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Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE)

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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1161 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:11 pm

midranger wrote:Honest question, why do people pay attention to/follow Eric Nehm?



Not really an honest question since he's clearly one of two paid beat writers for the Bucks.

The Giannis interview he got after the season was one of the best athlete interviews I've ever read.

I don't think any other local or national media member would've gotten what he got out of him.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1162 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:38 pm

The Nehm/LOB disdain baffles me. I get that some people still see any type of positive Bucks coverage as being a "homer" but the amount of insight and info they provide amongst local sources is second to none.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1163 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:50 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The Nehm/LOB disdain baffles me. I get that some people still see any type of positive Bucks coverage as being a "homer" but the amount of insight and info they provide amongst local sources is second to none.

Overall, they are net positive and love listening to their game recaps. I think the disdain is there is a little bit of arrogance and Nehm playing buddy journalism. They are basically a podcast version of an above average poster here with great analyst, they provide observation "insight" but don't really provide insight that can't be obtained by watching the game. They don't break news on transactions and don't say anything negative that happens in the locker room. He's a great listen but a glorified blogger IMO. Add in the arrogance of downplaying other ideas, and I can see why people don't like him.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1164 » by Ron Swanson » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:11 pm

If any "glorified blogger" could do it then I'd gladly welcome other outlets for insightful Bucks coverage, statistical analysis, and interviews.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1165 » by emunney » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:28 pm

I like Nehm because he more frequently talks/writes about the details of the game itself. I understand why he's not getting like dirt or rumors -- I just wish he or Velasquez were able to get details on the nuts and bolts stuff that the team typically doesn't release but which magically gets out. Like for instance, what **** draft picks we got. Wouldn't require burning any bridges with the team to get that info.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1166 » by Matches Malone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:30 pm

The disdain doesn't come from the content they provide at all. It's purely from a personality standpoint. There is arrogance there (whether deserved or not) and it's unbecoming imo.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1167 » by crkone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:34 pm

Matches Malone wrote:The disdain doesn't come from the content they provide at all. It's purely from a personality standpoint. There is arrogance there (whether deserved or not) and it's unbecoming imo.


I mean besides the whole "Velasquez confirmed it, must be real" sarcastic thing people have been posting about every damn move lately.

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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1168 » by emunney » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:34 pm

Per RealGM, here's what we got:

2020 first round draft pick from Indiana
Indiana's 1st round pick to Milwaukee protected for selections 1-14 in 2020, 1-14 in 2021, 1-14 in 2022, 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026 [Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/6/2019]

2021 second round draft pick from Indiana
One year after Indiana conveys a 2nd round pick to Brooklyn, Indiana will convey its 2nd round pick to Milwaukee (this pick will therefore convey in 2021, 2022, 2023 or 2024) [Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/6/2019] (emunney's note: the pick to Brooklyn is protected 45-60 for the next three years, so this could very well be a 2024 pick - Pacers have made the playoffs 8 of the last 9 years)

2025 second round draft pick from Indiana
Indiana's 2025 2nd round pick to Milwaukee [Indiana-Milwaukee, 7/6/2019]
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1169 » by crkone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:35 pm

Those future 2nds are nice

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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1170 » by emunney » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:38 pm

I like that there's no protection on them in the years they convey to us, and I like that the 1st is probably going to be a pick in the teens this year.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1171 » by Chuck Diesel » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:44 pm

I understand both perspectives of the Nehm conversation. I think he’s objectively improved coverage and the work he’s put into LOB with Frank is bar none the best/most thorough Bucks media available. He has a good sense of the game, will ask difficult tactical/rotational questions of the coach and has clearly developed solid relationships with the players that allow for some honest quotes.

Aesthetically, his tone and demeanor have completely turned me off at times. You can’t be snarky, high minded and dismissive as a professional writer when your co host has to awkwardly correct your basic grammar-“Giannis played good. Brogdon played good.” That might seem petty, but I think it’s indicative of his thinking and behaving like he’s much smarter than he actually is.

I also admittedly get irrationally annoyed at being lumped in/dismissed/generalized with the lowest common denominator of people he interacts with. Whenever Nehm does that “dumb Bucks fan” voice I immediately turn off the podcast. It’s a straw-man tactic that his buddies have seemed to emulate. The m.o seems to be “lets overreact to the most extreme voices/project overly emotional responses from dumb/crazy Bucks fans in order to prop ourselves up/gain favor/avoid the tougher organizational questions.”
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1172 » by emunney » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:01 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:I understand both perspectives of the Nehm conversation. I think he’s objectively improved coverage and the work he’s put into LOB with Frank is bar none the best/most thorough Bucks media available. He has a good sense of the game, will ask difficult tactical/rotational questions of the coach and has clearly developed solid relationships with the players that allow for some honest quotes.

Aesthetically, his tone and demeanor have completely turned me off at times. You can’t be snarky, high minded and dismissive as a professional writer when your co host has to awkwardly correct your saying “Giannis played good. Brogdon played good...” The grammar stuff might seem petty, but I think it’s indicative of his thinking and behaving like he’s much smarter than he actually is.

I also admittedly get irrationally annoyed at being lumped in/dismissed/generalized with the lowest common denominator of people he interacts with. Whenever Nehm does that “dumb Bucks fan” voice I immediately turn off the podcast. It’s a straw-man tactic that his buddies have seemed to emulate. The m.o seems to be “lets overreact to the most extreme voices/project overly emotional responses from dumb/crazy Bucks fans in order to prop ourselves up/gain favor/avoid the tougher organizational questions.


I absolutely agree with that last point of how he will magnify the worst possible, for example, anti-Khris Middleton take as a sign that his position must be correct. It's a wormy political tactic and he might not even be totally aware he's doing it, but it sucks. Generally speaking I don't think he has a great grasp of the game-behind-the-game, which is what we talk about most of the time here, and the disconnect there can be frustrating. Frank fills in those gaps on LOB, but if they agree on something between their perspectives there's no room for discussion. Frank is absolutely a bird-in-the-hand guy, which is valid, and I also think it makes sense to be more risk/change averse when you have a great team, but it's not the only way to go, and a secure team with a good FO can bounce back from damn near anything. They know that they do not have to keep players that keep them from keeping other players. We can watch how quickly Toronto bounces back from losing Kawhi has an example of what it means to a franchise to be secure in your ability to consistently make good calls.

I don't think either of them are Bucks-can-do-no-wrong guys, though, which I think they sometimes get tagged as.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1173 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:09 pm

emunney wrote:
I don't think either of them are Bucks-can-do-no-wrong guys, though, which I think they sometimes get tagged as.


Both guys were very critical of the Bucks during podcasts they did in 2017 and 2018. However they were able to do it in such a way that it didn't seem like bomb throwing, because Frank projects that calm, non-threatening demeanor when he speaks. For those of us using social media, it is sometimes hard to convey the fact most of us are reasonable, non bomb throwing fans.

In 2019 the team got good, so need for critiques went way down. Coaching and personnel decisions have been sooo much better.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1174 » by vegaspacker » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:12 pm

For me personally I get my info-fill from the crew here. Someone always links the insightful articles, and the Twitter reposts are top notch. I'll head to BrewHoop once and again also for fluff and the comment section. Realgm has evolved into my go to for all media. I head here at least 4-5 times a day for all my info.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1175 » by emunney » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:14 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
emunney wrote:
I don't think either of them are Bucks-can-do-no-wrong guys, though, which I think they sometimes get tagged as.


Both guys were very critical of the Bucks during podcasts they did in 2017 and 2018. However they were able to do it in such a way that it didn't seem like bomb throwing, because Frank projects that calm, non-threatening demeanor when he speaks. For those of us using social media, it is sometimes hard to convey the fact most of us are reasonable, non bomb throwing fans.

In 2019 the team got good, so need for critiques went way down. Coaching and personnel decisions have been sooo much better.


Part of it also is that there *are* maniacs out there and they get worse when they're on twitter. And just by the nature of how the mind works, they stand out because not just the ideas but the way they're presented are deranged.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1176 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:14 pm

vegaspacker wrote:For me personally I get my info-fill from the crew here


Agents and player friends still post here and provide perspective and news. It is the best site for aggregation of everything thanks to all of you.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1177 » by crkone » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:19 pm

emunney wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
emunney wrote:
I don't think either of them are Bucks-can-do-no-wrong guys, though, which I think they sometimes get tagged as.


Both guys were very critical of the Bucks during podcasts they did in 2017 and 2018. However they were able to do it in such a way that it didn't seem like bomb throwing, because Frank projects that calm, non-threatening demeanor when he speaks. For those of us using social media, it is sometimes hard to convey the fact most of us are reasonable, non bomb throwing fans.

In 2019 the team got good, so need for critiques went way down. Coaching and personnel decisions have been sooo much better.


Part of it also is that there *are* maniacs out there and they get worse when they're on twitter. And just by the nature of how the mind works, they stand out because not just the ideas but the way they're presented are deranged.


This is true. I made a sarcastic remark to Nehm once that was obviously sarcastic but he didn't pick it up. He apologized and said he gets so much of it that he can't tell anymore.

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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1178 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:22 pm

emunney wrote:Part of it also is that there *are* maniacs out there and they get worse when they're on twitter. And just by the nature of how the mind works, they stand out because not just the ideas but the way they're presented are deranged.


Very true. Still go back to six-weeks ago when I floated the idea to simply discuss the possibility of renouncing Middleton, using the cash to sign Bojan. Nehm, Dean, etc. went on this twitter rant for the day, which was disappointing. And part of it was tossing into that discussion the "Bill Michael's listeners" who were ranting back that the Bucks needed to dump Middleton and sign Durant and Kemba simultaneously.

Uh no. There was a reasonable discussion to be had on that issue. You may disagree and want Khris back on a four or five-year max as your #1 priority, but there were reasonable options out there worthy of debate.

And as it turns out, we could have likely gotten Brogdon and Bojan on 4/$80 deals and diversified our contract risk greatly, as a reasonable alternative. I still would have gone that route, unless Giannis told LED he had to have Khris, no exceptions.
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1179 » by Finn » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:25 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The Nehm/LOB disdain baffles me. I get that some people still see any type of positive Bucks coverage as being a "homer" but the amount of insight and info they provide amongst local sources is second to none.

Overall, they are net positive and love listening to their game recaps. I think the disdain is there is a little bit of arrogance and Nehm playing buddy journalism. They are basically a podcast version of an above average poster here with great analyst, they provide observation "insight" but don't really provide insight that can't be obtained by watching the game. They don't break news on transactions and don't say anything negative that happens in the locker room. He's a great listen but a glorified blogger IMO. Add in the arrogance of downplaying other ideas, and I can see why people don't like him.

Really? You want a reporter leaking stuff that should stay in-house?
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Re: Woj: Malcolm Brogdon S&T to Pacers for Picks (NO TPE) 

Post#1180 » by MikeIsGood » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:55 pm

Chuck Diesel wrote:I also admittedly get irrationally annoyed at being lumped in/dismissed/generalized with the lowest common denominator of people he interacts with. Whenever Nehm does that “dumb Bucks fan” voice I immediately turn off the podcast. It’s a straw-man tactic that his buddies have seemed to emulate. The m.o seems to be “lets overreact to the most extreme voices/project overly emotional responses from dumb/crazy Bucks fans in order to prop ourselves up/gain favor/avoid the tougher organizational questions.”


I agree with your whole post, including the positives he brings. Wanted to highlight this as it bothers me most and is ultimately why I don't follow him closely.

Along these lines, I find it annoying when someone like popular Bucks Twitter follow NoTechBen does a lump/generalization like 'I bet the people who are anti-Middleton want to turn around and have us go after Westbrook, perfect Venn diagram' to prop himself up. I enjoy him as a follow more, so I deal with it (and I don't use Twitter much), but it's just a bad look IMO. And yes, when you're actually a journalist it looks worse.

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