Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

[greenroom31]

Can hayward play the 2? I think we can start gordon at the 2, and tatum at the 3 on certain matchups. Especially against the sixers and bucks. Move jaylen on the 2nd unit. Maybe start Theis or Poirier next to Kanter. If were playing against AD and Cousins, maybe we can start RW and Kanter together. If we use Tatum at the 4, Horford and Giannis would just pound him inside and would require a double, leaving their shooters open. Of course we would be versatile on offense with Tatum at the 4, but my problem is with our defense. RW is still a long way to be reliable at the C spot.

Hayward can’t defend 2s due to lack of quickness. Offensively he can play the 2 I guess but not sure why teams would put a SG on him....

[LewisnotMiller]

Can hayward play the 2? I think we can start gordon at the 2, and tatum at the 3 on certain matchups. Especially against the sixers and bucks. Move jaylen on the 2nd unit. Maybe start Theis or Poirier next to Kanter. If were playing against AD and Cousins, maybe we can start RW and Kanter together. If we use Tatum at the 4, Horford and Giannis would just pound him inside and would require a double, leaving their shooters open. Of course we would be versatile on offense with Tatum at the 4, but my problem is with our defense. RW is still a long way to be reliable at the C spot.

Hayward can’t defend 2s due to lack of quickness. Offensively he can play the 2 I guess but not sure why teams would put a SG on him....

Yup. He could lay some 2 in his Utah days, but looks unlikely to be a thing now.

[Triple7]

Can hayward play the 2? I think we can start gordon at the 2, and tatum at the 3 on certain matchups. Especially against the sixers and bucks. Move jaylen on the 2nd unit. Maybe start Theis or Poirier next to Kanter. If were playing against AD and Cousins, maybe we can start RW and Kanter together. If we use Tatum at the 4, Horford and Giannis would just pound him inside and would require a double, leaving their shooters open. Of course we would be versatile on offense with Tatum at the 4, but my problem is with our defense. RW is still a long way to be reliable at the C spot.

Hayward can’t defend 2s due to lack of quickness. Offensively he can play the 2 I guess but not sure why teams would put a SG on him....

I just think that we can’t sustain Tatum at the 4 defensively. He would just take a beating defensively and would take a toll on his body. If hayward can’t play the 2, then i think he would just have to move to the 2nd unit.

[greenroom31]

Can hayward play the 2? I think we can start gordon at the 2, and tatum at the 3 on certain matchups. Especially against the sixers and bucks. Move jaylen on the 2nd unit. Maybe start Theis or Poirier next to Kanter. If were playing against AD and Cousins, maybe we can start RW and Kanter together. If we use Tatum at the 4, Horford and Giannis would just pound him inside and would require a double, leaving their shooters open. Of course we would be versatile on offense with Tatum at the 4, but my problem is with our defense. RW is still a long way to be reliable at the C spot.

Hayward can’t defend 2s due to lack of quickness. Offensively he can play the 2 I guess but not sure why teams would put a SG on him....

I just think that we can’t sustain Tatum at the 4 defensively. He would just take a beating defensively and would take a toll on his body. If hayward can’t play the 2, then i think he would just have to move to the 2nd unit.

Of Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward I’d say Tatum is the weakest. Hayward has some pretty thick legs. Also most 4s are stretch at this point anyway and not backing dudes down. I think those 3 guys should be able to collectively match up with the majority of 2-4 personnel in the league. If teams go big or small on us we can swap one guy out.

If they go small, swap Smart for one of them. If they go big, swap one of our many underwhelming big men in hahahhah

Agree it’s a weakness unless Poirier magically doesn’t suck, but the good news is that most teams don’t play big anymore. Philly is the anomaly of course and we have no one to slow Embiid down. Against Milwaukee we’ll have to dust off Semi and pray.

[williambh3]

Zoya’s agent leaking through the media his disappointment with the offseason, citing a lack of trade ballast. We better hope the Theis deal gets announced with a ballon first year and partial guarantee on the second, otherwise he could force his way to the philly board to reunite with big al. He also reportedly liked their creative use of the S&T to bring back richardson when it became clear butler was leaving.

[reload141]

Zoya entering the new thread with 182 new S&T ideas to share, only to see us trading him.

[Triple7]

Hayward can’t defend 2s due to lack of quickness. Offensively he can play the 2 I guess but not sure why teams would put a SG on him....

I just think that we can’t sustain Tatum at the 4 defensively. He would just take a beating defensively and would take a toll on his body. If hayward can’t play the 2, then i think he would just have to move to the 2nd unit.

Of Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward I’d say Tatum is the weakest. Hayward has some pretty thick legs. Also most 4s are stretch at this point anyway and not backing dudes down. I think those 3 guys should be able to collectively match up with the majority of 2-4 personnel in the league. If teams go big or small on us we can swap one guy out.

If they go small, swap Smart for one of them. If they go big, swap one of our many underwhelming big men in hahahhah

Agree it’s a weakness unless Poirier magically doesn’t suck, but the good news is that most teams don’t play big anymore. Philly is the anomaly of course and we have no one to slow Embiid down. Against Milwaukee we’ll have to dust off Semi and pray.

I agree! Brad needs to be creative. I didn’t like his player development last season, although we are stacked last year. I hope he gives our young guys a chance early.

[fallguy]

Ready for season to start now please and thank you.

[Parliament10]

I just think that we can’t sustain Tatum at the 4 defensively. He would just take a beating defensively and would take a toll on his body. If hayward can’t play the 2, then i think he would just have to move to the 2nd unit.

Of Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward I’d say Tatum is the weakest. Hayward has some pretty thick legs. Also most 4s are stretch at this point anyway and not backing dudes down. I think those 3 guys should be able to collectively match up with the majority of 2-4 personnel in the league. If teams go big or small on us we can swap one guy out.

If they go small, swap Smart for one of them. If they go big, swap one of our many underwhelming big men in hahahhah

Agree it’s a weakness unless Poirier magically doesn’t suck, but the good news is that most teams don’t play big anymore. Philly is the anomaly of course and we have no one to slow Embiid down. Against Milwaukee we’ll have to dust off Semi and pray.

I agree! Brad needs to be creative. I didn’t like his player development last season, although we are stacked last year. I hope he gives our young guys a chance early.

It's quite the dilemma. Brown can't handle the ball, as a 2.
Hayward is a 2nd Ballhandler, but is too big to play the 2 consistently.

And Tatum is not big enough to play the 4 consistently.
The three of them really shouldn't play together.

If Hayward is up to form, I think that he has to Start. Especially as a Ballhandler.
That really leaves Tatum coming off the Bench. Which he has never done.

Edit:
We may have to slot in R. Williams really early for Tatum.


2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Kanter
Wanamaker - Smart - Ojeleye - R. Williams - Poirier

Edwards - Langford - G. Williams - Theis - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters

[Bill Lumbergh]

Of Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward I’d say Tatum is the weakest. Hayward has some pretty thick legs. Also most 4s are stretch at this point anyway and not backing dudes down. I think those 3 guys should be able to collectively match up with the majority of 2-4 personnel in the league. If teams go big or small on us we can swap one guy out.

If they go small, swap Smart for one of them. If they go big, swap one of our many underwhelming big men in hahahhah

Agree it’s a weakness unless Poirier magically doesn’t suck, but the good news is that most teams don’t play big anymore. Philly is the anomaly of course and we have no one to slow Embiid down. Against Milwaukee we’ll have to dust off Semi and pray.

I agree! Brad needs to be creative. I didn’t like his player development last season, although we are stacked last year. I hope he gives our young guys a chance early.

It's quite the dilemma. Brown can't handle the ball, as a 2.
Hayward is a 2nd Ballhandler, but is too big to play the 2 consistently.

And Tatum is not big enough to play the 4 consistently.
The three of them really shouldn't play together.

If Hayward is up to form, I think that he has to Start. Especially as a Ballhandler.
That really leaves Tatum coming off the Bench. Which he has never done.

I don’t think Tatum is quick enough to guard 2’s. Ditto for Hayward. And Tatum is not strong enough to play the 4 for more than spot minutes. Ditto Hayward. They are both 3’s. I wish we would have addressed the 4 position. In my mind, only Brown and Smart should be playing 2 other than spot duty by Tatum or Hayward, or if Langford miraculously proves worthy of minutes as a rookie.

I really don’t want Tatum or Hayward playing out of position at the 4, but it looks like that’s what is going to happen. I hope it doesn’t bite us in the ass.

[Triple7]

Of Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward I’d say Tatum is the weakest. Hayward has some pretty thick legs. Also most 4s are stretch at this point anyway and not backing dudes down. I think those 3 guys should be able to collectively match up with the majority of 2-4 personnel in the league. If teams go big or small on us we can swap one guy out.

If they go small, swap Smart for one of them. If they go big, swap one of our many underwhelming big men in hahahhah

Agree it’s a weakness unless Poirier magically doesn’t suck, but the good news is that most teams don’t play big anymore. Philly is the anomaly of course and we have no one to slow Embiid down. Against Milwaukee we’ll have to dust off Semi and pray.

I agree! Brad needs to be creative. I didn’t like his player development last season, although we are stacked last year. I hope he gives our young guys a chance early.

It's quite the dilemma. Brown can't handle the ball, as a 2.
Hayward is a 2nd Ballhandler, but is too big to play the 2 consistently.

And Tatum is not big enough to play the 4 consistently.
The three of them really shouldn't play together.

If Hayward is up to form, I think that he has to Start. Especially as a Ballhandler.
That really leaves Tatum coming off the Bench. Which he has never done.

Edit:
We may have to slot in R. Williams really early for Tatum.


2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Kanter
Wanamaker - Smart - Ojeleye - R. Williams - Poirier

Edwards - Langford - G. Williams - Theis - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters

That would probably be our starting lineup. I don’t think Tatum off the bench would be beneficial for us. We want him to take a leap this year, and him off the bench, would be a blow to his confidence.

[Triple7]

I agree! Brad needs to be creative. I didn’t like his player development last season, although we are stacked last year. I hope he gives our young guys a chance early.

It's quite the dilemma. Brown can't handle the ball, as a 2.
Hayward is a 2nd Ballhandler, but is too big to play the 2 consistently.

And Tatum is not big enough to play the 4 consistently.
The three of them really shouldn't play together.

If Hayward is up to form, I think that he has to Start. Especially as a Ballhandler.
That really leaves Tatum coming off the Bench. Which he has never done.

I don’t think Tatum is quick enough to guard 2’s. Ditto for Hayward. And Tatum is not strong enough to play the 4 for more than spot minutes. Ditto Hayward. They are both 3’s. I wish we would have addressed the 4 position. In my mind, only Brown and Smart should be playing 2 other than spot duty by Tatum or Hayward, or if Langford miraculously proves worthy of minutes as a rookie.

I really don’t want Tatum or Hayward playing out of position at the 4, but it looks like that’s what is going to happen. I hope it doesn’t bite us in the ass.

I think we can’t keep both tatum and hayward. They have the same position. They both can’t play the 2 and the 4, other than spot minutes, and benching the other guy won’t be better for them and the team. Brown and hayward plus tons of picks for beal and bryant?

[Shak_Celts]

No one thinks GH can play the 4 but IIRC, he played more 4 his last season in Utah than the 3. I also remember his numbers being better at the 4, I think both offensively and defensively. Don't underestimate his ability to play it and it's not like he'd have to do it all game, probably around 12-15m a game. He's not even that small in comparison to PF anyway, he's not even out sized by most C these days, just about a handful of bigs that play a lot of mins would be too much for him, he certainly could switch and survive. If GH returns to form or close to it, he will surprise a lot of people with how solid he is defensively.

[Triple7]

No one thinks GH can play the 4 but IIRC, he played more 4 his last season in Utah than the 3. I also remember his numbers being better at the 4, I think both offensively and defensively. Don't underestimate his ability to play it and it's not like he'd have to do it all game, probably around 12-15m a game. He's not even that small in comparison to PF anyway, he's not even out sized by most C these days, just about a handful of bigs that play a lot of mins would be too much for him, he certainly could switch and survive. If GH returns to form or close to it, he will surprise a lot of people with how solid he is defensively.

I agree that most 4’s are about gordon’s height. Theis is 6’8. same height as gordon. In spot minutes he can probably survive at the 4, but i doubt he can be good defensively at the 4 even if he returns to form.

[Bill Lumbergh]

It's quite the dilemma. Brown can't handle the ball, as a 2.
Hayward is a 2nd Ballhandler, but is too big to play the 2 consistently.

And Tatum is not big enough to play the 4 consistently.
The three of them really shouldn't play together.

If Hayward is up to form, I think that he has to Start. Especially as a Ballhandler.
That really leaves Tatum coming off the Bench. Which he has never done.

I don’t think Tatum is quick enough to guard 2’s. Ditto for Hayward. And Tatum is not strong enough to play the 4 for more than spot minutes. Ditto Hayward. They are both 3’s. I wish we would have addressed the 4 position. In my mind, only Brown and Smart should be playing 2 other than spot duty by Tatum or Hayward, or if Langford miraculously proves worthy of minutes as a rookie.

I really don’t want Tatum or Hayward playing out of position at the 4, but it looks like that’s what is going to happen. I hope it doesn’t bite us in the ass.

I think we can’t keep both tatum and hayward. They have the same position. They both can’t play the 2 and the 4, other than spot minutes, and benching the other guy won’t be better for them and the team. Brown and hayward plus tons of picks for beal and bryant?

It's a shame that one of them ought to come off the bench since they both play the 3, but I suspect that Brad will start them both anyway. I'm very curious to see how Hayward looks this year. Tbh, I didn't watch him when he was in Utah unless they were playing us, so I don't really know how good he was, but since he made an all-star team, he must have been good, so I'd like to get a good look at him this year before making any decisions about trading anyone. Basically, I just want to see how the whole team looks before making trades. I suspect we'll need a beefier 4 man, but we'll see, and for the record, I don't regard Bob as a 4. He plays strictly like a 5 at this point. Once again, we're a little unbalanced to start the year.

That said, though, I can't wait for the new season. I look forward to being able to like my team again.

[Darth Celtic]

At this rate kanter might be signed by training camp.

[LewisnotMiller]

No one thinks GH can play the 4 but IIRC, he played more 4 his last season in Utah than the 3. I also remember his numbers being better at the 4, I think both offensively and defensively. Don't underestimate his ability to play it and it's not like he'd have to do it all game, probably around 12-15m a game. He's not even that small in comparison to PF anyway, he's not even out sized by most C these days, just about a handful of bigs that play a lot of mins would be too much for him, he certainly could switch and survive. If GH returns to form or close to it, he will surprise a lot of people with how solid he is defensively.

Nah...he played more three, and his numbers were better at the three. But he did play a good amount of 4, that's certainly true. And his second to last season he played even more 4, and had roughly comparable numbers at the 3 and 4.

(Note : that's a bit subjective, depends what numbers you're interested in)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01/lineups/2016


My concern is more that I think him at 4 with Gobert...heck, even Favours...behind him is a different consideration to him with Kanter behind him.

Don't worry about the 4 he has to guard, we'd have a grand total of zero help defence.

[robdog_5]

Basketball in general has kind of gone away from 3s and 4s. Its Gs, wings and bigs. Most teams have 3 wings on court a lot. Its not a big deal

[Shak_Celts]

No one thinks GH can play the 4 but IIRC, he played more 4 his last season in Utah than the 3. I also remember his numbers being better at the 4, I think both offensively and defensively. Don't underestimate his ability to play it and it's not like he'd have to do it all game, probably around 12-15m a game. He's not even that small in comparison to PF anyway, he's not even out sized by most C these days, just about a handful of bigs that play a lot of mins would be too much for him, he certainly could switch and survive. If GH returns to form or close to it, he will surprise a lot of people with how solid he is defensively.

Nah...he played more three, and his numbers were better at the three. But he did play a good amount of 4, that's certainly true. And his second to last season he played even more 4, and had roughly comparable numbers at the 3 and 4.

(Note : that's a bit subjective, depends what numbers you're interested in)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01/lineups/2016


My concern is more that I think him at 4 with Gobert...heck, even Favours...behind him is a different consideration to him with Kanter behind him.

Don't worry about the 4 he has to guard, we'd have a grand total of zero help defence.

Thanks for the info. So he is as good either way? I'd play him at the 4. I get that he played with better guys on the back end but I also have faith that CBS will put out at least an average defensive team. We have had a really good one every season and it didn't matter who we had. If we manage a top 5-10 offense with a 10 or so defense (we have been excellent his entire career), we will be good. IT4 was the worst defender in the league and we still had a solid defense (I think even before Al). Kanter isn't good (probably will be better with focus), but he isn't the worst in the league, every other starter will be solid to very good.

I'm going to die on this hill until I see it not work. He's just not going to have to do it a lot to matter much and when he does, people will be surprised. If we have a matchup that would exploit him, CBS hasn't been scared to change things up, we will just start someone else those games. Can't wait!

[Shak_Celts]

I'm going to quit RGM and CS if our team isn't top 10 defensively IF we start KW, JB, JT, GH, and EK! I'm adamant we will surprise people. How good the team will be is something I'm not willing to bet on.

Spoiler:

not sure it will help but I'm going to start praying now!

Spoiler:

I'll be super pee'd if we finish 11th.

Spoiler:

what if we start the season with that group and they stink and we change it a few games in... oh man.