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Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#521 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:49 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Froob wrote:
Bohemian wrote:
Read on Twitter

Hayward for Blake is a no to me.


FTFY. That dude was great this year, but did you see his knee brace that he wore during the playoffs? Also had knee surgery after the Pistons season ended.

Again, the only way I make this trade is if the Pistons throw in a pick for taking on his contract. Detroit knows he could fall apart at any moment.


Only the longer-time fans can remember how before Danny stopped signing and drafting legit big men he went through a whole string of broken-down has-beens who were constantly injured.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#522 » by Triple7 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:55 pm

Hell no to blake! He’s an injury waiting to happen.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#523 » by Big Joke Line » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:12 pm

Roddy wrote:
Froob wrote:
Bohemian wrote:
Read on Twitter

Hayward for Blake is a no brainer to me.


We might be in minority here, but me too.

Kemba
Jaylen
Tatum
Griffin
Kanter

:clap:

Makes 3 of us
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#524 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:17 pm

Blake Griffin will never be healthy for a full NBA season. His knees are shot.

Id trade Hayward for him, but wouldnt start adding lottery pick(s) at all.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#525 » by BigTrade92 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:20 pm

Damn, Blake Griffin rumors now?

These are officially the dog days of the offseason.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#526 » by djFan71 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:24 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Blake Griffin will never be healthy for a full NBA season. His knees are shot.

Id trade Hayward for him, but wouldnt start adding lottery pick(s) at all.

I'm out on Blake. He's not what I want in a 2nd big. His offense is so much better than his D now, that I don't see the point. Our offense will be fine, it's our wide open opposing layup/lob line off the pick and roll that I'm worried about. Blake's not helping that, even if he stays on the court. I'd rather chance that Hayward returns to form and Timelord/Theis/GWill develop into the 2nd big.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#527 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:38 pm

A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#528 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:41 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.


I think the problem is that literally anyone + Kanter is a serious problem defensively.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#529 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:44 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.


I think the problem is that literally anyone + Kanter is a serious problem defensively.

I think the odds are “extremely” slim that Tatum, Brown and Hayward are going to be on the same team once the NBA Playoffs begin. I give it 10-15% chance.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#530 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.


I think the problem is that literally anyone + Kanter is a serious problem defensively.

I think the odds are “extremely” slim that Tatum, Brown and Hayward are going to be on the same team once the NBA Playoffs begin. I give it 10-15% chance.


I fully agree with you, moreso just illustrating that Kanter is a major hole defensively.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#531 » by Roddy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:52 pm

I hate the idea of Tatum/Hayward playing PF. Neither are good rebounders.

Hayward better be 100% physically and mentally or we will be in trouble.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#532 » by Ernest » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:20 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.


Totally agree. I get that people like the potential of a new player, but anyone thinking we don't have an elephant in the room problem right now is kidding themselves. It would be nice if a rookie or second year player stepped up and filled a huge role for us. But how often does that happen? When was the last time? Rondo in his second year and Perk too I guess. How many other picks have we made? How many players didn't step up to fill into a big role in year 1 or 2?

Keep an eye on teams that think right now they might be ok, that have terrible records a month or 2 in. Those are the bigs we will probably target.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#533 » by djFan71 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:24 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:A Hayward & Kanter front court is about as bad as you can get defensively. I expect Ainge to make a significant move if he can. If it’s not Blake Griffin it’s going to be somebody. People need to come to grip with this.

R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Poirier, Ojeleye, Fall etc. are all role players at best and out of the league at worst.

A move needs to be made and Ainge knows it. If not this off-season then it definitely will be during the season depending on who is available.

Horford & Embiid against Kanter, R. Williams, G. Williams, Theis, Hayward and Poirier is a joke. Ainge knows this. Expect a move.


I think the problem is that literally anyone + Kanter is a serious problem defensively.

I think the odds are “extremely” slim that Tatum, Brown and Hayward are going to be on the same team once the NBA Playoffs begin. I give it 10-15% chance.

I agree with this as well, and have been on the "it doesn't fit" train from day one. I think we need a trade. But, do we really think Griffin solves anything? Maybe I'm underrating his defense, but I don't see that as a fix for much.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#534 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:24 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:This is baiting. Knock it off. And the last part is just wholly offensive and unnecessary— you're better than that.


Well, thanks for that. I've never reported a post here, and never will. Have also never attacked that dude, and am far from the only one here with strong opinions or sharp elbows expressing them. Also didn't start the "take the L" thread being referred to, nor was I the one to bring it up in this one until I was I namelessly invoked by another poster.

Beyond that, there is a legitimate discussion to be had here. Not every group of posters shares every opinion on every topic, but in the bigger picture, there was absolutely a pretty sizable contingent of folks here who were adamant about (a) not wanting to tank, (b) giving IT a 4-5 year max, and (c) letting Smart walk for nothing (even if keeping him only meant matching an offer sheet smaller than his current deal). A lot of folks were pretty vocal about all that, and had no problem letting people who disagreed with any of that know exactly how they felt about their opinions.

Well, dust has settled enough to look back on all that. In the even bigger picture beyond this board, there is a hypothetical conversation about what the team could have or should have done during this rebuild. I, for one, am glad that we don't live in the world where those posters got their way, and we had a team with a maxed, broken-down IT and no Smart. And had I been someone who advocated for all that while mocking people who disagreed, I probably wouldn't want to revisit those past takes, either.

I, for one, have also been a big supporter of Ainge, Smart, and this rebuild in general. One thing I would have done differently is tank a little harder back when winning didn't matter. Not a scorched earth approach that Philly used, but certainly more than we did. Hard to say what that alternate universe looks like, but chances are high that we would have sacrificed some of our recent short-term success in order to land better prospects with our own draft picks (and better lottery odds in those drafts). Probably wouldn't even be talking about Smart right now had we done that.

With that approach, we are probably looking at Embiid or Gordon instead of Smart. If it were Embiid, we are probably putting him on the shelf his first year and tanking the next year or two as Philly did. Maybe the next year is Porzingis or Winslow, and given that the Nets were still going to be awful regardless, we have two very good shots at Ben Simmons the next year (maybe you even get him *and* Jaylen, or at least Hield). Still land Tatum the next year.

Of course, that alternate universe could have easily meant Jabari Parker and WCS (or perhaps even Paul George and AD). Either way, I'd take it over the no tank, maxed IT, and no Smart approach. Those weren't great opinions to be so jacked up about for so long. And ducking years of one hating on Smart over a 5% improvement on FGs that is largely attributable to the change in his role last year is... umm... an entertaining lack of accountability, IMO.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#535 » by Half-Full » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:03 pm

djFan71 wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Blake Griffin will never be healthy for a full NBA season. His knees are shot.

Id trade Hayward for him, but wouldnt start adding lottery pick(s) at all.

I'm out on Blake. He's not what I want in a 2nd big. His offense is so much better than his D now, that I don't see the point. Our offense will be fine, it's our wide open opposing layup/lob line off the pick and roll that I'm worried about. Blake's not helping that, even if he stays on the court. I'd rather chance that Hayward returns to form and Timelord/Theis/GWill develop into the 2nd big.


Count me out as well. If we were to explore a trade for a big, I'd be asking about Sabonis and Capela. I know those names have been thrown out, and discussed before. With the reality of our cap situation, I have no idea how likely a trade for either would work. Still, both those guys would be much better than Blake, certainly they are younger and healthier.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#536 » by StojkoVrankovic » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:25 pm

People are really sleeping on Hayward, he is going to beast this season. He is our best passer/playmaker which is critical with Brown/Tatum on this roster


Blake is a strong breeze away from limping for 3 months
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#537 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:35 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I think the problem is that literally anyone + Kanter is a serious problem defensively.

I think the odds are “extremely” slim that Tatum, Brown and Hayward are going to be on the same team once the NBA Playoffs begin. I give it 10-15% chance.


I fully agree with you, moreso just illustrating that Kanter is a major hole defensively.


Though at least if his knees hold, Rob W. should be starting ahead of Kanter by the playoffs anyway.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#538 » by eris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:14 pm

Half-Full wrote:Count me out as well. If we were to explore a trade for a big, I'd be asking about Sabonis and Capela. I know those names have been thrown out, and discussed before. With the reality of our cap situation, I have no idea how likely a trade for either would work. Still, both those guys would be much better than Blake, certainly they are younger and healthier.

I also don't think Blake Griffin is the answer.

What do you think of trying to get Arron Gordon from the Magic? He might be "odd man out" with all their bigs.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#539 » by eris » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:16 pm

StojkoVrankovic wrote:People are really sleeping on Hayward, he is going to beast this season. He is our best passer/playmaker which is critical with Brown/Tatum on this roster


Blake is a strong breeze away from limping for 3 months

I agree with both these points. Like I said yesterday, I'm optimistic that Hayward will be back to 100% and as effective as he was his last year in Utah. That's going to be a big difference maker for this team.
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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player 

Post#540 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:04 pm

I'm not optimistic about Hayward, but I'm not so pessimistic about Kanter. He's been a lousy defender. But players change, and he has the physical tools to be better defensively.
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