Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[dckingsfan]

Well, no not a candidate. I can call them whatever I want though.

This is America - of course you can. But sometimes our actions have unintended consequences

Indeed. That's how we ended up with a POS in the White House. I'm done playing peacemaker. I've seen enough from the "other half" to know we will never see eye to eye or share common ground. I no longer care for their "plight" or their issues. I look out only for those of like mind. I doubt care about how they vote or want it. There's more of me than they are of them. 3 million + and growing. They are trending in the wrong direction and I don't need to cater to their concerns. See you in 2020.

If that tears apart the fabric of this country so be it. It needed to happen. Let the stones fall where they may.

It wont' tear anything apart - we just get 4 more years of Trump and the courts shifted even further to the right. But the country will survive. It will just take longer to recover.

[Pointgod]

Hell yes!

Only if you wanted him reelected

...because we failed so miserably in the midterms?

I call these people what they are and if Trump gets reelected, this is just what America is. A farce, a lie, and no moral standing in the world. American "Exceptionalism" was always a lie anyway.

Yeah, it's pretty laughable. There is literally zero reason to think the Dems need to convert a single Trump supporter in order to win in 2020 but this talking point keeps getting trotted out as if it isn't 100% wrong.

I think you’re off here. The midterms showed that Democrats need to convert some Trump supporters, they had districts that had been solidly Republican or voted for Trump turn blue. However I believe this is much more over stated in the media. They key is to run on things with a broad appeal like healthcare without compromising Democratic values. This is different than catering to Republicans or Trump voters which is guaranteed to fail.

I laugh though at the people that act like someone is twisting their arm to vote for a racist, dangerous buffoon like Trump. I call it the Popper theory, “Hey if Democrats don’t cater to my every desire and whim I’ll be forced to vote for a racist moron that goes against all my principles and what I supposedly stand for”.

[dckingsfan]

...because we failed so miserably in the midterms?

I call these people what they are and if Trump gets reelected, this is just what America is. A farce, a lie, and no moral standing in the world. American "Exceptionalism" was always a lie anyway.

Yeah, it's pretty laughable. There is literally zero reason to think the Dems need to convert a single Trump supporter in order to win in 2020 but this talking point keeps getting trotted out as if it isn't 100% wrong.

I think you’re off here. The midterms showed that Democrats need to convert some Trump supporters, they had districts that had been solidly Republican or voted for Trump turn blue. However I believe this is much more over stated in the media. They key is to run on things with a broad appeal like healthcare without compromising Democratic values. This is different than catering to Republicans or Trump voters which is guaranteed to fail.

I laugh though at the people that act like someone is twisting their arm to vote for a racist, dangerous buffoon like Trump. I call it the Popper theory, “Hey if Democrats don’t cater to my every desire and whim I’ll be forced to vote for a racist moron that goes against all my principles and what I supposedly stand for”.

Then you missed my point. Two different things. Thing one is not motivating them to vote. Thing two is trying to win them over - and we agree there, that just isn't going to happen.

Same way that the Rs suppressed (politically not physically) D votes in swing states. We need to do the same. We shouldn't motivate them to vote by labeling them deplorables and rubbing Trump into their faces. Let them just move to the background and let that mistake be erased.

[Pointgod]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

Can you point to a Democrat that’s come out and said explicitly “I’m for open borders!” This is a Republican talking point and propaganda that you keep repeating.

As for the healthcare the Republicans are literally trying to destroy the healthcare system by getting rid of Obamacare. Literally doing nothing and leaving it as it is would be better than the Republican alternative.

If American voters could be this easily swayed to vote for Trump based on these two topics then they deserve a lot less credit than I was giving them.

[Pointgod]

This is America - of course you can. But sometimes our actions have unintended consequences

Indeed. That's how we ended up with a POS in the White House. I'm done playing peacemaker. I've seen enough from the "other half" to know we will never see eye to eye or share common ground. I no longer care for their "plight" or their issues. I look out only for those of like mind. I doubt care about how they vote or want it. There's more of me than they are of them. 3 million + and growing. They are trending in the wrong direction and I don't need to cater to their concerns. See you in 2020.

If that tears apart the fabric of this country so be it. It needed to happen. Let the stones fall where they may.

It wont' tear anything apart - we just get 4 more years of Trump and the courts shifted even further to the right. But the country will survive. It will just take longer to recover.

Haha that’s cute you think the country will survive. It’s never swinging back. Remember 2020 is a census year which means Republicans from the federal to municipal level will cheat, lie and steal to ensure their stranglehold on power. You’ll get a country that looks more like Russia, ruled by corporations and Oligarchs with minimal freedoms.

[JWizmentality]

This is America - of course you can. But sometimes our actions have unintended consequences

Indeed. That's how we ended up with a POS in the White House. I'm done playing peacemaker. I've seen enough from the "other half" to know we will never see eye to eye or share common ground. I no longer care for their "plight" or their issues. I look out only for those of like mind. I doubt care about how they vote or want it. There's more of me than they are of them. 3 million + and growing. They are trending in the wrong direction and I don't need to cater to their concerns. See you in 2020.

If that tears apart the fabric of this country so be it. It needed to happen. Let the stones fall where they may.

It wont' tear anything apart - we just get 4 more years of Trump and the courts shifted even further to the right. But the country will survive. It will just take longer to recover.

I guess we'll see won't we.

[Ruzious]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

The bolded part is particularly important to realize, imo. We don't have to bash her, but we have to make it clear that she does not speak for the Democratic party.

[dckingsfan]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

Can you point to a Democrat that’s come out and said explicitly “I’m for open borders!” This is a Republican talking point and propaganda that you keep repeating.

As for the healthcare the Republicans are literally trying to destroy the healthcare system by getting rid of Obamacare. Literally doing nothing and leaving it as it is would be better than the Republican alternative.

If American voters could be this easily swayed to vote for Trump based on these two topics then they deserve a lot less credit than I was giving them.

Did you not watch the debates? Have you not been keeping up with peoples opinions on keeping their current healthcare?

[dckingsfan]

Indeed. That's how we ended up with a POS in the White House. I'm done playing peacemaker. I've seen enough from the "other half" to know we will never see eye to eye or share common ground. I no longer care for their "plight" or their issues. I look out only for those of like mind. I doubt care about how they vote or want it. There's more of me than they are of them. 3 million + and growing. They are trending in the wrong direction and I don't need to cater to their concerns. See you in 2020.

If that tears apart the fabric of this country so be it. It needed to happen. Let the stones fall where they may.

It wont' tear anything apart - we just get 4 more years of Trump and the courts shifted even further to the right. But the country will survive. It will just take longer to recover.

Haha that’s cute you think the country will survive. It’s never swinging back. Remember 2020 is a census year which means Republicans from the federal to municipal level will cheat, lie and steal to ensure their stranglehold on power. You’ll get a country that looks more like Russia, ruled by corporations and Oligarchs with minimal freedoms.

Meh. America is pretty resilient that way. We will get back to where we need to be over time. It might just take longer...

My 1/2 cent.

[dckingsfan]

...

What part of the country do you live in? Just curious...

[JWizmentality]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

The bolded part is particularly important to realize, imo. We don't have to bash her, but we have to make it clear that she does not speak for the Democratic party.

AOC is unpopular among uneducated white people. Color me surprised. Democrats falling for the same boogie man campaign they ran against the Clintons. Continue to ignore what she represents. The party will continue to fail.

[Ruzious]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

The bolded part is particularly important to realize, imo. We don't have to bash her, but we have to make it clear that she does not speak for the Democratic party.

AOC is unpopular among uneducated white people. Color me surprised. Democrats falling for the same boogie man campaign they ran against the Clintons. Continue to ignore what she represents. The party will continue to fail.

I think she's super-smart and has great potential, but at this point in her career - as a freshman... she's extremely unrealistic, and she'll probably understand that later in her career. More importantly, the national polls that I've seen - that include all types - from morons to intellectuals - have her popularity at extraordinarily low rates - so it's not just the morons that actively dis-like her. I expect/hope that will change within 9 years, but I doubt it will anytime soon.

[pancakes3]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/453741-dozens-of-catholics-arrested-at-capitol-after-protesting-trump

Read on Twitter

[queridiculo]

Just once I'd like see these officers show some civil courage and refuse to go along with non-sense like this.

[JWizmentality]

The bolded part is particularly important to realize, imo. We don't have to bash her, but we have to make it clear that she does not speak for the Democratic party.

AOC is unpopular among uneducated white people. Color me surprised. Democrats falling for the same boogie man campaign they ran against the Clintons. Continue to ignore what she represents. The party will continue to fail.

I think she's super-smart and has great potential, but at this point in her career - as a freshman... she's extremely unrealistic, and she'll probably understand that later in her career. More importantly, the national polls that I've seen - that include all types - from morons to intellectuals - have her popularity at extraordinarily low rates - so it's not just the morons that actively dis-like her. I expect/hope that will change within 9 years, but I doubt it will anytime soon.

Show me those polls. It's amazing to me how stupid Democrats are. The right wing ran a concerted smear campaign against the democratic freshman before they even arrived in D.C. It was obvious what the game plan was, and just as I said months ago when FoxNews was starting their AOC hit job, she'd reach a point where Democrats would start treating her like Clinton.

I mean seriously. Steve King is still a Senator and we eat our own and fall for this garbage over and over. If Trump is reelected it won't be because of AOC. It will be because of spineless thinking like this.

[Ruzious]

AOC is unpopular among uneducated white people. Color me surprised. Democrats falling for the same boogie man campaign they ran against the Clintons. Continue to ignore what she represents. The party will continue to fail.

I think she's super-smart and has great potential, but at this point in her career - as a freshman... she's extremely unrealistic, and she'll probably understand that later in her career. More importantly, the national polls that I've seen - that include all types - from morons to intellectuals - have her popularity at extraordinarily low rates - so it's not just the morons that actively dis-like her. I expect/hope that will change within 9 years, but I doubt it will anytime soon.

Show me those polls.

I'm too lazy. Show me one that doesn't have her popularity extremely low. Yahoo had one this AM showing she's very unpopular.

[gtn130]

But young voters and Hispanic and Black voters NEVER vote at the same rate as older voters (throughout the ages). That is a logic error. What you are saying is "we need a miracle to win". We need young voters (especially Hispanic and black voters) that are apathetic to come out and vote and we need this to happen in swing states. And Hillary was a meh candidate that couldn't motivate a kid in a candy store.

Maybe the other side of that same coin - the deplorable comments motivated the other side to come out and vote? Or can you not see how this could be part of the equation? And again - the presidential election isn't a popular vote.

No, the 538 article is referencing registered voters and comparing that turnout to 2012. Registered young nonwhite voters didn't turnout to vote in 2016 relative to how much they were expected to. If that group turns out at a rate more in line with expectations, Democrats do not need to convert a single Trump voter.

That's why Democrats do not ***NEED*** to convert any Trump supporters. Obviously it would be helpful if they do, but it is not the single win condition.

[Ruzious]

AOC is unpopular among uneducated white people. Color me surprised. Democrats falling for the same boogie man campaign they ran against the Clintons. Continue to ignore what she represents. The party will continue to fail.

I think she's super-smart and has great potential, but at this point in her career - as a freshman... she's extremely unrealistic, and she'll probably understand that later in her career. More importantly, the national polls that I've seen - that include all types - from morons to intellectuals - have her popularity at extraordinarily low rates - so it's not just the morons that actively dis-like her. I expect/hope that will change within 9 years, but I doubt it will anytime soon.

Show me those polls. It's amazing to me how stupid Democrats are. The right wing ran a concerted smear campaign against the democratic freshman before they even arrived in D.C. It was obvious what the game plan was, and just as I said months ago when FoxNews was starting their AOC hit job, she'd reach a point where Democrats would start treating her like Clinton.

I mean seriously. Steve King is still a Senator and we eat our own and fall for this garbage over and over. If Trump is reelected it won't be because of AOC. It will be because of spineless thinking like this.

I think you got the wrong people as being spineless.

If Trump wins, I agree it won't be because of AOC, but I don't necessarily agree that it won't be because of her supporters.

[gtn130]

I think you’re off here. The midterms showed that Democrats need to convert some Trump supporters, they had districts that had been solidly Republican or voted for Trump turn blue. However I believe this is much more over stated in the media. They key is to run on things with a broad appeal like healthcare without compromising Democratic values. This is different than catering to Republicans or Trump voters which is guaranteed to fail.

2018 showed that suburban white women rejected Trump, and that allowed Dems to win a bunch of districts they otherwise wouldn't have.

See my post to dckingsfan. In 2016 if registered young nonwhite voters turnout at a rate that's in line with expectations set by previous elections, the Dems win without converting a single Trump supporter. When I say Dems do not ***NEED*** to convert Trump supporters to win in 2020, that's what I mean. They can in theory win the election with only slightly more turnout from specific groups.

[dckingsfan]

Let me put it to you another way. Here is how to "lose" the election. Here is how Trump can win the election.

Lose the election:
Come out strongly for open borders.

Don't have a reasonable plan on healthcare (no private insurance option for example).

The nasty secret of 2016 is that President Trump didn't win the election — Clinton lost it. We could easily do the same thing in 2020 if we insist that Americans must be taught a lesson for their 2016 deplorableness.

Have another motivational candidate like Clinton.

Here is how Trump can win the election:
Make it about AOC - her disapproval rate is way higher than Trump's nationally.

Run on the economy.

It is absolutely about getting those that identify as independents to vote. There just aren't enough die hard - I am only a D to swing the election by themselves.

Can you point to a Democrat that’s come out and said explicitly “I’m for open borders!” This is a Republican talking point and propaganda that you keep repeating.

As for the healthcare the Republicans are literally trying to destroy the healthcare system by getting rid of Obamacare. Literally doing nothing and leaving it as it is would be better than the Republican alternative.

If American voters could be this easily swayed to vote for Trump based on these two topics then they deserve a lot less credit than I was giving them.

Did you not watch the debates? Have you not been keeping up with peoples opinions on keeping their current healthcare?

More on this...

There is a fourth hypothesis. It may be that the Democratic Party would rather lose in a fashion it considers noble than win insincerely.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/07/04/democratic_candidates_arent_on_a_winning_track_140705.html