Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[gambitx777]

Says Beal takes that extension now he's still movable on that extention or before it takes effect like him taking that does nothing to him being moved because he's worth that money . So if his plan is to give us a chance committing is a big possibility


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[Illmatic12]

Getting Masai and pursuing a Giannis moonshot would obviously be an option but I imagine that things would have to go really, really wrong in Milwaukee for any team being able to have realistic hopes of swaying him to join.

I don't think that's totally unrealistic. If we unloaded Wall for expirings in 2020 and still managed to play above .500 ball in 2020-21 on the strength of Beal, Bryant, Brown, Hachimura, and our 2020 lotto pick, we would definitely be an attractive destination.

Meanwhile, if Milwaukee falls short of the Finals the next two years because Middleton isn't a good enough second guy (and their cap situation gives them no flexibility to improve things), coming to DC might be really intriguing.

PG 2020 1st
SG Beal
SF Hachimura/Brown
PF Giannis
C Bryant

Come to think of it, this might actually be their plan. It would explain why they were so adverse to resigning Sato to a 3 year deal. Maybe the plan is to unload Wall's salary by 2021 and see if they can entice a max free agent to join Beal and the rookie contract guys.

I think plan A is to quietly feel out if they can move Wall before the start of 2021 FA.

If they cannot do so then go to Plan B - simply approach John about renegotiating his contract in 2022. Because of the good faith relationship between Wall and the Wizards, I believe he would be amenable to opting out of the final year of his supermax, with assurance that they’ll re-sign him longterm with Bird Rights. That’s the kind of thing you can only do when you’ve built up goodwill with your star players the way Ted has done.

Now, there are some intriguing FA options in 2022.. including in particular a high-profile nomadic superstar who may have tired of his current situation/enigmatic point guard, and could possibly be recruited to DC for the final stop in his career:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2022/

If John knows that ***** ***** is coming in 2022, I don’t see why he wouldn’t opt out and then after FA is over we bring him back on a friendly 4yrs/$50M “Mr. Wizards” lifetime deal . Can even throw an no-trade clause in there if he wants. I wouldn’t mind a 35yo Wall coming off the bench or providing locker room mentorship - he’s also spoken about wanting to get into coaching and there would be avenues for that.

Also don’t sleep on Leonsis earmarking a partial ownership % in Monumental for both John and Brad upon retirement - like he will certainly do for Ovechkin and Backstrom. In fact I would be very VERY surprised if that subject hasn’t already been broached. Remember Brad met with Ted at the trade deadline and he wouldn’t reveal what they spoke about, but afterwards it was noticeable that he had a renewed commitment to the franchise even to the point of saying things like “when I die I wanna be buried in a Wizards jersey” lol

Hours before Friday’s win over the Cleveland Cavaliers, Wizards star Bradley Beal met with owner Ted Leonsis.

There was a lot to discuss. Earlier in the week, the Wizards found out John Wall would miss the next 11-15 months with a ruptured Achilles. Washington then shifted its approach to Thursday’s trade deadline and traded Otto Porter and Markieff Morris to shed salary.


With Wall out for the foreseeable future and a key member of the team in Porter gone, Beal and Leonsis spent time discussing the future of the franchise. Just where do the Wizards go from here?

Beal left the meeting encouraged.

“It went really well,” Beal told The Washington Times. “I’d personally rather not talk about what we talked about, but it went really well. … It was pretty much just talking about what we’re going to do moving forward.”

[nate33]

I think plan A is to quietly feel out if they can move Wall before the start of 2021 FA.

If they cannot do so then go to Plan B - simply approach John about renegotiating his contract in 2022. Because of the good faith relationship between Wall and the Wizards, I believe he would be amenable to opting out of the final year of his supermax, with assurance that they’ll re-sign him longterm with Bird Rights. That’s the kind of thing you can only do when you’ve built up goodwill with your star players the way Ted has done.

Now, there are some intriguing FA options in 2022.. including in particular a high-profile nomadic superstar who may have tired of his current situation/enigmatic point guard, and could possibly be recruited to DC for the final stop in his career:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2022/

If John knows that ***** ***** is coming in 2022, I don’t see why he wouldn’t opt out and then after FA is over we bring him back on a friendly 4yrs/$50M “Mr. Wizards” lifetime deal . Can even throw an no-trade clause in there if he wants. I wouldn’t mind a 35yo Wall coming off the bench or providing locker room mentorship - he’s also spoken about wanting to get into coaching and there would be avenues for that.

Also don’t sleep on Leonsis earmarking a partial ownership % in Monumental for both John and Brad upon retirement - like he will certainly do for Ovechkin and Backstrom. In fact I would be very VERY surprised if that subject hasn’t already been broached. Remember Brad met with Ted at the trade deadline and he wouldn’t reveal what they spoke about, but afterwards it was noticeable that he had a renewed commitment to the franchise even to the point of saying things like “when I die I wanna be buried in a Wizards jersey” lol

I'm not seeing how it would be financially possible to have Beal on a max or supermax deal and Wall on a deal big enough for him to agree to opt out of his current deal, yet still have enough cap room to land a top tier free agent.

If the Wizards are going for a max caliber free agent to play with Beal, they're going to have to unload Wall.

[Illmatic12]

I think plan A is to quietly feel out if they can move Wall before the start of 2021 FA.

If they cannot do so then go to Plan B - simply approach John about renegotiating his contract in 2022. Because of the good faith relationship between Wall and the Wizards, I believe he would be amenable to opting out of the final year of his supermax, with assurance that they’ll re-sign him longterm with Bird Rights. That’s the kind of thing you can only do when you’ve built up goodwill with your star players the way Ted has done.

Now, there are some intriguing FA options in 2022.. including in particular a high-profile nomadic superstar who may have tired of his current situation/enigmatic point guard, and could possibly be recruited to DC for the final stop in his career:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2022/

If John knows that ***** ***** is coming in 2022, I don’t see why he wouldn’t opt out and then after FA is over we bring him back on a friendly 4yrs/$50M “Mr. Wizards” lifetime deal . Can even throw an no-trade clause in there if he wants. I wouldn’t mind a 35yo Wall coming off the bench or providing locker room mentorship - he’s also spoken about wanting to get into coaching and there would be avenues for that.

Also don’t sleep on Leonsis earmarking a partial ownership % in Monumental for both John and Brad upon retirement - like he will certainly do for Ovechkin and Backstrom. In fact I would be very VERY surprised if that subject hasn’t already been broached. Remember Brad met with Ted at the trade deadline and he wouldn’t reveal what they spoke about, but afterwards it was noticeable that he had a renewed commitment to the franchise even to the point of saying things like “when I die I wanna be buried in a Wizards jersey” lol

I'm not seeing how it would be financially possible to have Beal on a max or supermax deal and Wall on a deal big enough for him to agree to opt out of his current deal, yet still have enough cap room to land a top tier free agent.

If the Wizards are going for a max caliber free agent to play with Beal, they're going to have to unload Wall.

What did we see this offseason? Sign-and-trades. We just saw Miami enter FA with the highest payroll in the league and they were able to add a max player , despite being capped out.

If there’s a player who has interest in coming here there WILL be a way to make it happen, believe that.

[Dat2U]

Ok bold moves time just for giggles or groans lol.

Chris Paul & Danilo Gallinari

For

John Wall, Ian Mahinmi; Moritz Wagner & a 2020 unprotected first.

Sign Iman Shumpert & Kyle O'Quinn.

Cut McRae, Jones, & Robinson. Sign Robinson to a two-way.

New roster:

G Paul ... I. Smith ... I. Thomas ... J. Robinson (TW)
G Beal ... T. Brown Jr ... Mathews (TW)
F Gallinari ... Shumpert ... Bonga
F Bertans ... Hachimura ... Miles ... Schofield
C Bryant ... O'Quinn

How many wins? How far in the playoffs?

[nate33]

Ok bold moves time just for giggles or groans lol.

Chris Paul & Danilo Gallinari

For

John Wall, Ian Mahinmi; Moritz Wagner & a 2020 unprotected first.

Sign Iman Shumpert & Kyle O'Quinn.

Cut McRae, Jones, & Robinson. Sign Robinson to a two-way.

New roster:

G Paul ... I. Smith ... I. Thomas ... J. Robinson (TW)
G Beal ... T. Brown Jr ... Mathews (TW)
F Gallinari ... Shumpert ... Bonga
F Bertans ... Hachimura ... Miles ... Schofield
C Bryant ... O'Quinn

How many wins? How far in the playoffs?

That would get them into the Boston/Toronto/Indiana tier of teams this year, but the long term is bad. Gallo would depart or would require a cap crippling contract to retain. Paul gets older and worse the next two seasons. We don't add young talent in 2020.

In 2021, we're still in the same position we are now with the team's core being Beal, Bryant, Brown and Hachimura; only instead of also having Wall and a 2020 lotto pick, we'd have a washed up Chris Paul.

[Dat2U]

Ok bold moves time just for giggles or groans lol.

Chris Paul & Danilo Gallinari

For

John Wall, Ian Mahinmi; Moritz Wagner & a 2020 unprotected first.

Sign Iman Shumpert & Kyle O'Quinn.

Cut McRae, Jones, & Robinson. Sign Robinson to a two-way.

New roster:

G Paul ... I. Smith ... I. Thomas ... J. Robinson (TW)
G Beal ... T. Brown Jr ... Mathews (TW)
F Gallinari ... Shumpert ... Bonga
F Bertans ... Hachimura ... Miles ... Schofield
C Bryant ... O'Quinn

How many wins? How far in the playoffs?

That would get them into the Boston/Toronto/Indiana tier of teams this year, but the long term is bad. Gallo would depart or would require a cap crippling contract to retain. Paul gets older and worse the next two seasons. We don't add young talent in 2020.

In 2021, we're still in the same position we are now with the team's core being Beal, Bryant, Brown and Hachimura; only instead of also having Wall and a 2020 lotto pick, we'd have a washed up Chris Paul.

The on/off splts with Paul showed he was his old self without Harden on the floor last season. If we get that version of Paul, that's better than anything we've ever gotten from Wall over the course of a season. We could potentially get 2 good seasons out of him and likely one bad one.

Then Gallinari is a really skilled player, was the Clips #1 option last year in their starting lineup. He can play the 3 or slide to the 4. Alongside Beal & Paul, Gallinari would be a superb complimentary piece. Offensively that trio can be one of the best in the league.

The key would be managing Paul's minutes to keep him relatively healthy and there would be tough questions to answer about Danilo after this season but in a weakened East and with Brooklyn a year away with Durant, there is an opportunity for some team like Boston, Indiana or ____ to get to the Conference Finals.

[Illuminaire]

All groans from me, Dat.

That's the fast track to capped out mediocrity.

I think that's a 48 win team with a 100% healthy Paul and Dano (no guarantee there!), and probably a second round out. Then it's cap hell. Both fans and the FO can aspire to greater things than this.

[prime1time]

What do people think about Denzel Valentine? I liked him coming out of Michigan State. Also, he can knock down 3's, has a 6'10 wingspan and has solid dribbling skills. I feel like Chicago has a gluttony of guards right now. Kris Dunn, Tomas, Denzel, Shaq Harrison, Coby White and Zach Lavine.

[queridiculo]

All groans from me, Dat.

That's the fast track to capped out mediocrity.

I think that's a 48 win team with a 100% healthy Paul and Dano (no guarantee there!), and probably a second round out. Then it's cap hell. Both fans and the FO can aspire to greater things than this.

48 wins is a huge stretch, who is going to play pointguard for the quarter of the season Paul is invariably going to miss?

Even if we ignore that Paul has missed a seasons worth of games over the past 4 years, the drop off at Paul's age can often happen quickly and without any sort warning.

Betting on Paul to be productive over the length of his remaining contract is bad bad business.

[LyricalRico]

Ok bold moves time just for giggles or groans lol.

Chris Paul & Danilo Gallinari

For

John Wall, Ian Mahinmi; Moritz Wagner & a 2020 unprotected first.

Sign Iman Shumpert & Kyle O'Quinn.

Cut McRae, Jones, & Robinson. Sign Robinson to a two-way.

New roster:

G Paul ... I. Smith ... I. Thomas ... J. Robinson (TW)
G Beal ... T. Brown Jr ... Mathews (TW)
F Gallinari ... Shumpert ... Bonga
F Bertans ... Hachimura ... Miles ... Schofield
C Bryant ... O'Quinn

How many wins? How far in the playoffs?

Sure, I'd probably do that. Wall might end up having more longterm value, then again he might not depending on how he comes back from injury. If we're able to get two starters for a guy with an uncertain future, there's definitely an argument for doing that. Paul has the injury concern, but with Ish and IT on board we can manage his minutes. I'd feel better about it if Gallo had an extra year on his deal, but I think I'd still do it.

[Ruzious]

Ok bold moves time just for giggles or groans lol.

Chris Paul & Danilo Gallinari

For

John Wall, Ian Mahinmi; Moritz Wagner & a 2020 unprotected first.

Sign Iman Shumpert & Kyle O'Quinn.

Cut McRae, Jones, & Robinson. Sign Robinson to a two-way.

New roster:

G Paul ... I. Smith ... I. Thomas ... J. Robinson (TW)
G Beal ... T. Brown Jr ... Mathews (TW)
F Gallinari ... Shumpert ... Bonga
F Bertans ... Hachimura ... Miles ... Schofield
C Bryant ... O'Quinn

How many wins? How far in the playoffs?

That would get them into the Boston/Toronto/Indiana tier of teams this year, but the long term is bad. Gallo would depart or would require a cap crippling contract to retain. Paul gets older and worse the next two seasons. We don't add young talent in 2020.

In 2021, we're still in the same position we are now with the team's core being Beal, Bryant, Brown and Hachimura; only instead of also having Wall and a 2020 lotto pick, we'd have a washed up Chris Paul.

The on/off splts with Paul showed he was his old self without Harden on the floor last season. If we get that version of Paul, that's better than anything we've ever gotten from Wall over the course of a season. We could potentially get 2 good seasons out of him and likely one bad one.

Then Gallinari is a really skilled player, was the Clips #1 option last year in their starting lineup. He can play the 3 or slide to the 4. Alongside Beal & Paul, Gallinari would be a superb complimentary piece. Offensively that trio can be one of the best in the league.

The key would be managing Paul's minutes to keep him relatively healthy and there would be tough questions to answer about Danilo after this season but in a weakened East and with Brooklyn a year away with Durant, there is an opportunity for some team like Boston, Indiana or ____ to get to the Conference Finals.

I don't know if I'd do that trade, but people have really exaggerated the death of Chris Paul's career. He's lost a step from being one of the top handful of PG's to ever play, but he's still damn good. I just don't think our front court is good enough yet to carry that team to the EC finals.

[DCZards]

That would get them into the Boston/Toronto/Indiana tier of teams this year, but the long term is bad. Gallo would depart or would require a cap crippling contract to retain. Paul gets older and worse the next two seasons. We don't add young talent in 2020.

In 2021, we're still in the same position we are now with the team's core being Beal, Bryant, Brown and Hachimura; only instead of also having Wall and a 2020 lotto pick, we'd have a washed up Chris Paul.

The on/off splts with Paul showed he was his old self without Harden on the floor last season. If we get that version of Paul, that's better than anything we've ever gotten from Wall over the course of a season. We could potentially get 2 good seasons out of him and likely one bad one.

Then Gallinari is a really skilled player, was the Clips #1 option last year in their starting lineup. He can play the 3 or slide to the 4. Alongside Beal & Paul, Gallinari would be a superb complimentary piece. Offensively that trio can be one of the best in the league.

The key would be managing Paul's minutes to keep him relatively healthy and there would be tough questions to answer about Danilo after this season but in a weakened East and with Brooklyn a year away with Durant, there is an opportunity for some team like Boston, Indiana or ____ to get to the Conference Finals.

I don't know if I'd do that trade, but people have really exaggerated the death of Chris Paul's career. He's lost a step from being one of the top handful of PG's to ever play, but he's still damn good. I just don't think our front court is good enough yet to carry that team to the EC finals.

Agree regarding CP. He's still has at least a couple of good years left in him. Playing with Harden and in an offense where his skills as a playmaker and midrange shooter were underutilized has been more of a problem than any decline in CP's abilities.

I don't like the Gallinari part of the trade. Dude is always hurt. He's averaged less than 60 games a season the last few years.

I also don't think it's a good idea for a rebuilding team like the Zards to give up an unprotected first rounder.

[nate33]

I don't know if I'd do that trade, but people have really exaggerated the death of Chris Paul's career. He's lost a step from being one of the top handful of PG's to ever play, but he's still damn good. I just don't think our front court is good enough yet to carry that team to the EC finals.

Paul can't stay healthy anymore. His hamstrings are shot. He missed a third of each of the last two seasons, and I expect that trend to continue.

[payitforward]

Ruz is right. Not only is Chris Paul one of the top handful (maybe one of the top 2-3) PGs ever to play the game, but even last year -- his worst since his 2d year in the league -- he was better than John Wall has ever been. That's not a ding on John Wall; it's a tribute to how incredible Chris Paul is.

Old as he is, of course you would trade him straight up for Wall. But the biggest reason would be b/c his contract is one season shorter than John's. IOW, we'd gain flexibility in rebuilding our team. Doing anything that major for a short-term goal doesn't seem to make a whole bunch of sense.

[Illuminaire]

All groans from me, Dat.

That's the fast track to capped out mediocrity.

I think that's a 48 win team with a 100% healthy Paul and Dano (no guarantee there!), and probably a second round out. Then it's cap hell. Both fans and the FO can aspire to greater things than this.

48 wins is a huge stretch, who is going to play pointguard for the quarter of the season Paul is invariably going to miss?

Even if we ignore that Paul has missed a seasons worth of games over the past 4 years, the drop off at Paul's age can often happen quickly and without any sort warning.

Betting on Paul to be productive over the length of his remaining contract is bad bad business.

I mean, we are in agreement, haha. I specifically said 48 wins with a 100% healthy Paul and Dano to show that in even the most positive possible scenario, it's a bad idea.

You are completely correct to say Paul won't be healthy. Dano has a fun injury history too. What you said is very much the realistic case. My argument was basically "if even the best case sucks..." and you have happily provided the dot dot dot.

[payitforward]

OTOH, nate & Zards are also right. We need to keep our eyes on the prize: rebuild around Brad until/unless that proves un-doable.

[nate33]

This came up in a Trade Board discussion. What do you guys think?

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway Jr., 2020 2nd (via GSW), 2021 2nd (DAL)
Washington trades: Ian Mahinmi, Ish Smith

THJ has 2 years left on his deal at $18.1M and $19M respectively. It saves $3.4M this year but costs $13M next year. The Wizards end up with two more 2nd round picks, including one in the 2021 "double draft". We lose a lot of flexibility next summer, but there aren't a lot of good free agents on the market anyway. We maintain our 2021 flexibility.

In the meantime, we get a significant upgrade for our bench. THJ can be a credible primary scorer for the 2nd unit and he can help reduce the wear and tear on Beal. Beal can also play some minutes at SF which will allow Troy Brown to play some PG. We clear up some roster space because it's a 2 for 1 that also allows us to cut McRae. That gives us room to sign Christian Wood.

PG Thomas/Robinson
SG Beal/Hardaway
SF Brown/Miles
PF Bertans/Hachimura
C Bryant/Wood
End of bench: Wagner, Schofield, Bonga, Wall, Jones

We couldn't do the trade until December 15th, so we would technically have to cut McRae and Jones to sign Woods right now. Or maybe the league gives us an extra roster spot because of Wall and we only have to cut Jones for now. On December 15th, we make the 2 for 1 trade and cut McRae, freeing up 2 roster spots. Also, with the 2019 salary savings, it drops our payroll down to $125.0M, giving us $7M in luxtax breathing room. If we get an injury exception for Wall, we would have the luxtax room to buy another 2nd round pick.

[Illmatic12]

Idk how I feel about sitting out of FA for two consecutive years waiting for 2021. Who would we even be targeting in 2021 that would make sense to come here?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2021/

Kawhi/Paul George/Lebron ain't walking through that door. Gobert will get supermaxed in Utah. CJ and Derozan don't make sense if we're keeping Beal, and everyone else is too old/not intriguing. The only interesting UFA that fits the core our team would be Kelly Oubre.

Imo we need to plan on dipping into our capspace next offseason to improve the team. There aren't a lot of elite FAs next summer but there will be players who can help us, and our chances of getting a bargain will be good considering it'll be a buyer's market. We're projected to have just under $20M in cap room in 2020

Read on Twitter

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/2020-nba-free-agents.html

Looking through this ^ list, there are probably more good players in our price range in 2020 than in 2021, and particularly at the wing/forward spots which is where we need help.

Unrestricted FAs - Jerami Grant, Joe Harris, Gallinari, Bertans (can retain him w/ bird rights), Millsap, Ibaka.

Restricted FAs - I would aggressively pursue Taurean Prince with a 4/$70M offer sheet. Maybe the memory of him killing Otto in the playoffs his rookie year has burned in my mind, but I always liked Prince. He's 26yo and can be locked in as our longterm SF . Brooklyn will be getting Durant back in 2020 but between Levert, Harris, Prince they have three young wings needing to get paid - they've gotta be willing to come off of at least one of those guys for the right price.

[Mojo Amok]

Jerami Grant would be an interesting 2020 target for us if we're willing to forgo the moonshot of the 2021 class.

The main questions are 'could he and Rui work?' and then 'how good of a three point shooter is he really?'

I don't see either of Grant or Rui being natural fits guarding threes, but it might be possible - Grant strikes me as being the one more capable of roaming on the wing. But, I don't know...I'd have to look closer. It's kinda like starting Harkless and Aminu from a body type standpoint, so there is at least some precedent (or like Gordon and Issac).

And then, that down three point shooting year in 2018 was really bad and he's only had one year shooting long balls at volume. The latter question will presumably be answered to an extent this year, but I wouldn't pencil him in as a proper sniper based on last year alone.

That said, I would consider him an actual winning player with a proven track record of fitting in quite nicely around high usage guys. I watched that Portland series this year rather closely and he was pretty good there too.

Gallinari scares me with his durability and Joe Harris was so bad in the playoffs that I don't even want to talk about it.

Taurean Prince is a good call and I also recall that playoff performance. But, it seems that the Nets need to match and probably have the pocket to go deep into the tax for a few years.

The main thing in actually making a decision would be having some intel through f̶l̶a̶g̶r̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶l̶l̶u̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ entirely appropriate backchannel sources about our chances with specific 2021 star players. If it doesn't look good the 2020 market could potentially be better than advertised for a few teams if their aren't too many suitors (and there probably won't be as people save for the next class).