RJ Barrett

[bearadonisdna]

As someone who didn't like Evan Turner as a prospect like that and really don't like Jarrett Culver like that. Barrett is nothing like them. R.J. is more like a less polished and a lesser Luka Doncic with more defensive potential chops and obvious speed.

R.J. will put up numbers from the jump as a three prong.

Doncic can hit a 3, and free throws, Barrett cannot. Your post is just laughably dumb.

Turner or Tyreke Evans is a good comparison to Barrett, all don't have a jump shot and way overhyped.

You're not really an established poster but your comparison are obtuse and lack substance if you think Turner or Evans in even in the same stratosphere as prospects

1. Turner was a 3 year player. RJ talented enough to be 1 and done.

2 Evans) 1 year player at C-USA with below 50% efg.

[Chanel Bomber]

Is there a precedent for a high pick known for his drive and work ethic (in addition to being a productive college player) turning into a bust?

By all accounts he's a really hard worker and it's obvious he's a very ambitious kid, and not enough attention is paid to character when it comes to draft evaluations. But it would be interesting to know if any prospects with a similar profile in terms of intangibles ever flamed out.

[King Ken]

Is there a precedent for a high pick known for his drive and work ethic (in addition to being a productive college player) turning into a bust?

By all accounts he's a really hard worker and it's obvious he's a very ambitious kid, and not enough attention is paid to character when it comes to draft evaluations. But it would be interesting to know if any prospects with a similar profile in terms of intangibles ever flamed out.

No. Not his level of polish. If anything he could be a disappointment but he wouldn't be the first Knick to be that.

If the Knicks build around him and not just build to build, they will be fine.

[Prospect Dong]

Is there a precedent for a high pick known for his drive and work ethic (in addition to being a productive college player) turning into a bust?

By all accounts he's a really hard worker and it's obvious he's a very ambitious kid, and not enough attention is paid to character when it comes to draft evaluations. But it would be interesting to know if any prospects with a similar profile in terms of intangibles ever flamed out.

Just about every player taken in the lotto has workedincredibly hard to get that far - with some notable exceptions, mostly tall guys with little love for the game). Obviously, now that you've drafted Barrett, you're hearing stories about how much time he spends in the gym, etc, and I'm sure they're mostly true, but almost every other young player has similar stories that could be told about them. We used to have LilOjMayo on our board regaling us with stories about how hard OJ was working every offseason, and every spare minute during the season. But it didn't take. "He works hard and he really wants to succeed" doesn't really differentiate him from hundreds of prospects before him. Some of them ended up as busts, not because they didn't want it enough, but because they just didn't have enough talent.

[rate_]

Among the lottery picks, I see Zion, Ja, Garland, Rui, & Herro better.

[Nazrmohamed]

As someone who didn't like Evan Turner as a prospect like that and really don't like Jarrett Culver like that. Barrett is nothing like them. R.J. is more like a less polished and a lesser Luka Doncic with more defensive potential chops and obvious speed.

R.J. will put up numbers from the jump as a three prong.

Doncic can hit a 3, and free throws, Barrett cannot. Your post is just laughably dumb.

Turner or Tyreke Evans is a good comparison to Barrett, all don't have a jump shot and way overhyped.

You're not really an established poster but your comparison are obtuse and lack substance if you think Turner or Evans in even in the same stratosphere as prospects

1. Turner was a 3 year player. RJ talented enough to be 1 and done.

2 Evans) 1 year player at C-USA with below 50% efg.

Mightve been better. I think you're playing Monday morning quarterback on that one. Not to say thier skillsets are close, actually Turner when he was drafted....pretty close. Evan's was a damn good prospect and then came in and got ROTY so you tell me how he wasnt a gradeA prospect?

That's not to say I dont believe in RJ but I dont see him having the first year impact of Evan's and could have about the same impact as Turner. I just feel that hes got a fire that Turner doesnt seem to have so I'm confident he'll get better year over year. Problem is hes playing for the most impatient fanbases and media in the league. Yet we keep drafting 19yr olds who need time. Knicks are not beyond giving up on 21yr olds and trading them for quick fix bums and starting them on that long trade road that solidifies thier bust likelyhood. I guess we'll see.

But my point is just, dont look at the final result of players who've failed and assume it couldn't happen to a kid who hasnt played anyone who matters yet. If he were superbly athletic or was a phenomenal shooter you could make a better case. But I dont think the Turner comparisons are crazy. Sometimes someone can be a player on steroids moreso than a superstar-lite and have it work out better. Let's have some patience

[kulaz3000]

As someone who didn't like Evan Turner as a prospect like that and really don't like Jarrett Culver like that. Barrett is nothing like them. R.J. is more like a less polished and a lesser Luka Doncic with more defensive potential chops and obvious speed.

R.J. will put up numbers from the jump as a three prong.

I don't see this 'obvious speed' you're referring to.

He isn't slow, but you don't watch him on the break and think to yourself, this kid has lots of speed and explosion. If anything, that is one of the glaring reasons as to why I don't think he'll ever be as good as many think. His lack of explosiveness and speed on the fast break (especially with the ball) was quite frankly alarming for someone as highly touted as he was.

[kulaz3000]

Is there a precedent for a high pick known for his drive and work ethic (in addition to being a productive college player) turning into a bust?

By all accounts he's a really hard worker and it's obvious he's a very ambitious kid, and not enough attention is paid to character when it comes to draft evaluations. But it would be interesting to know if any prospects with a similar profile in terms of intangibles ever flamed out.

Just about every player taken in the lotto has workedincredibly hard to get that far - with some notable exceptions, mostly tall guys with little love for the game). Obviously, now that you've drafted Barrett, you're hearing stories about how much time he spends in the gym, etc, and I'm sure they're mostly true, but almost every other young player has similar stories that could be told about them. We used to have LilOjMayo on our board regaling us with stories about how hard OJ was working every offseason, and every spare minute during the season. But it didn't take. "He works hard and he really wants to succeed" doesn't really differentiate him from hundreds of prospects before him. Some of them ended up as busts, not because they didn't want it enough, but because they just didn't have enough talent.

Spot on. In many respects, most of the players who end up in the NBA have been hardworkers, were determined to get there, because you need to be one of the small group of elite players to join the NBA club. It's a matter of whether he can outwork even the elite of the elite, and we just don't that yet.

[King Ken]

As someone who didn't like Evan Turner as a prospect like that and really don't like Jarrett Culver like that. Barrett is nothing like them. R.J. is more like a less polished and a lesser Luka Doncic with more defensive potential chops and obvious speed.

R.J. will put up numbers from the jump as a three prong.

I don't see this 'obvious speed' you're referring to.

He isn't slow, but you don't watch him on the break and think to yourself, this kid has lots of speed and explosion. If anything, that is one of the glaring reasons as to why I don't think he'll ever be as good as many think. His lack of explosiveness and speed on the fast break (especially with the ball) was quite frankly alarming for someone as highly touted as he was.

Open court speed. R.J. is as fast as anyone in the open court across the NBA, especially for his size.

Explosion, no. Speed, yes. In the half court, he is still fast if he can get moving.

[Ruzious]

Doncic can hit a 3, and free throws, Barrett cannot. Your post is just laughably dumb.

Turner or Tyreke Evans is a good comparison to Barrett, all don't have a jump shot and way overhyped.

You're not really an established poster but your comparison are obtuse and lack substance if you think Turner or Evans in even in the same stratosphere as prospects

1. Turner was a 3 year player. RJ talented enough to be 1 and done.

2 Evans) 1 year player at C-USA with below 50% efg.

Mightve been better. I think you're playing Monday morning quarterback on that one. Not to say thier skillsets are close, actually Turner when he was drafted....pretty close. Evan's was a damn good prospect and then came in and got ROTY so you tell me how he wasnt a gradeA prospect?

That's not to say I dont believe in RJ but I dont see him having the first year impact of Evan's and could have about the same impact as Turner. I just feel that hes got a fire that Turner doesnt seem to have so I'm confident he'll get better year over year. Problem is hes playing for the most impatient fanbases and media in the league. Yet we keep drafting 19yr olds who need time. Knicks are not beyond giving up on 21yr olds and trading them for quick fix bums and starting them on that long trade road that solidifies thier bust likelyhood. I guess we'll see.

But my point is just, dont look at the final result of players who've failed and assume it couldn't happen to a kid who hasnt played anyone who matters yet. If he were superbly athletic or was a phenomenal shooter you could make a better case. But I dont think the Turner comparisons are crazy. Sometimes someone can be a player on steroids moreso than a superstar-lite and have it work out better. Let's have some patience

He's a better prospect than Turner, because he's physically stronger and better able to play through contact at both ends, but... other than that, I don't see much difference as far as NBA skills and physical ability. His shot selection is worse. His shot will have to improve dramatically for him to be particularly effective in the NBA, and I'd be surprised if that happens.

[clyde21]

well, that, and Barrett at 18 was a MUCH better player than Turner at 18, so he's already ahead of that curve.

[Nazrmohamed]

You're not really an established poster but your comparison are obtuse and lack substance if you think Turner or Evans in even in the same stratosphere as prospects

1. Turner was a 3 year player. RJ talented enough to be 1 and done.

2 Evans) 1 year player at C-USA with below 50% efg.

Mightve been better. I think you're playing Monday morning quarterback on that one. Not to say thier skillsets are close, actually Turner when he was drafted....pretty close. Evan's was a damn good prospect and then came in and got ROTY so you tell me how he wasnt a gradeA prospect?

That's not to say I dont believe in RJ but I dont see him having the first year impact of Evan's and could have about the same impact as Turner. I just feel that hes got a fire that Turner doesnt seem to have so I'm confident he'll get better year over year. Problem is hes playing for the most impatient fanbases and media in the league. Yet we keep drafting 19yr olds who need time. Knicks are not beyond giving up on 21yr olds and trading them for quick fix bums and starting them on that long trade road that solidifies thier bust likelyhood. I guess we'll see.

But my point is just, dont look at the final result of players who've failed and assume it couldn't happen to a kid who hasnt played anyone who matters yet. If he were superbly athletic or was a phenomenal shooter you could make a better case. But I dont think the Turner comparisons are crazy. Sometimes someone can be a player on steroids moreso than a superstar-lite and have it work out better. Let's have some patience

He's a better prospect than Turner, because he's physically stronger and better able to play through contact at both ends, but... other than that, I don't see much difference as far as NBA skills and physical ability. His shot selection is worse. His shot will have to improve dramatically for him to be particularly effective in the NBA, and I'd be surprised if that happens.

I also think hes faster, at least in the open court. But I agree with what you said.

[VanWest82]

Pretty good article on how RJ needs to change his game to fit in with the Knicks and be a successful NBA player: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/8/8/20756167/rj-barrett-new-york-knicks

The good and bad of RJ Barrett was on display at Las Vegas summer league. Barrett, who was called “Maple Mamba” as a teenager in Canada, played like a bad parody of Kobe Bryant in his first two games with the Knicks. The no. 3 pick forced the issue on offense and hunted for his own shot without any regard for his teammates. He was a different player in their last three games: He played within himself, moved the ball, and took what the defense gave him.

[clyde21]

people that doubted RJ lookin silly now, career high 32, shooting over 36% from 3 now, evolving into a legitimate wing sized playmaker who's not a negative defensively, high value player possibly moving forward if he can keep developing.

Spurs DeRozan looks like the median outcome for him

[Ruzious]

people that doubted RJ lookin silly now, career high 32, shooting over 36% from 3 now, evolving into a legitimate wing sized playmaker who's not a negative defensively, high value player possibly moving forward if he can keep developing.

Spurs DeRozan looks like the median outcome for him

I mean, yeah he's much improved over a bad rookie season, but he's a long way from being a good 3rd pick in the draft. He's still an inefficient scorer with average productivity and poor advanced stats. He's basically about where I thought he'd be. Still very young, so there's room for some optimism.

[Chanel Bomber]

people that doubted RJ lookin silly now, career high 32, shooting over 36% from 3 now, evolving into a legitimate wing sized playmaker who's not a negative defensively, high value player possibly moving forward if he can keep developing.

Spurs DeRozan looks like the median outcome for him

I mean, yeah he's much improved over a bad rookie season, but he's a long way from being a good 3rd pick in the draft. He's still an inefficient scorer with average productivity and poor advanced stats. He's basically about where I thought he'd be. Still very young, so there's room for some optimism.

Some context: He completely reworked his shooting form over the summer and I think his early season struggles shooting the ball were the byproduct of him getting used to his new form during real game situations. I'm not denying the fact that he's been an inefficient scorer on average this season, or pretending that the early season sample size should be conveniently ignored, but I think this development is worth taking into account. The lack of spacing with Payton (with whom he stupefyingly shares most of his minutes) on the court also has to factor into those percentages.

The Knicks play much harder on both ends with RJ on the court. He still needs to get better but I have no doubts that he'll eventually become a great all-around player thanks to his work ethic and intangibles. As you said, still very young.

[DickGrayson]

people that doubted RJ lookin silly now, career high 32, shooting over 36% from 3 now, evolving into a legitimate wing sized playmaker who's not a negative defensively, high value player possibly moving forward if he can keep developing.

Spurs DeRozan looks like the median outcome for him

I mean, yeah he's much improved over a bad rookie season, but he's a long way from being a good 3rd pick in the draft. He's still an inefficient scorer with average productivity and poor advanced stats. He's basically about where I thought he'd be. Still very young, so there's room for some optimism.

Nonsensical take.
RJ isn't "inefficient" at all. He recently dropped a career high and isn't even 21 yet. He's already a good 3rd pick. Do you even watch Knicks game ? He's playing defense consistently, rebounding the ball well and dishing the ball as well. RJ guards 1-4 and has improved his ball handling significantly and these are things you'll never notice without watching games which is why your take is complete non sense.

Seems like something personal and people don't want to get embarrassed in this thread for mindless downplay and neutralplay a future all star. Most teams would kill to have someone like Barrett. He's not Zion or Ja, but he's definitely an all star talent.


These Turner and Evan comparisons are comedy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/m4nz66/rj_barrett_is_currently_having_a_better_sophomore/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

^ RJ posting better numbers than Tatum at a younger age and with less help in a more clogged offense with Elf as PG who never passes to RJ. It's miracle RJ even scores in this clogged offense of the Knicks.

RJ 400000% worth the #3 pick. People are just salty and accustomed to trashing the Knicks and think everything the Knicks touch turns into caca. Nah. Not this time b. RJ is legit and saying "he's basically where I thought he would be" and still downplay his offense is just deeply the worst take in this thread and RJs improvement will continue to shut the doubters and neutral folks who try to play safe but don't even watch Knick games like that to know who RJ Barrett. Advanced stats? Did you do the same approach with Tatum ? This is where people fail. Trying to project a player based on his advanced stats at 20 and you can't even factor or mention the team dynamic or build up. It's sad actually fans have become so lazy, ignore gameplay footage and don't even try to do an eye test. We're in a era of 15 second to 3 minute highlight reels. He's not even close to his potential. Dude was 19 last year and yall saying he's "inefficient". He's having an excellent sophomore year. He's improved in every category and the downplay still continues.

This thread will be the most bumped thread of 2021 and you all will have to hold that.

TEAM CANADIAN BACON.

DickGrayson, see the post before yours - written by Chanel Bomber - which comes to basically the same conclusions you came to. It's written well, has legitimate clearly written reasons for his views, and is worthy of respect - all things the opposite of your post. - Ruz

[No-Man]

RJ has a 53TS%, he is super inefficient and that's with usage not being even that high, actually low for a 2nd scorer type

[NoDopeOnSundays]

RJ has a 53TS%, he is super inefficient and that's with usage not being even that high, actually low for a 2nd scorer type

People like this who don't watch players, but rattle off stats without context are the absolute worst to have a discussion with, because they aren't following the progression of the player they're talking about and they don't watch games either.

RJ has a TS of 57% over the last 25 games, 17/5/3 on 49% from the field and 48% from three in that stretch. He hasn't been "super inefficient" for a majority of the season but his numbers are brought down by an inefficient start that has been corrected, hence the rising numbers. He's been extremely efficient since that start, he's not even top 4 on our team in touches per game either, he has the ball in his hands less than Randle, Payton and Rose, so functionally he's only a 2nd scorer because of how efficient he is when he finally gets the ball. You'd know that if you watched the Knicks play, he's our 2nd leading scorer, but he doesn't have the ball in his hands nearly as much as other players.

[No-Man]

lmao man, you don't know much about stats, guys make leaps surely, but your season is your season as a whole, this could very well be a hot streak and his inefficient start his real level, you are as good as your total, it is how it works

"extremely efficient" 57TS% is basically league average

And I follow these guys' seasons from beginning to end, it just simply ain't true, you are just choosing to follow the angle thaat most benefits you because you are a fan and biased, I am not

That's basically what I said, that for a 2nd scorer he has a low usage and that his low efficiency is even worse news because of that, had he the ball in his hands more and low efficiency it'd be more understandable/better

Fans like this who don't can't be objective are THE absolute worst to have a discussion with