2019 Bucks Off Season Thread - Trades, Transactions - Korver Signs

[Badgerlander]

SImmons & Lowe briefly discussed the Bucks on Bill's latest pod. Pretty much had a consensus that on paper the team looks slightly worse but will likely find a way to make that up.

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Lowry has been hot garbage for how many years in the playoffs using the PnR to facilitate his own horrible shot selection. I’m assuming that Nurse pushed him to create for others this year and helped him find success. Hopefully another season will help Bud run some sets to play into Bledsoe’s strengths/minimize his weaknesses. Bled also works pretty hard on his game in the offseason. I do agree though that we are going to need another piece, hopefully we can work some more deadline magic like we did with Hill

[DingleJerry]

Besides the 3, as pointed out he's being left wide open so unless he hits at a ridiculous clip that it's impossible for him they're going to continue to do that, he needs to correct his shot so he can shoot with people on him. IF/when he gets stoned on a drive, is forced into a late clock situation, etc he has to have a shot that he can rise up and shoot on someone. His shot right now is a slow mechanical pretty much set shot. He needs to be able to rise up fluidly and hit respectably with someone on him. By no means am I saying this should be a go to move or something he seeks out, but 2-3 of these game when forced into it is a big help. Right now, he doesn't really even have the form/shot to do it.

The downside of Giannis's freight train Euro step drive is that once he commits to it - there aren't any counters available to him when he gets walled off. I could see him utilize a face-up jumpshot in the post, but I don't see him ever developing an effective pull-up jumper. Perhaps he could develop a little push/floater from 5-8 feet.

Yup, same idea/issue I'm getting at but that's what I'm saying he needs to improve. His current form is robotic and set, like he can't really even do it quickly off the dribble. Kind of needs an overhaul or all he'll ever be able to do is wide open set shots in regards to normal shooting. What you said here with push/floaters we definitely saw some progress in that regard this year, also with it was some more short hooks. That's been a take of mine too as everyone obsesses on 3s, first and easiest thing he can do is improve these types of shots to give him options when the dunk isn't there. Definitely increased last year and I hope to see more.

[Bucksfan28]

How many guys Giannis' size are shooting consistently well off-the-dribble besides Durant? I'm fine with where he's at in that regard. His percentages were best (and not that they were "good" per se*) on pull-up jumpers and threes after he took a few dribbles.

Catch-and-shoot is where he has the most room for improvement.

*EDIT: Relative to guys his size his pull-up jumper % was good actually.

[DingleJerry]

How many guys Giannis' size are shooting consistently well off-the-dribble besides Durant? I'm fine with where he's at in that regard. His percentages were best (and not that they were "good" per se*) on pull-up jumpers and threes after he took a few dribbles.

Catch-and-shoot is where he has the most room for improvement.

*EDIT: Relative to guys his size his pull-up jumper % was good actually.

YEa I'd agree the catch shoot could do better, that used to be his best way but that's gone now. However, I don't think the stat you're looking at is indicative of what I mean. What Giannis does is use a couple rhythm dribbles to set himself before shooting while wide open. Yes, he's fairly ok at that and glad he's at least added that. But this stat is massively skewed to rhythm dribbles when wide open.

It still ends up in a set shot though and has to be wide open for it. I mean a real challenged shot in traffic, his current form doesn't really even allow it. Being that it would require a massive overhaul it's probably best to keep doing things as is and just hit those wide open ones enough and focus on the more diverse near hoop finishes. Plenty of guys 6'9/10ish shoot normal jump shots instead of set shots, pull ups or off dribble etc. If you make a huge distinction between that and 7'0 like him and KD then yea not so much but can 1-2 inches be that big a deal. It's probably his freak hands that are more of the problem than his height actually.

[Bucksfan28]

How many guys Giannis' size are shooting consistently well off-the-dribble besides Durant? I'm fine with where he's at in that regard. His percentages were best (and not that they were "good" per se*) on pull-up jumpers and threes after he took a few dribbles.

Catch-and-shoot is where he has the most room for improvement.

*EDIT: Relative to guys his size his pull-up jumper % was good actually.

YEa I'd agree the catch shoot could do better, that used to be his best way but that's gone now. However, I don't think the stat you're looking at is indicative of what I mean. What Giannis does is use a couple rhythm dribbles to set himself before shooting while wide open. Yes, he's fairly ok at that and glad he's at least added that. But this stat is massively skewed to rhythm dribbles when wide open.

It still ends up in a set shot though and has to be wide open for it. I mean a real challenged shot in traffic, his current form doesn't really even allow it. Being that it would require a massive overhaul it's probably best to keep doing things as is and just hit those wide open ones enough and focus on the more diverse near hoop finishes. Plenty of guys 6'9/10ish or up shoot normal jump shots instead of set shots, pull ups or off dribble etc. If you make a huge distinction between that and 7'0 like him and KD then yea not so much but can 1-2 inches be that big a deal. It's probably his freak hands that are more of the problem than his height actually.

Valid. I pretty much assumed the same thing about those numbers when I found them. I just don't know if what you're describing is something we can ever realistically expect from him, and I don't want him to get in his head with all of the "get a jumper" talk that he agonizes over it. And considering how much space defenses give him to begin with he may routinely get that space to take the necessary rhythm dribbles anyways. So if those percentages can persist/improve that'd be great.

[raferfenix]

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Bledsoe over Brogdon is a choice our franchise made that deserves detailed analysis as we move forward.

[LuessiT]

Once again..... We've seen Giannis shooting 30+ percent from 3 on almost 4 attempts per game in the POs. It didnt change anything. If 4 attempts per game isnt high enough volume for you what would be?

Giannis shooting 33% on 3s is preferable to a defense then him driving to the paint. Theyll take that all day

You have to remember Giannis shooting 33-35% from 3 isnt equal to the average player that shoots 35% from 3. The average player in that scenerio will be covered because if they're left wide open with all day to line up their shot (like Giannis is) theyll be shooting a MUCH higher percentage then 33-35%. Giannis on the other hand is shooting those wide open all day looks at a 33% clip.

If Giannis is actually going to get defenders to meet him at the 3pt line hes going to have to start making wide open 3s at a much higher percentage then 33% (or as you suggest 30%). We've seen 30%.... It did nothing

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If we're talking about shooting every time he's open and defenses don't adjust as you say, it's every possession. Giannis averaged 17.5 FGA in the playoffs. So I'm guessing 17.5?

So what you're suggesting is a defense would adjust to him averaging 17.5 points a game while not having to expend any energy defensively, not have to worry about leaving the other shooters open by helping on drives, rotate defensively or risk any fouls because somehow that's a worse scenerio for them then Giannis driving and either scoring, passing out to an open guy that's a good shooter or drawing a foul?

Really?

Once again. The defense would take that all day. He could shoot 30 and make 10 every game and the D still would much rather him do that then what he does now. Averaging 1 point per possession is a step back for Giannis (actually it'd be a step back for like the top 15 scorers in the league)


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You're oblivious to exeggaration aren't you. Also you don't realize or willfully ignore what goes into Giannis shooting wide open 3's early in the shot clock. No turnovers. Not on Giannis nor on his teammates trying to create for him. No offensive fouls. No transition opportunities for the opposing team. No strain on Giannis body. This much more than ppp.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Bledsoe over Brogdon is a choice our franchise made that deserves detailed analysis as we move forward.

Don't forget that we originally obtained Bledsoe because Brogdon at the point wasn't working out. Who would our primary ball-handler be right now if we let Bledsoe walk and re-signed Brogdon?

(This isn't aimed at you personally)

[Bucksfan28]

SImmons & Lowe briefly discussed the Bucks on Bill's latest pod. Pretty much had a consensus that on paper the team looks slightly worse but will likely find a way to make that up.

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Lowry has been hot garbage for how many years in the playoffs using the PnR to facilitate his own horrible shot selection. I’m assuming that Nurse pushed him to create for others this year and helped him find success. Hopefully another season will help Bud run some sets to play into Bledsoe’s strengths/minimize his weaknesses. Bled also works pretty hard on his game in the offseason. I do agree though that we are going to need another piece, hopefully we can work some more deadline magic like we did with Hill

This is also what I'm hoping for. I have faith that Bud and the staff are smart enough to put Bledsoe in his best spots. Which then follows to your next point about needing another piece: maybe that isn't necessary if Bled plays like RS Bled in the playoffs. But that's obviously not something you can bank on happening.

[RRyder823]

If we're talking about shooting every time he's open and defenses don't adjust as you say, it's every possession. Giannis averaged 17.5 FGA in the playoffs. So I'm guessing 17.5?

So what you're suggesting is a defense would adjust to him averaging 17.5 points a game while not having to expend any energy defensively, not have to worry about leaving the other shooters open by helping on drives, rotate defensively or risk any fouls because somehow that's a worse scenerio for them then Giannis driving and either scoring, passing out to an open guy that's a good shooter or drawing a foul?

Really?

Once again. The defense would take that all day. He could shoot 30 and make 10 every game and the D still would much rather him do that then what he does now. Averaging 1 point per possession is a step back for Giannis (actually it'd be a step back for like the top 15 scorers in the league)


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You're oblivious to exeggaration aren't you. Also you don't realize or willfully ignore what goes into Giannis shooting wide open 3's early in the shot clock. No turnovers. Not on Giannis nor on his teammates trying to create for him. No offensive fouls. No transition opportunities for the opposing team. No strain on Giannis body. This much more than ppp.

Turnovers and offensive fouls are factored into points per possession. I didnt ignore nothing. 1 ppp is a step back for Giannis (although you are ignoring that it results no added fatigue or added fouls for the opposition)

ONCE AGAIN. We've seen Giannis shoot 3s at a 30+ percent clip. IT DID NOTHING.

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[EastSideBucksFan]

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Bledsoe over Brogdon is a choice our franchise made that deserves detailed analysis as we move forward.

While Bledsoe's playoff failures are a major concern right now and shouldn't be understated.

I feel like two things are being completely dismissed this in Brogdon v Bledsoe debate

1. Bledsoe was First Team All NBA Defense at PG.

2. Brogdon at point guard was a failure that triggered the Bledsoe trade.


I feel like Bledsoe was kind of written out of the offensive game plan too much this year and part of me liked him deferring to get others involved, but, I feel he wasn't able to turn that switch back on when we needed it most in the playoffs.

I'm very curious to see how his offensive role/usage changes this year with no Brogdon.

[Chuck Diesel]

Think you have to take into account who was coaching before declaring Brogdon a “failure at point guard” three weeks into the 17-18 season.

[LuessiT]

So what you're suggesting is a defense would adjust to him averaging 17.5 points a game while not having to expend any energy defensively, not have to worry about leaving the other shooters open by helping on drives, rotate defensively or risk any fouls because somehow that's a worse scenerio for them then Giannis driving and either scoring, passing out to an open guy that's a good shooter or drawing a foul?

Really?

Once again. The defense would take that all day. He could shoot 30 and make 10 every game and the D still would much rather him do that then what he does now. Averaging 1 point per possession is a step back for Giannis (actually it'd be a step back for like the top 15 scorers in the league)


Sent from my SM-G892A using RealGM mobile app

You're oblivious to exeggaration aren't you. Also you don't realize or willfully ignore what goes into Giannis shooting wide open 3's early in the shot clock. No turnovers. Not on Giannis nor on his teammates trying to create for him. No offensive fouls. No transition opportunities for the opposing team. No strain on Giannis body. This much more than ppp.

Turnovers and offensive fouls are factored into points per possession. I didnt ignore nothing. 1 ppp is a step back for Giannis (although you are ignoring that it results no added fatigue or added fouls for the opposition)

ONCE AGAIN. We've seen Giannis shoot 3s at a 30+ percent clip. IT DID NOTHING.

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It's included in TS%. It's obviously not included in shooting percentages.

And sure it changed stuff. For example in the Celtics series Morris (?) bit on a pump fake and Giannis got a free drive to the rim. In the game versus the 76ers he got ignored at first and bombed away. Ultimately the 76ers adjusted. It also allows to increase his usage without putting further strain on his body. It also changed how teams defended him at the end of the shot clock situations cause suddenly your bottleneck is slightly less efficient shot than you'd normally get.

Anyway you either think Giannis shooting from 3 is a bad shot so he shouldn't take any 3's or it's a good shot and then he should always take them. There is no in between. And if he gets to even 30% when letting it fly it's a good shot. No question about it.

[Badgerlander]

I thought at the beginning of last season that we had the worst roster of guards among playoff probable teams. Adding a 3rd starting caliber guard in Hill was huge at the deadline. I think Wes can still defend at the nba level but I don’t look at him as starting caliber and Bledsoe and Hill are injury risks. We are putting a lot of eggs in the DDV basket atm

[Badgerlander]

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[emunney]

I thought at the beginning of last season that we had the worst roster of guards among playoff probable teams. Adding a 3rd starting caliber guard in Hill was huge at the deadline. I think Wes can still defend at the nba level but I don’t look at him as starting caliber and Bledsoe and Hill are injury risks. We are putting a lot of eggs in the DDV basket atm

We definitely are putting a lot on DDV and Brown to step up, but sometimes guys have to step up. Most guys don't have a full year of playing great before they get an opportunity -- they just get one because the coaches think they're ready. It's not a foregone conclusion that's the case with our guys as there's still plenty of offseason to go, but I personally would rather give DDV a shot than anybody who's left out there who'd seem likely to sign with us, unless there's a trade out there I'm not seeing.

[bucksfansince88]

Lowe made an interesting point about Bledsoe. Said that he wonders if the Bucks still would have signed him to an extension if they waited until the offseason and witnessed yet another Bledsoe playoff dud. Seems like he thought they wouldn't have.

EDIT: 75 minutes in

Bledsoe over Brogdon is a choice our franchise made that deserves detailed analysis as we move forward.

Completely agree, the timing of everything gives off the illusion that we picked Middleton over Brogdon but the moment Bledsoe signed that extension is when Malcolm decided he was out imo

[Chuck Diesel]

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Chad Forcier has been around forever, surprised he’s only 46. Long time Spurs guy, bounced around a bit lately. Wonder if this means we’re relocating someone currently on the staff to the Herd.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Think you have to take into account who was coaching before declaring Brogdon a “failure at point guard” three weeks into the 17-18 season.

I don't think any coach can make up for the physical and skill limitations he has at the point guard position.

[Badgerlander]

Read on Twitter

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Chad Forcier has been around forever, surprised he’s only 46. Long time Spurs guy, bounced around a bit lately. Wonder if this means we’re relocating someone currently on the staff to the Herd.

I’m assuming he’s our new get back coach with Jenkins coaching the Griz