They add a first ballot hall of famer, who the GM knows how he goes about his day to day. The other thing is taking on 3 years of CP3 gets them out of the Wiggins contract 2 years earlier so they can try to fix the team before KAt’s unrestricted FA.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3677 » by ThunderBolt » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:26 pm

Spoiler:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Have you guys looked closely at this twitter account? The guy has some tweets reporting things that have broken several days after he tweeted. Example, Tyson Chandlers signing with houston.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


I almost posted this guy twitter here when I read his stuff yesterday. Fair to say that he broke some news but he also was wrong about many things so...
Guess he could be right about the CP3 trade though (even more considering the fact that DIon and Olynyx aren't following Heat stuff anymore). They could be waiting for some garbage Miami player than can't be moved right now.


I didn't go back and read everything but it seems like there is more than just guessing going on. One can hope.
Read on Twitter
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3678 » by jake_swivel » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:27 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Have you guys looked closely at this twitter account? The guy has some tweets reporting things that have broken several days after he tweeted. Example, Tyson Chandlers signing with houston.


He definitely seems to have hit on some. Hope he's right.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3679 » by Old Man Game » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:28 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:Over on the GB the trolling about moving this team is really something else. I wonder, why is it no one talks about Memphis and New Orleans as losing their teams? Oh that's right, because trolls online confuse proportion of cool bars with media market size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/837czn/nba_media_market_size_rankings_2018/


because we had 3 MVPs (2 here). Durant had several scoring titles here, Westbook as well. Westbrook averaged a triple double for 3 straight year (he broke almost every record). We got a 6th man of the year, a top 3 MVP candidate this year. 4 trips to the WCF, one Finals; 4 HOF in 10 years (not counting Melo).

Pelicans started their rebuild before us though but they were slowly declining over the years. I prefer going full rebuild the like we are doing right now but sure our team changed so much in 10 years that people are trying to enjoy our ''failures''.


Naw, man. What I'm speaking of isn't a recent phenomenon. We've been dealing with stuff about 'Oklahoma City can't support a pro team' like this since before the team even moved here. It went mostly dark while we had our run. Now it's come back. It's like the vultures who just don't like Oklahoma City think they see an opportunity to strike.

I think the Pels as sparred it because they've had the Saints for decades so everyone just sort of takes it as a given they can support pro sports. Memphis I have no idea why they don't get this crap but I suppose it has something to with Memphis being thought of as a cool town with its own culture, blues music, barbecue whereas OKC is thought of as just flyover country.
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Re: Thunder Offseason Thread 

Post#3680 » by Old Man Game » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:30 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Spoiler:
Dadouv47 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:Have you guys looked closely at this twitter account? The guy has some tweets reporting things that have broken several days after he tweeted. Example, Tyson Chandlers signing with houston.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


I almost posted this guy twitter here when I read his stuff yesterday. Fair to say that he broke some news but he also was wrong about many things so...
Guess he could be right about the CP3 trade though (even more considering the fact that DIon and Olynyx aren't following Heat stuff anymore). They could be waiting for some garbage Miami player than can't be moved right now.


I didn't go back and read everything but it seems like there is more than just guessing going on. One can hope.
Read on Twitter


Profile even says "Ex-NBA agent." Which could mean nothing (fake) or could mean something if he's been on the money mostly.

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