Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt. 10: Free Agency is in Free Flow

[Edug27]

Plus there's the other end of the court.

Must of missed when Jaylen developed into a great defender.

Doesn't need to be great to be better than Beal.

There’s a wider gap before Beal and Jaylen offensively than there is defensively.

[Edug27]

Beal won't be able to put up those numbers while playing alongside Kemba, Tatum, Hayward (assuming deal is Smart/Brown/fillers/picks). Diminishing returns on a team w/ more offensive weapons vs. on a bottom-feeding team like the Weezards.

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

It’s a moot point bc I don’t think we can beat other teams deals with brown as the centerpiece anyways and I doubt the wizards are going to want to extend him.

Wiz are rebuilding. Whos beating Brown and picks?

[djFan71]

Must of missed when Jaylen developed into a great defender.

Doesn't need to be great to be better than Beal.

There’s a wider gap before Beal and Jaylen offensively than there is defensively.

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

[MagicBagley18]

Beal won't be able to put up those numbers while playing alongside Kemba, Tatum, Hayward (assuming deal is Smart/Brown/fillers/picks). Diminishing returns on a team w/ more offensive weapons vs. on a bottom-feeding team like the Weezards.

Def agree he won’t put up those numbers here if he was traded here (he won’t be) but he wouldn’t need to. he would fit in pretty damn well next to those guys IMO. he can can come off screens and catch and shoot from kemba or Hayward. He can also play as a ball handler like Hayward and kemba can so you could stagger him or kemba or Hayward and always have an elite scorer on the court in a playmaking role.

I guess what it is for me I’d rather pay Beal that money or someone established than gamble on brown and hoping he becomes deserving of the money. I’m not comfortable paying brown 29 million and hoping and again I have to see him this year and maybe I’ll be the **** we can all laugh at and he plays great- my guess is he plays well but still not enough to be convinced he’s worth 30 million

But it's not Brown-for-Beal straight up. If Brown was already on his next contract and you don't have to trade much else to get Beal, then sure. But you likely lose a 1st-team all defender and a prime pick plus more in the deal on top of Brown. Jaylen projects to be a better two-way player (worse on offense but more complete overall) than Beal too, who has been mediocre at best on the defensive end while being under defensive-minded coaches. Brown on low usage can approximate what Beal can bring on similar usage.

One PRO for Beal is if you love the idea of pairing Beal + Tatum long-term as your 2/3. Tatum is RFA in 2021 so it might be easier to re-sign Beal with his little brother in place until 2024/25. I'm not sure about our cap situation by 2021, so if you can trade for Beal now without giving up much, maybe you do that.

Right and I HATE losing smart, more so than Jaylen trust me but your getting a top 20 guy just entering his prime who will get better who was damn close to all nba last season.

Smart is the cobra, I love the kid but you can find defensive players to replicate some of what he does or his skill set. They won’t bring you his heart or his fight like he always does but his skill set is out there. I don’t think Jaylen projects better than Beal at all. Yes on defense but not close on offense.

I don’t think he will ever be able to create offense like Beal and I think Stevens has shown even back to his butler says he can scheme a really good defense and I particularly worry about paying Jaylen his money for him to be a really good 3 & d guy. Beal not only gets along with Tatum and would be a great team as for him but he’s also friendly with Hayward.

I just don’t see any major stars shaking loose in the next 12 month and if they do they will most likely cost us Tatum and that’s a step backwards as the plan is to pair Tatum with other great players.

[RickyDizzle]

I would Love Manimal (Kenneth Faried).

Wonder why he's still unsigned?

David Lee disease. Really productive player but you can't win games with him on the floor. I am a fan of the player and I don't know why it doesn't work but you would be better off with a less productive player who can defend his position in the league now. Even last year when he was effective for HOU it was as a small ball C who gets killed defensively but rebounds and scores a little. I think most teams figure they can just get a guy who can do that and defend a little.

My guess is he can just go back to HOU for short money so he is holding out for a legit pay check.

I like Faried on a 2 year minimum. As a veteran with 8 years of experience his annual salary would be 2.3 million annually. Noah or Vince Carter would make 2.5 million annualy. Bigger contracts for trade but still count as a minimum on our cap. Id like to sign one of those guys for a veteran presence and future trade. Better than Waters or Fall at 900k.

Ditch struss. Sign Tacko to 2-way. The veteran minimum signing can also come last in the order of transactions, I think.

[Edug27]

Doesn't need to be great to be better than Beal.

There’s a wider gap before Beal and Jaylen offensively than there is defensively.

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

[zoyathedestroya]

What you call optimistic, I call crazy.

Beal won't be able to put up those numbers while playing alongside Kemba, Tatum, Hayward (assuming deal is Smart/Brown/fillers/picks). Diminishing returns on a team w/ more offensive weapons vs. on a bottom-feeding team like the Weezards.

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

Best playoff run of Beal at age 23 vs. Best playoff run of Brown at age 21



Not that far off on offensive production (scoring and efficiency). Brown better on defense.

I think main difference is Beal can be a 1B on a conference finalist. Brown might be third banana at best due to his skill limitations (which I'm unsure how much he'll improve on).

[MagicBagley18]

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

It’s a moot point bc I don’t think we can beat other teams deals with brown as the centerpiece anyways and I doubt the wizards are going to want to extend him.

Wiz are rebuilding. Whos beating Brown and picks?

Pelicans have a ton of picks and young players....okc has the picks but not players, Denver, Brooklyn possibly.

the wizards will do something like trade him to Denver for Gary Harris and Paul millsap and say we got a great young player and Paul millsap to keep us in the playoff hunt. They are morons they opposite of what they should.

[MagicBagley18]

Doesn't need to be great to be better than Beal.

There’s a wider gap before Beal and Jaylen offensively than there is defensively.

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

But aren’t you really pairing Beal with kemba/Hayward/Tatum ?....

[Edug27]

Beal won't be able to put up those numbers while playing alongside Kemba, Tatum, Hayward (assuming deal is Smart/Brown/fillers/picks). Diminishing returns on a team w/ more offensive weapons vs. on a bottom-feeding team like the Weezards.

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

Best playoff run of Beal at age 23 vs. Best playoff run of Brown at age 21



Not that far off on offensive production. Brown better on defense.

I think main difference is Beal can be a 1B on a conference finalist. Brown might be third banana at best due to his skill limitations (which I'm unsure how much he'll improve on).

It comes down to whether you think 2018 playoff Brown is the player Jaylen can consistently be going forward. Just like we all debated with Rozier. Because Beal is a 20 pt scorer on this team next season... even with Kemba and Tatum eating.

[Celtics_Champs]

I love Beal.

Washington isn’t trading him to us.

[djFan71]

There’s a wider gap before Beal and Jaylen offensively than there is defensively.

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

Yep. See my post above. Without Kemba, and sending ballast & Jaylen, I'm all onboard. As is, I just don't see a Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter team stopping too many people.

[MagicBagley18]

Beal won't be able to put up those numbers while playing alongside Kemba, Tatum, Hayward (assuming deal is Smart/Brown/fillers/picks). Diminishing returns on a team w/ more offensive weapons vs. on a bottom-feeding team like the Weezards.

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

Best playoff run of Beal at age 23 vs. Best playoff run of Brown at age 21



Not that far off on offensive production (scoring and efficiency). Brown better on defense.

I think main difference is Beal can be a 1B on a conference finalist. Brown might be third banana at best due to his skill limitations (which I'm unsure how much he'll improve on).

That’s the thing...you brought it up Browns skill limitations- 30 million for a 3rd banana? scares the hell out of me. I know the cap raises etc but still if brown doesn’t make that leap the extension could hurt us bad.

In your mind with the nba as it is today and the east is kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum a championship core?

[MagicBagley18]

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

Yep. See my post above. Without Kemba, and sending ballast & Jaylen, I'm all onboard. As is, I just don't see a Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter team stopping too many people.

This season I agree, we lack the depth to win it all but given another offseason to add some depth and a real big man is that not the best team in the east? Plus you always have Tatum if a huge fish becomes available (assuming we would ever wanna trade him) and Haywards expiring

[MagicBagley18]

I love Beal.

Washington isn’t trading him to us.

I agree. I do think though that with 2 years remaining his agent will use his leverage on certain teams and I do think we would be on his list given his relationship with Tatum and bartelstein’s with ainge.

I suspect tho bartelstein will push hard for Miami and 2 years is a good window for a team to take a chance on him, however it’s really 1 year of true value because of he goes somewhere he doesn’t like then he’ll just leave following the 2nd season and if that team tries to trade him he will kill his value saying he won’t re-sign certain places

[Edug27]

It’s a moot point bc I don’t think we can beat other teams deals with brown as the centerpiece anyways and I doubt the wizards are going to want to extend him.

Wiz are rebuilding. Whos beating Brown and picks?

Pelicans have a ton of picks and young players....okc has the picks but not players, Denver, Brooklyn possibly.

the wizards will do something like trade him to Denver for Gary Harris and Paul millsap and say we got a great young player and Paul millsap to keep us in the playoff hunt. They are morons they opposite of what they should.

Agree with the Denver part. Lol. But Boston also has picks. I don’t see the Pelicans being open to moving those post-Lebron Laker picks.

[Edug27]

Sure. he's obviously the better player. But not necessarily the better fit when you have to send out Jaylen, Smart and picks. To pair Beal with Kemba.

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

Yep. See my post above. Without Kemba, and sending ballast & Jaylen, I'm all onboard. As is, I just don't see a Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter team stopping too many people.

Hayward and Tatum are better defenders than you give them credit for.. and Jaylen isn’t as good a defender as you’re giving him credit for here.

[zoyathedestroya]

A couple things...

1. Beal averaged 23 points on a team with a healthy John Wall that was a game away from the ECF. (Thank you IT).

2. Beal doesn’t need to average that here. But at the end of the day, we all know Beal is capable of giving you 25, 5 and 5 on any given night. He is a player who can shoulder the load when needed. On any given night.... not just playoff games.. or national TV games.. or games against other good young players... ANY. GIVEN. NIGHT.

Best playoff run of Beal at age 23 vs. Best playoff run of Brown at age 21



Not that far off on offensive production (scoring and efficiency). Brown better on defense.

I think main difference is Beal can be a 1B on a conference finalist. Brown might be third banana at best due to his skill limitations (which I'm unsure how much he'll improve on).

That’s the thing...you brought it up Browns skill limitations- 30 million for a 3rd banana? scares the hell out of me. I know the cap raises etc but still if brown doesn’t make that leap the extension could hurt us bad.

In your mind with the nba as it is today and the east is kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum a championship core?

Nope. That core is soft af. A lot of finesse, smoothness, and shooting. Not a lot of toughness and physicality. But then again, I'm more defensive-oriented than most. Take Draymond out of the healthy Warriors, I think they're vulnerable. No Kawhi, no Raps title. Lebron loafs on D, Cavs weren't the same team. Etc, etc.

[djFan71]

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

Yep. See my post above. Without Kemba, and sending ballast & Jaylen, I'm all onboard. As is, I just don't see a Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter team stopping too many people.

This season I agree, we lack the depth to win it all but given another offseason to add some depth and a real big man is that not the best team in the east? Plus you always have Tatum if a huge fish becomes available (assuming we would ever wanna trade him) and Haywards expiring

It makes some sense, and could work. I just don't see the real big man that takes it over the top being available. Maybe if you send Tatum, but then you're Kemba/Beal/Hayward/X/Y and you better win fairly quickly.

OK, I should probably do some work now... I think we know each other's positions at this point.

[djFan71]

Agree to disagree. I feel Beal is a much better fit with the team than Jaylen. I’m also not the biggest Smart fan, so there’s that as well.

Yep. See my post above. Without Kemba, and sending ballast & Jaylen, I'm all onboard. As is, I just don't see a Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward/Kanter team stopping too many people.

Hayward and Tatum are better defenders than you give them credit for.. and Jaylen isn’t as good a defender as you’re giving him credit for here.

They're good, but they're not fixing Kemba/Beal/Kanter. Neither is Jaylen.