RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#7 2019-20

[illuminati666]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

[GQ Hot Dog]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

I don't think he belongs on the list, and I won't be voting for him under any circumstances.

[illuminati666]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

I don't think he belongs on the list, and I won't be voting for him under any circumstances.

That's fair if you feel like he should be completely excluded from the list. But he's in it, so that thinking is going to have him voted at like 12-13th best player in the league....which is ridiculous. If he's included in the list the votes should be for how good you think he is, and not be penalized for his injury. Otherwise he shouldn't be on the list at all.

[Kurt Heimlich]

The top 5 is exactly how I'd have it. I'd have put Jokic ahead of AD, and maybe Embiid too. AD/PG/Lillard are close. So Joker is my vote here.

If it's for the 2019-20 season only, then KD probably shouldn't even be on the poll right? Since he almost assuredly won't play this season.

Add: Kemba

I think Durant was included in the poll because it’s not based on predicted 2019-2020 performance but instead on how we would rank the top 25 players in the NBA at the start of the 2019-2020 season. But I’m not sure everybody can see the difference with that. With injured players the best we can do is predict how they will play when they return. It kind of helps to think about it as free agency and what order you would sign them.

By the way if Durant recovers quickly he can possibly start playing as early as February from what I’m hearing. And everybody I’ve seen talk about Durant’s recovery, predicts that after he returns he won’t be affected as much as some other players. This is due to the way Durant’s plays basketball, his conditioning prior to the injury, work ethic, etc.

I'm all for optimism in all walks of life. But from a modern medicine perspective as it relates to the physiological stress of professional sports, KD would be putting himself at significant risk of losing of another year + (or worse) by playing NBA basketball 6 months after tearing his Achilles. And there is no chance the Nets would push him to take such a careless risk either.

[rcc8884]

Add Kemba

[GQ Hot Dog]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

I don't think he belongs on the list, and I won't be voting for him under any circumstances.

That's fair if you feel like he should be completely excluded from the list. But he's in it, so that thinking is going to have him voted at like 12-13th best player in the league....which is ridiculous. If he's included in the list the votes should be for how good you think he is, and not be penalized for his injury. Otherwise he shouldn't be on the list at all.

I don't think he should be on the list and I pointed that out on pick one. He's much better than #7 and so the only way there's justice is if he's not voted into the top 25 at all making it clear that's it's only due to being injured the entire season. Come next year, I'm almost certainly voting for him in the top-3.

[spicy6]

Why is gobert even on this list let alone being voted on right now by 6 or 7 votes so far as the 7th best player in the game thats just ridiculous.

[Bhut Jolokia]

The top 5 is exactly how I'd have it. I'd have put Jokic ahead of AD, and maybe Embiid too. AD/PG/Lillard are close. So Joker is my vote here.

If it's for the 2019-20 season only, then KD probably shouldn't even be on the poll right? Since he almost assuredly won't play this season.

Add: Kemba

I think Durant was included in the poll because it’s not based on predicted 2019-2020 performance but instead on how we would rank the top 25 players in the NBA at the start of the 2019-2020 season. But I’m not sure everybody can see the difference with that. With injured players the best we can do is predict how they will play when they return. It kind of helps to think about it as free agency and what order you would sign them.

By the way if Durant recovers quickly he can possibly start playing as early as February from what I’m hearing. And everybody I’ve seen talk about Durant’s recovery, predicts that after he returns he won’t be affected as much as some other players. This is due to the way Durant’s plays basketball, his conditioning prior to the injury, work ethic, etc.

I'm all for optimism in all walks of life. But from a modern medicine perspective as it relates to the physiological stress of professional sports, KD would be putting himself at significant risk of losing of another year + (or worse) by playing NBA basketball 6 months after tearing his Achilles. And there is no chance the Nets would push him to take such a careless risk either.

Yeah, I agree Durant shouldn’t come back too soon due to the risk, but I don’t think anybody knows exactly what he will do. I think the February timeline was mentioned because Kobe only took 240 days to recover which is close to 8 months. Durant had surgery on I think June 12 (he ruptured Achilles on June 10) so if this is when the recovery begins then 8 months from June would be February. I don’t know why you said 6 months that would be way too early I think. I’m not sure when he started therapy but I saw pics of him rehabbing in the pool today.

[Hal14]

haha oh man, wow..that does not look like an NBA player.

Props to him for being such a great player - despite not looking like one.

Looks more like the chubby kid from The Big Green after he went to college than an NBA star

BTW, I voted for Durant..but immediately started to second guess myself because I remembered how much uncertainty there is around him because of his injury..

[Kurt Heimlich]

I think Durant was included in the poll because it’s not based on predicted 2019-2020 performance but instead on how we would rank the top 25 players in the NBA at the start of the 2019-2020 season. But I’m not sure everybody can see the difference with that. With injured players the best we can do is predict how they will play when they return. It kind of helps to think about it as free agency and what order you would sign them.

By the way if Durant recovers quickly he can possibly start playing as early as February from what I’m hearing. And everybody I’ve seen talk about Durant’s recovery, predicts that after he returns he won’t be affected as much as some other players. This is due to the way Durant’s plays basketball, his conditioning prior to the injury, work ethic, etc.

I'm all for optimism in all walks of life. But from a modern medicine perspective as it relates to the physiological stress of professional sports, KD would be putting himself at significant risk of losing of another year + (or worse) by playing NBA basketball 6 months after tearing his Achilles. And there is no chance the Nets would push him to take such a careless risk either.

Yeah, I agree Durant shouldn’t come back too soon due to the high risk, but I don’t think anybody knows exactly what he will do. I think the February timeline was mentioned because Kobe only took 240 days to recover which is close to 8 months. Durant had surgery on I think June 12 (he ruptured Achilles on June 10) so if this is when the recovery begins then 8 months from June would be February. I don’t know why you said 6 months that would be way too early I think. I’m not sure when he started therapy but I saw pics of him rehabbing in the pool today.

Bad math on my part

8 months as of February 2020 gives him some potential shot at returning for the end of the 2019-20 season, we'll see how it plays out.

[Stone]

Voted KD

Nominate Klay Thompson......and also the fake Klay Thompson.....

[ProfessorJM]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

I don't think he belongs on the list, and I won't be voting for him under any circumstances.

That's fair if you feel like he should be completely excluded from the list. But he's in it, so that thinking is going to have him voted at like 12-13th best player in the league....which is ridiculous. If he's included in the list the votes should be for how good you think he is, and not be penalized for his injury. Otherwise he shouldn't be on the list at all.

I'd rather he be out of the list too, but if he is in the list, I am trying to project what I think he will be as a realistic player in the next year or two as beyond that it's really unfair, and it's kind of unfair to even project now but you try. For me, that's about #7 on this list. I personally think his days as a Top 3 player this and next year are too optimistic.

[a_sensei]

Vote George (Lillard, Jokic, Embiid other candidates)
Nominate Oladipo

[illuminati666]

I don't think he belongs on the list, and I won't be voting for him under any circumstances.

That's fair if you feel like he should be completely excluded from the list. But he's in it, so that thinking is going to have him voted at like 12-13th best player in the league....which is ridiculous. If he's included in the list the votes should be for how good you think he is, and not be penalized for his injury. Otherwise he shouldn't be on the list at all.

I'd rather he be out of the list too, but if he is in the list, I am trying to project what I think he will be as a realistic player in the next year or two as beyond that it's really unfair, and it's kind of unfair to even project now but you try. For me, that's about #7 on this list. I personally think his days as a Top 3 player this and next year are too optimistic.

Disagree. I just feel like you can't assume that especially because of the season he just had. He honestly seemed like the best player in basketball this season, and his injury shouldn't do too much damage bc of how his game isn't really focused on elite explosiveness. He's still going to be a great shooter, he still got length to shoot over everyone, he still gonna be making those fadeaways that noone could block.

I would rather exclude him from the list than have him ranked at like 10 where he probably gonna end up. But as of now, I think we should vote based on what is and what we know instead of assuming. Its not guaranteed he'll come back worse, its not guaranteed he won't come back at all, and based of last season he should be top 3. I just don't want to see him ranked like 12th, you shouldn't be penalized like that bc of an injury.

[EArl]

Voted Jokic
Add Klay Thompson

[iggymcfrack]

Why is gobert even on this list let alone being voted on right now by 6 or 7 votes so far as the 7th best player in the game thats just ridiculous.

Agreed. I don’t think Gobert’s even better than Embiid on defense including playoffs. He’s not very good against teams with quick guards at all. I don’t know how he’s gotten so overrated on this forum. Here’s his career playoff plus/minus:

2016: -11.0
2017: -6.8
2018: -17.1

Overall, in a total of 25 playoff games, the Jazz are -8.1 with Gobert on the floor and +2.0 with him on the bench. I don’t see how a player who struggles that much in the postseason can be top 15 in the league.

[iggymcfrack]

That's fair if you feel like he should be completely excluded from the list. But he's in it, so that thinking is going to have him voted at like 12-13th best player in the league....which is ridiculous. If he's included in the list the votes should be for how good you think he is, and not be penalized for his injury. Otherwise he shouldn't be on the list at all.

I'd rather he be out of the list too, but if he is in the list, I am trying to project what I think he will be as a realistic player in the next year or two as beyond that it's really unfair, and it's kind of unfair to even project now but you try. For me, that's about #7 on this list. I personally think his days as a Top 3 player this and next year are too optimistic.

Disagree. I just feel like you can't assume that especially because of the season he just had. He honestly seemed like the best player in basketball this season, and his injury shouldn't do too much damage bc of how his game isn't really focused on elite explosiveness. He's still going to be a great shooter, he still got length to shoot over everyone, he still gonna be making those fadeaways that noone could block.

I would rather exclude him from the list than have him ranked at like 10 where he probably gonna end up. But as of now, I think we should vote based on what is and what we know instead of assuming. Its not guaranteed he'll come back worse, its not guaranteed he won't come back at all, and based of last season he should be top 3. I just don't want to see him ranked like 12th, you shouldn't be penalized like that bc of an injury.

12th is too high. I don’t think he should be ranked in a top 25 this season either, but even if we assume he’s coming back and just look at the games when he does come back he’s not going to just immediately be better than Lillard, Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler, etc. He’s going to be a lesser player. Look at guys like Dwyane Wade and Chris Paul. They were great, elite players prior to their injuries, and they were great elite players 2 or 3 years after their injuries but when they first came back they were shadows of themselves. Paul went from a 30.0 PER to a 23.3 PER. Wade came back for the playoffs and had a 15.2 PER in a sweep loss the year after being Finals MVP.

For all the hype on Durant, he might not have been a top 5 player even before injury. He had nowhere near the team carrying scoring of Harden or the elite 2-way impact of Giannis, AD, Embiid, or Paul George. And he’s never been able to elevate his game in the postseason to the level of LeBron or Kawhi. (A few games against the Clippers doesn’t count.) Both 2010 Paul and 2007 Wade were playing at a higher level than 2018 Durant, both had less serious injuries than Durant and neither was a top 10 player when they first came back. If he does play this year, I’d expect more like a higher ceiling version of Gallinari than some elite gamebreaking MVP-caliber talent.

[Zespetjest]

Jokić

Add Luka

[Sgt Major]

Big Honey

add Klay

[lakerz12]

If we are keeping Durant on this list, I see no reason (including his injury) that he shouldn't be voted in the top 3. I don't think anyone doubts that this past season he was a top 3 (probably best) player in the league. He hasn't been ruled out for the season, and I think if you're the best player in the league, you remain so until proven otherwise or its obvious you are no longer.

It doesn’t matter what he was last season. He suffered a terrible Achilles rupture.

I’m voting based off what I project the player to be going forward. Post-Achilles Durant will in all likelihood not be a top 3 player.

I expect he will be more like 10-15 so that’s where I will vote for him.