Statistical proof of LeBron’s HORRIFIC defense

[markjay]

These stats are facts when taking into account LeBron in defensive situations. They are also cherry-picked specific situations. They're also an example of how stats can be used to tell lies.

LeBron is a talented defender when he wants to be, I'm not arguing that even a little bit.

What I've bolded shows him in situations where he's already back on defense. What LeBron has done a significant (noticable) percentage of the time is not get back on defense at all. These numbers don't talk about transition defense at all, which is LeBron's achilles heal in terms of effort. Sure he'll get a chase down block in a playoff game here and there. But if it's the regular season, especially the first 2/3 of the season, you can't rely on him to be present defensively, especially in transition.

Additionally, talking the numbers above, when he IS back and set on defense, 20%, 27%, 30%, and 43% aren't as impressive as you may be giving him credit for. LeBron has the mind and body to be much better than 1 out of every 5 guys in the league at defense. League stats take into account bench players, rookies, and fringe starters, and specialists that can't play D very well. I would hope in this league of hundreds that he'd be better that the next 20 (1/20) or next 50 (1/50) or more guys (top 5% or top 2%), if he is going to be thought of as an elite defender. The numbers you presented show that his talent combined with lack of effort skews numbers from what he should be to lesser numbers in the teens, twenties, or worse, percentage wise.

The frustrations with LeBron's D is the lack of effort getting back, where he prefers to walk or talk to a ref. I don't see transition defensive stats anywhere in your post. Very important as on any given night most teams miss over 50% of their shots. Additionally when the team is back on D, he can be just as lazy in defending, and I think the numbers you provided, when taking into account his great potential as a defender, support that.

This is why folks rag on LeBron's "defense" or lack there of. And that is without even discussing the effect it has on team moral and cohesion when one guy chooses not to get back (talking to ref or just walking) or when he doesn't make the switch because he is conceding the play. These are more difficult arguments to make, but just sticking with the numbers you provided there's enough there to see he's not doing all he can defensively. He coasts.

Your post is honestly all talk and no substance. Please give me some measurable data to prove Lebron "does not get back on D"

There is also a difference between not doing all you can defensively and still not being s negative defender.

He is good enough on D to not give 100% and when he does give effort it is very impactful. There are more than these so called "cherry picked stats" that have already been mentioned. So for example, if he gives effort only 70% of the time and impacts the game on D at 90% effeciency. He is better than someone who gives 100% effort and is only 50% efficient.

Eye test is a horrible form of judgement for a number of reasons and is even worse so on Defense. We often notice the bad 10 times before we remember the good.

So there's this website called Youtube, it's really cool you should check it out, you can type key words in the search engine like say for example "Lebron bad defense" and it will give you examples of him not getting back on defense. They're not all Lebrons 'fault' even when he's the one left standing looking around, but it isn't difficult to see the lack of effort just from last season, and you can see it in the finals against the Warriors too as he didn't bother on so many plays in transition D

Watch on YouTube

People repeatedly use that Anthony Bennett clip of him walking around to show lack of effort, is Lebron vs the Grizzlies in this really any better?

Watch on YouTube

There are plenty more but I don't think you can just ignore the eye test, you can't just disregard what is obvious to any knowledgeable fan watching the game, the effort is questionable and the defensive assignments are often to give himself a break so he can give 100% on offense

Watch on YouTube

I'll bet you could find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having bad or lazy defensive possessions. Just like you could probably find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having great defensive possessions. Not sure that proved much.

[homecourtloss]

Top 6% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 10% in defending hand offs
Top 14% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Top 20% in defending off of screens
Top 27% in defending in ISO
Top 30% in post up defense
Top 43% in spot up defense (only defense he was average in)

These stats are facts when taking into account LeBron in defensive situations. They are also cherry-picked specific situations. They're also an example of how stats can be used to tell lies.

The entire first post looked at 1) all of his individual play types defended, 2) all of his shots defended against all opponents in every game, 3) his DRPM, 4) how his team did defensively with and without. Not sure how that’s “cherry picking.” And yes, stats can be used to tell “lies,” but in this case, when all objective measures point to him being a positive defender, not sure what lie is being told.

LeBron is a talented defender when he wants to be, I'm not arguing that even a little bit.

What I've bolded shows him in situations where he's already back on defense. What LeBron has done a significant (noticable) percentage of the time is not get back on defense at all. These numbers don't talk about transition defense at all, which is LeBron's achilles heal in terms of effort. Sure he'll get a chase down block in a playoff game here and there. But if it's the regular season, especially the first 2/3 of the season, you can't rely on him to be present defensively, especially in transition.

Until I can see objective criteria that show Lebron’s transition defense being an overall detriment to his team (don’t see it available anywhere unless someone has charted it), I have to look at corroborating evidence. But here’s something to consider: the Lakers had the 12th best defense in the NBA in 2019 per BKREF, 13th per NBA.com (.2 points away from 11th, #3 defense in November, #10 defense in December, #10 defense overall until Lebron’s injury) AND the Lakers defense was BETTER with LeBron on court. IF Lebron’s transition defense was so bad, how come the Lakers’ defense was BETTER with him ON Court? Additionally, up until the the injury when the Lakers had a top 10 defense, the Lakers’ defense was slightly better with LeBron on court. Did his other defense make up for a “significant (noticeable) of time” he didn’t get back on defense?

Additionally, talking the numbers above, when he IS back and set on defense, 20%, 27%, 30%, and 43% aren't as impressive as you may be giving him credit for. LeBron has the mind and body to be much better than 1 out of every 5 guys in the league at defense. League stats take into account bench players, rookies, and fringe starters, and specialists that can't play D very well. I would hope in this league of hundreds that he'd be better that the next 20 (1/20) or next 50 (1/50) or more guys (top 5% or top 2%), if he is going to be thought of as an elite defender. The numbers you presented show that his talent combined with lack of effort skews numbers from what he should be to lesser numbers in the teens, twenties, or worse, percentage wise.

It doesn’t work that way. Being in the top 20% is very difficult to do, regardless of his “mind and body.” You can’t expect the #1 offensive option who’s 34 years old to also be the absolute best defender because he has the “mind and body” to do so. You have to compare him to his peers. On top of that, LeBron’s the only player whom I searched for to be in the top 43% of all play types. Is what PG13 or Kawhi or RoCo or Roberson or Tony Allen done defensively also “not that impressive”? Please tell me whom you find impressive and living up to his defensive potential.

PG13
—Bottom 16% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
—Bottom 27% in defending off of screens

Kawhi
—Bottom 34% in defending off of screens
—Top 32% defending pick and roll ball handler—is that also not impressive because he, too, has the “mind and body” to be better than this?
—Kawhi 2016: Bottom 31% in defending off of screens

Giannis
—Top 30% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
—Top 44% in defending hand offs
—Top 44% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
—Bottom 32% in defending off of screen

RoCo, 2018

Bottom 49% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
Top 34% in defending hand offs
Bottom 13% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
Bottom 42% in defending off of screens

KD
—Bottom 27% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
—Top 41% in defending hand offs
—Bottom 10% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
—Bottom 32% in defending off of screens

Roberson, 2018
—Top 42% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
—Top 17% in defending hand offs
—Bottom 46% in defending the roll man in pick and roll
—Top 27% in defending off of screens

Tony Allen, 2016
—Bottom 47% in defending the pick and roll ball handler
—bottom 17% in defending in ISO
—Top 30% in defending spot ups
—Top 43% in defending off of screens

The frustrations with LeBron's D is the lack of effort getting back, where he prefers to walk or talk to a ref. I don't see transition defensive stats anywhere in your post. Very important as on any given night most teams miss over 50% of their shots. Additionally when the team is back on D, he can be just as lazy in defending, and I think the numbers you provided, when taking into account his great potential as a defender, support that.

Individual transition numbers aren’t available. The Lakers as a whole weren’t good in transition defense. We do know that the Lakers were better defensively with LeBron on court so IF it were he who was causing the bad transition defense overall, it doesn’t show up in any other metric unless he was overwhelmingly making up for it other ways defensively.

These are more difficult arguments to make, but just sticking with the numbers you provided there's enough there to see he's not doing all he can defensively. He coasts.

Ok, what are those arguments objectively speaking? People on this thread (not necessarily you) went from “He’s awful defensively,” to “in certain situations he can look good,” to “these stats don’t show everything,” “what in this X Y or Z case,” to “he doesn’t try enough” to “he’s not doing all he can do.”

IF he’s been a detriment defensively then somewhere it would show up (team is worse with him on court, people whom he defends score easily, he doesn’t contest enough shots, on certain types he’s bad, his DRPM would show it, etc.), but it doesn’t. You cannot expect a 34 year old #1 option, offense creator to also be the defensive anchor (of which he was for most of his career). Being a plus defender is all someone can ask of him of which he was.

Please find me another poor defender in your opinion who also:

—Has a top 10% DRPM
—His team is better defensively with him on court
—Opponents shoot worse agaisnt him than they do the rest of the league on average
—Is top 27% in FIVE DIFFERENT play types.

OR even find me a poor defender who has a positive DRPM, his team is better even slightly defensively, is top 27% in two play types.

[RakimAbdulJabar]

I'll bet you could find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having bad or lazy defensive possessions. Just like you could probably find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having great defensive possessions. Not sure that proved much.

Sure you can find examples of every player that make them look like good or bad defenders, but when you start to get numerous examples from the same season/s it doesn't bode well for anyone wanting to argue the effort is there. When it's not just miscommunication but a question of effort it's fair to point it out in a thread that's making out like he's a great defender.

I've only skimmed through this thread but I believe most people are making the same point i.e. it's a question of effort

[dho4ever]

These stats are facts when taking into account LeBron in defensive situations. They are also cherry-picked specific situations. They're also an example of how stats can be used to tell lies.

LeBron is a talented defender when he wants to be, I'm not arguing that even a little bit.

What I've bolded shows him in situations where he's already back on defense. What LeBron has done a significant (noticable) percentage of the time is not get back on defense at all. These numbers don't talk about transition defense at all, which is LeBron's achilles heal in terms of effort. Sure he'll get a chase down block in a playoff game here and there. But if it's the regular season, especially the first 2/3 of the season, you can't rely on him to be present defensively, especially in transition.

Additionally, talking the numbers above, when he IS back and set on defense, 20%, 27%, 30%, and 43% aren't as impressive as you may be giving him credit for. LeBron has the mind and body to be much better than 1 out of every 5 guys in the league at defense. League stats take into account bench players, rookies, and fringe starters, and specialists that can't play D very well. I would hope in this league of hundreds that he'd be better that the next 20 (1/20) or next 50 (1/50) or more guys (top 5% or top 2%), if he is going to be thought of as an elite defender. The numbers you presented show that his talent combined with lack of effort skews numbers from what he should be to lesser numbers in the teens, twenties, or worse, percentage wise.

The frustrations with LeBron's D is the lack of effort getting back, where he prefers to walk or talk to a ref. I don't see transition defensive stats anywhere in your post. Very important as on any given night most teams miss over 50% of their shots. Additionally when the team is back on D, he can be just as lazy in defending, and I think the numbers you provided, when taking into account his great potential as a defender, support that.

This is why folks rag on LeBron's "defense" or lack there of. And that is without even discussing the effect it has on team moral and cohesion when one guy chooses not to get back (talking to ref or just walking) or when he doesn't make the switch because he is conceding the play. These are more difficult arguments to make, but just sticking with the numbers you provided there's enough there to see he's not doing all he can defensively. He coasts.

Your post is honestly all talk and no substance. Please give me some measurable data to prove Lebron "does not get back on D"

There is also a difference between not doing all you can defensively and still not being s negative defender.

He is good enough on D to not give 100% and when he does give effort it is very impactful. There are more than these so called "cherry picked stats" that have already been mentioned. So for example, if he gives effort only 70% of the time and impacts the game on D at 90% effeciency. He is better than someone who gives 100% effort and is only 50% efficient.

Eye test is a horrible form of judgement for a number of reasons and is even worse so on Defense. We often notice the bad 10 times before we remember the good.

So there's this website called Youtube, it's really cool you should check it out, you can type key words in the search engine like say for example "Lebron bad defense" and it will give you examples of him not getting back on defense. They're not all Lebrons 'fault' even when he's the one left standing looking around, but it isn't difficult to see the lack of effort just from last season, and you can see it in the finals against the Warriors too as he didn't bother on so many plays in transition D

Watch on YouTube

People repeatedly use that Anthony Bennett clip of him walking around to show lack of effort, is Lebron vs the Grizzlies in this really any better?

Watch on YouTube

There are plenty more but I don't think you can just ignore the eye test, you can't just disregard what is obvious to any knowledgeable fan watching the game, the effort is questionable and the defensive assignments are often to give himself a break so he can give 100% on offense

Watch on YouTube

I can probably make a video called "Curry bad shooter" and have clips of him missing wide open 3s. Would that make you believe that curry is a bad shooter?

Pro tip: don't believe everything you see on the internet.

[Dupp]

But YouTube said so!

[homecourtloss]

Your post is honestly all talk and no substance. Please give me some measurable data to prove Lebron "does not get back on D"

There is also a difference between not doing all you can defensively and still not being s negative defender.

He is good enough on D to not give 100% and when he does give effort it is very impactful. There are more than these so called "cherry picked stats" that have already been mentioned. So for example, if he gives effort only 70% of the time and impacts the game on D at 90% effeciency. He is better than someone who gives 100% effort and is only 50% efficient.

Eye test is a horrible form of judgement for a number of reasons and is even worse so on Defense. We often notice the bad 10 times before we remember the good.

So there's this website called Youtube, it's really cool you should check it out, you can type key words in the search engine like say for example "Lebron bad defense" and it will give you examples of him not getting back on defense. They're not all Lebrons 'fault' even when he's the one left standing looking around, but it isn't difficult to see the lack of effort just from last season, and you can see it in the finals against the Warriors too as he didn't bother on so many plays in transition D

Watch on YouTube

People repeatedly use that Anthony Bennett clip of him walking around to show lack of effort, is Lebron vs the Grizzlies in this really any better?

Watch on YouTube

There are plenty more but I don't think you can just ignore the eye test, you can't just disregard what is obvious to any knowledgeable fan watching the game, the effort is questionable and the defensive assignments are often to give himself a break so he can give 100% on offense

Watch on YouTube

I can probably make a video called "Curry bad shooter" and have clips of him missing wide open 3s. Would that make you believe that curry is a bad shooter?

Pro tip: don't believe everything you see on the internet.

Exactly. Synergy data captured EVERY defensive play he made over EVERY game last year. DRPM and DRAPM adjusted his defensive impact while taking into consideration his teammates’ defensive impact and every single minute was factored in. Unless a YouTube video shows every single play OR someone’s eye-test remembers every single play, then it doesn’t capture everything.

Obviously Curry is a GOAT type shooter, but the objective NUMBERS also corroborate this. The numbers we have say LeBron was a plus defender and showing some plays on Yourube or remembering some plays cannot explain how a good overall team defense was BETTER with him on court, how opponents shot WORSE when he defended them, how he was in the top 27% of FIVE DIFFERENT defensive play types, how he had a top 10% DRPM.

THE VERY SAME numbers ALSO show thet he was a terrible defender who didn’t try in 2018 with the Cavs, but show thet he was a strong plus defender in 2017, and all-time defender in 2016, a strong plus defender in 2015. We don’t have all the numbers from 2014, but those we have of 2014 show he was a weaker defender (2014 and 2018 have thet in common).

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

LeBron??? OH yeah, isn't he that old guy who plays for the Lakers? Didn't he used to get a lot of media attention, but was replaced by that guy with the beard? Are people still taking about this Lebron dude?

How many years after Kobe's retirement was Kobe still top ten in player mentions at RealGM? Whatever it was LeBron is a going to be talked about longer than Kobe was.

LeBron will stop being a top 5 player soon, maybe even this year. Father Time gets everybody.

[dho4ever]

Also on the lines of eye test, consider the fact that you really dislike Curry and have this narrative in your mind that Curry is a bad 3pt shooter.

Along those biases its actually not hard to believe that Curry is a bad shooter if you don't take into account stats and what it means. In other words, Curry is a 43% 3 pt shooter, which is statistically above average. So if you watch a typical game, you're going see him take 11 3s and miss about 6 of them. If you were really biased you could say, why is this guy missing 6 threes in a game and chucking. He's terrible.

[Richfield]

I'll bet you could find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having bad or lazy defensive possessions. Just like you could probably find cherry-picked examples of almost all NBA players having great defensive possessions. Not sure that proved much.

Everybody's doing it? That's what you're going with?

I left out "bad" from the bold because everybody makes mistakes.

But most ("almost all") players can't afford to get caught on tape being as lazy as LeBron has been getting back in recent years. There's a reason other pros, analysts, and TV people are calling it out. It sticks out like a sore thumb. In the first half of the season it's almost on a nightly basis. That's what gets those who are watching frustrated with it. This isn't coming from nowhere, watch the video again.

LeBron knows he can get away with it. That he's LeBron and it's not going to cost him anything personally. He's still going to get his max and minutes, etc because of all the other things he can do. But all those other things are not the debate here. It's his defense and how it's been increasingly MIA in recent years. Still has the talent to do it, but chooses not to more and more often. If you're still denying this I don't know what else to tell you or show you. Apparently LeBron being good at those other things makes lazy D okay, looks like he's won you over with this idea. Not much else to say.

[hoosierdaddy34]

There is no doubt he is still good when he is locked in. What happens so often, and you will see it a lot when watching Laker games, is a guy will be wide open on the perimeter. LeBron won’t even attempt to close out or disrupt, he will stand and watch. Since he isn’t within 5 feet of the play, because he chose to stand and watch, he isn’t credited for the defense on the play. It protects those numbers for him a bit.

[Richfield]

Exactly. Synergy data captured EVERY defensive play he made over EVERY game last year. DRPM and DRAPM adjusted his defensive impact while taking into consideration his teammates’ defensive impact and every single minute was factored in. Unless a YouTube video shows every single play OR someone’s eye-test remembers every single play, then it doesn’t capture everything.

Obviously Curry is a GOAT type shooter, but the objective NUMBERS also corroborate this. The numbers we have say LeBron was a plus defender and showing some plays on Yourube or remembering some plays cannot explain how a good overall team defense was BETTER with him on court, how opponents shot WORSE when he defended them, how he was in the top 27% of FIVE DIFFERENT defensive play types, how he had a top 10% DRPM.

THE VERY SAME numbers ALSO show thet he was a terrible defender who didn’t try in 2018 with the Cavs, but show thet he was a strong plus defender in 2017, and all-time defender in 2016, a strong plus defender in 2015. We don’t have all the numbers from 2014, but those we have of 2014 show he was a weaker defender (2014 and 2018 have thet in common).

Shooting is a bad comparison statistically, because it requires an attempt to initiate the logging of the data, make or miss.

What I highlighted in bold is exactly the point, it shows the defensive plays he's made. That would probably be out of defensive plays he's attempted. So far the argument falls in line with your shooting analogy.

What you're failing to acknowledge is the defensive plays where he fails to make an attempt. Those aren't going to enter the system if he's not attempting, just like you don't include the times Curry passes the ball in his FGA's. He didn't make an attempt.

If he's on the other end of the court for example, he's not going to be calculated for a one on one situation or a pick and roll situation or close out D. He's not in the play. Therefore the data isn't going to reflect those lack of attempts. When he makes attempts, he's a great defender. That's where we all agree. What you're failing to acknowledge is that there are an increasing number of plays per game where he fails to make any attempt, because he's out of the play. The numbers quoted in your OP don't acknowledge those plays.

That's why relying too heavily on stats doesn't show the full picture. You must add your eyes to the equation to see when those statistics apply and when they don't. I can't put any more clear than this. If you're still saying eyes don't matter and those statistics are all that matter, I can't help you understand what you refuse to acknowledge.

[VanWest82]

I think it can be true that Lebron is still a terrific defender most of the time when he's directly involved in the play and also that he takes a lot of plays off (based on eye test) where he forces his teammates to do more because he isn't getting back in transition or is forcing unnecessary switches because he's tired, etc. Lakers defense was only +1.6 per 100 better with Lebron on the court. You'd think someone with such gaudy individual defensive statistics combined with his obvious impact on the offense (i.e. more makes = more chances to get back and set your defense) would have a larger overall impact on the defense.

[Arman_tanzarian]

In 821 minutes together the LeBron/Lonzo combo posted a DRtg of 106.12 — around a top 5 defense when together.

LeBron with Lonzo OFF, Drtg of 108.68 (2.56 PP100 worse than when playing together)

Lonzo with LeBron OFF, Drtg of 123.48 (17.36 PP100 worse than when playing together)

Summary: Together they were playing well, playing pretty good defense until injuries happened. However, Zo needed LeBron way more on defense than LeBron needing Zo. Lakers defense without Zo and LeBron ON was still pretty okay. This is why I said, instead of making stuff up in your head — go look up some evidence to back up your claim.

Numbers and data and empirical proof is literally here for people to look at and it doesn’t seem to matter at all. It’s truly unbelievable.

Zo did just fine before Lebron on defense his rookie year it's just funny how far Lebron stans manipulate, skew stats, and twist themselves into pretzels defending Lebrons poor defense last season.

Those numbers posted aren't even right. I'd like to give more data but Nbawowry is slow as f today so I am not going to bother.

They are WOWY data. Use this site it's much faster. https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba

I am only using games where both guys played in; circumstances change when either guy is missing a sizable chunk of games.

[Arman_tanzarian]

I think it can be true that Lebron is still a terrific defender most of the time when he's directly involved in the play and also that he takes a lot of plays off (based on eye test) where he forces his teammates to do more because he isn't getting back in transition or forcing unnecessary switches because he's tired, etc. Lakers defense was only +1.6 per 100 better with Lebron on the court. You'd think someone with such gaudy individual defensive statistics combined with his obvious impact on the offense (i.e. more makes = more chances to get back and set your defense) would have a larger overall impact on the defense.

I think for stretches he can be a pretty good defender still. I think it's obvious he is nowhere near 2016 Playoffs LeBron anymore. The notion that he is a poor defender is purely based on the narrative around a few bad highlights. I watched a full season of Kawhi and you can pull the same highlights with him. And Kawhi is still an elite defender, but even he took multiple games off on that end for us.

[JoseRizal]

Your post is honestly all talk and no substance. Please give me some measurable data to prove Lebron "does not get back on D"

There is also a difference between not doing all you can defensively and still not being s negative defender.

He is good enough on D to not give 100% and when he does give effort it is very impactful. There are more than these so called "cherry picked stats" that have already been mentioned. So for example, if he gives effort only 70% of the time and impacts the game on D at 90% effeciency. He is better than someone who gives 100% effort and is only 50% efficient.

Eye test is a horrible form of judgement for a number of reasons and is even worse so on Defense. We often notice the bad 10 times before we remember the good.

So there's this website called Youtube, it's really cool you should check it out, you can type key words in the search engine like say for example "Lebron bad defense" and it will give you examples of him not getting back on defense. They're not all Lebrons 'fault' even when he's the one left standing looking around, but it isn't difficult to see the lack of effort just from last season, and you can see it in the finals against the Warriors too as he didn't bother on so many plays in transition D

Watch on YouTube

People repeatedly use that Anthony Bennett clip of him walking around to show lack of effort, is Lebron vs the Grizzlies in this really any better?

Watch on YouTube

There are plenty more but I don't think you can just ignore the eye test, you can't just disregard what is obvious to any knowledgeable fan watching the game, the effort is questionable and the defensive assignments are often to give himself a break so he can give 100% on offense

Watch on YouTube

I can probably make a video called "Curry bad shooter" and have clips of him missing wide open 3s. Would that make you believe that curry is a bad shooter?

Pro tip: don't believe everything you see on the internet.

I think you’re using a wrong example to support your argument.

Great shooters are measured by percentages so it’s easy to choose/cherry pick missed shots as opposed to his career 43.6% 3 point accuracy. In defense however, there are no off nights. Barring any injury or decline due to age, you can consistently be an effective defender if you so choose. That’s why you always hear the mantra “Offense win games, Defense wins championships”.

P.S.
I’ve never seen a similar type of video questioning Michael Jordan’s inability to defend.

[spikeslovechild]

Numbers and data and empirical proof is literally here for people to look at and it doesn’t seem to matter at all. It’s truly unbelievable.

Zo did just fine before Lebron on defense his rookie year it's just funny how far Lebron stans manipulate, skew stats, and twist themselves into pretzels defending Lebrons poor defense last season.

Those numbers posted aren't even right. I'd like to give more data but Nbawowry is slow as f today so I am not going to bother.

They are WOWY data. Use this site it's much faster. https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba

I am only using games where both guys played in; circumstances change when either guy is missing a sizable chunk of games.

Which was my point.

Lebron was given easy assignments earlier and after Lonzo went down struggled to defend quality guards and Walton could no longer put him on the easiest assignment.

You can see my point earlier about how stats are being skewed you made no mention at the time of your post that you were dicing up his on/off stats in such a way.

In any case I know what I saw once Lonzo went down. It will be interesting to see how Lebron plays defense this year some of his problems on defense were because of decline but much of it was just compete level. He has a deeper team. He has AD. There is no reason for him to take entire series off on defense hanging out in the paint waiting to run back rebounds anymore.

Then again they never really replaced Lonzo either and Green is getting up there in age at 32.

[RakimAbdulJabar]

I can probably make a video called "Curry bad shooter" and have clips of him missing wide open 3s. Would that make you believe that curry is a bad shooter?

Pro tip: don't believe everything you see on the internet.

You can’t be serious? There’s a huge difference between missing shots and not putting in effort.

Pro tip: One of these is completely controllable

[RakimAbdulJabar]

So typical to see certain people not willing to accept YouTube, as if that footage has been made up.

It’s almost as if they’re incapable of understanding what they’re watching and definitely incapable of reading.

Posters are being VERY clear in this thread by repeatedly saying it’s an issue of effort that’s being questioned, yet even with numerous examples of terrible lack of effort, a few just want to stick their head in the sand and deny it

Then again certain posters change their favourite team almost every season so it’s hard to take their opinion seriously

Simple question to hopefully end my participation in this pointless back and forth;

Do you think Lebrons effort on defense is acceptable?

[scrabbarista]

All I know is LeBron was robbed of his Shaqtin' a Fool MVP Award this season. Such a travesty. The voters should have their rights revoked!

[Dupp]

Lebron must get a stop every single defensive possession because YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube