We need to trade Blake

[DetroitPistons]

OK. Just for kicks, I will take a shot here.

Tyler Johnson ($20 million expiring)
Evan Baynes (solid back up center, $5.5 million expiring)
Dario Saric (multi-talented young pf who will be a RFA next summer, Pistons maintain control if they want or expiring if they want)
Elie Okobo (young pg prospect)

Top 1 protected 2020 Suns FRP

For Blake

That's laughable.

For who? That 2020 pick could be really valuable.

All of those players completely suck. Yes, including Saric. That pick would be very late lottery at best and Griffin is worth a lot more than 1 mid FRP.

Rubio
Booker/Johnson
Oubre/Bridges
Griffin/Kaminsky
Ayton/Baynes

That team would be FAR improved from last years. They added some good veterans, especially at PG. Adding Griffin for their scrubs would have them in playoffs.

[Snakebites]

That's laughable.

For who? That 2020 pick could be really valuable.

All of those players completely suck. Yes, including Saric. That pick would be very late lottery at best and Griffin is worth a lot more than 1 mid FRP.

Rubio
Booker/Johnson
Oubre/Bridges
Griffin/Kaminsky
Ayton/Baynes

That team would be FAR improved from last years. They added some good veterans, especially at PG. Adding Griffin for their scrubs would have them in playoffs.

I guess my point was the main value of the deal is that lottery pick. I don't really care about the players we get back since a Blake trade is a rebuild trade.

They're still not making the playoffs. It's a lottery pick, and late lotto spots are more valuable than they used to be- higher chance of moving up. A top 1 protected pick is huge.

It's not an amazing deal or anything like that, but it's not laughable. We get a great rebuilding piece and out of Blake's salary. That's a great start to a proper rebuild.

[vege]

Top 10-15 players who have requested trades nowadays have been traded for way more than garbage players and the next Henry Ellenson, so yeah, that package is laughable, considering Blake didn't request a trade (as far as we know) it's even more laughable.

The fact that people around here are desperate to be the next Philly doesn't change the value of top 10-15 players.

[Snakebites]

Top 10-15 players who have requested trades nowadays have been traded for way more than garbage players and the next Henry Ellenson, so yeah, that package is laughable, considering Blake didn't request a trade (as far as we know) it's even more laughable.

The fact that people around here are desperate to be the next Philly doesn't change the value of top 10-15 players.

I don’t see any top 10-15 players in the deal.

Henry Ellenson. Yeah, okay.

[DetroitPistons]

Top 10-15 players who have requested trades nowadays have been traded for way more than garbage players and the next Henry Ellenson, so yeah, that package is laughable, considering Blake didn't request a trade (as far as we know) it's even more laughable.

The fact that people around here are desperate to be the next Philly doesn't change the value of top 10-15 players.

I don’t see any top 10-15 players in the deal.

Henry Ellenson. Yeah, okay.

Just curious. What do you personally think Griffin is actually worth? We gave up a lot more to get him and his value is significantly higher now. I see no reason why 2 FRPs wouldn't be the minimum we could get. I would be asking for 2 FRPs and a good young player. He is the type of player that can vault a team like DEN or POR into championship contention.

[Snakebites]

Top 10-15 players who have requested trades nowadays have been traded for way more than garbage players and the next Henry Ellenson, so yeah, that package is laughable, considering Blake didn't request a trade (as far as we know) it's even more laughable.

The fact that people around here are desperate to be the next Philly doesn't change the value of top 10-15 players.

I don’t see any top 10-15 players in the deal.

Henry Ellenson. Yeah, okay.

Just curious. What do you personally think Griffin is actually worth? We gave up a lot more to get him and his value is significantly higher now. I see no reason why 2 FRPs wouldn't be the minimum we could get. I would be asking for 2 FRPs and a good young player. He is the type of player that can vault a team like DEN or POR into championship contention.

I thought that trade was a massive overpay at the time. He’s a good player but his injury history and massive salary cut into that value a ton. And one healthy year capped by injury doesn’t negate those things either. What we gave up for him doesn’t necessarily reflect what his value actually was then. The Clippers were likely thrilled to get out from under that contract and the picks and players they got in addition were icing on the cake.

Then you’ve gotta look at how the teams have done since then, ignoring for now the moves each team has made and just trying to gage Blake’s impact. The Clippers, it should be noted, didn’t get worse after moving him, and we went from barely missing the playoffs to barely making them, not really fundamentally better or worse. Numbers don’t always equal impact. You call him a top 10-15 player and while his volume stats look that way his actual W/L impact doesn’t paint that picture on either side of this trade.

So yeah, I don’t think what we gave up for him is a good bench mark for what we should expect in a trade and I’d also suggest that his value increase has probably been overstated too. That end of the year injury coupled with his injury history might scare teams off, especially coupled with that salary.

How much is he worth? Hard to say as value isn’t a hard fast thing in this league. To us he clearly wasn’t worth what we payed since the impact wasn’t there and you’ve got all those factors cutting into the value he brings as a player. I’d be thrilled to shed the salary and got a pick like that to help the rebuild.

You’re welcome to disagree with any or all of that, but at least now you’ll get where I’m coming from. I don’t think he was worth what we traded for him and I’m not sure how greatly his value has increased.

[vege]

I don’t see any top 10-15 players in the deal.

Henry Ellenson. Yeah, okay.

Just curious. What do you personally think Griffin is actually worth? We gave up a lot more to get him and his value is significantly higher now. I see no reason why 2 FRPs wouldn't be the minimum we could get. I would be asking for 2 FRPs and a good young player. He is the type of player that can vault a team like DEN or POR into championship contention.

I thought that trade was a massive overpay at the time. He’s a good player but his injury history and massive salary cut into that value a ton. And one healthy year capped by injury doesn’t negate those things either. What we gave up for him doesn’t necessarily reflect what his value actually was then. The Clippers were likely thrilled to get out from under that contract and the picks and players they got in addition were icing on the cake.

Then you’ve gotta look at how the teams have done since then, ignoring for now the moves each team has made and just trying to gage Blake’s impact. The Clippers, it should be noted, didn’t get worse after moving him, and we went from barely missing the playoffs to barely making them, not really fundamentally better or worse. Numbers don’t always equal impact. You call him a top 10-15 player and while his volume stats look that way his actual W/L impact doesn’t paint that picture on either side of this trade.

So yeah, I don’t think what we gave up for him is a good bench mark for what we should expect in a trade and I’d also suggest that his value increase has probably been overstated too. That end of the year injury coupled with his injury history might scare teams off, especially coupled with that salary.

How much is he worth? Hard to say as value isn’t a hard fast thing in this league. To us he clearly wasn’t worth what we payed since the impact wasn’t there and you’ve got all those factors cutting into the value he brings as a player. I’d be thrilled to shed the salary and got a pick like that to help the rebuild.

You’re welcome to disagree with any or all of that, but at least now you’ll get where I’m coming from. I don’t think he was worth what we traded for him and I’m not sure how greatly his value has increased.

That's weird, You watch our games, you know how good Blake is, you even stated several times here, that at the time you didn't like the trade, but later you changed your opinion, I guess you changed your opinion again .

Yes our record didn't improve a lot, well, we changed coach, we changed system, players got injured, a lot of things happened. When Blake was healthy we were in a solid position to secure the 6th seed in the east. He got injured, we got the 8th seed, thanks to him. Yes I understand that his injury reduces his value but his usage was insane, so it's no surprise that his body couldn't take it anymore at the end of the season.

As for the Clippers, a lot of things happened as well. Gallo was health the whole season, some guys improved a lot (Harrell for example) and they have a solid coach and system for several years now, which make easier for the team to be consistent and even improve.

IMO Blake was easily a top 15 player last season, I would even argue he was top 10 and like I said, you watched him play, you kknow how good he is, I think you're using the wrong argument to make him a failure as a player. He is good, the team around him is awful.

We have no idea what teams would offer for him (all we know is we're not trading him), the closest thing we have to know his value, is what was paid for him the last time he was traded. A lotto pick in a strong draft, a borderline all star young player on a great contract, a useful expiring in Avery Bradley, a bad contract (not terrible) and a 2nd to pay for the bad contract.

The package the Phoenix fan posted wouldn't even get the lotto pick we gave up, and Tobias was the most valuable piece of the deal so yeah...

And I agree with DetroitPistons, Blake value very likely is higher than it was when we traded for him. Not only because what he has done on the court, but because of his durability last season, the way his game evolved according to the team needs and because he has proven he is a good leader and can lead a disfunctional team.

[Pharaoh]

Whiteside + Little + 2020 pick

Millsap + MPJ + 2020 pick

I think something like that works for Western "contenders" given the perception of parity in the league.

Hell, I would be open to trading Blake inside the conference if the right deal was presented

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Snakebites]

Just curious. What do you personally think Griffin is actually worth? We gave up a lot more to get him and his value is significantly higher now. I see no reason why 2 FRPs wouldn't be the minimum we could get. I would be asking for 2 FRPs and a good young player. He is the type of player that can vault a team like DEN or POR into championship contention.

I thought that trade was a massive overpay at the time. He’s a good player but his injury history and massive salary cut into that value a ton. And one healthy year capped by injury doesn’t negate those things either. What we gave up for him doesn’t necessarily reflect what his value actually was then. The Clippers were likely thrilled to get out from under that contract and the picks and players they got in addition were icing on the cake.

Then you’ve gotta look at how the teams have done since then, ignoring for now the moves each team has made and just trying to gage Blake’s impact. The Clippers, it should be noted, didn’t get worse after moving him, and we went from barely missing the playoffs to barely making them, not really fundamentally better or worse. Numbers don’t always equal impact. You call him a top 10-15 player and while his volume stats look that way his actual W/L impact doesn’t paint that picture on either side of this trade.

So yeah, I don’t think what we gave up for him is a good bench mark for what we should expect in a trade and I’d also suggest that his value increase has probably been overstated too. That end of the year injury coupled with his injury history might scare teams off, especially coupled with that salary.

How much is he worth? Hard to say as value isn’t a hard fast thing in this league. To us he clearly wasn’t worth what we payed since the impact wasn’t there and you’ve got all those factors cutting into the value he brings as a player. I’d be thrilled to shed the salary and got a pick like that to help the rebuild.

You’re welcome to disagree with any or all of that, but at least now you’ll get where I’m coming from. I don’t think he was worth what we traded for him and I’m not sure how greatly his value has increased.

That's weird, You watch our games, you know how good Blake is, you even stated several times here, that at the time you didn't like the trade, but later you changed your opinion, I guess you changed your opinion again .

I'll clarify: my opinion on Blake as a player changed. It didn't change enough for me to think this was a good trade.

My opinion right after the trade: "guy isn't that good anymore, and even if he were this team is in the wrong situation at the wrong time to be making a win-now move like this".

Opinion a year after the trade: "guy is still a pretty good player, but all of that other stuff was proven right. He didn't help our record much and it was still not the right situation for us."

Blake the player wasn't a failure. But the goal of the trade was to make us better right now. I don't see how the trade can be seen as anything but a failure when looked at in that lens. It also calls into question whether the way Blake plays actually helps teams win games, given his apparent lack of impact on both the team he went to and the team he left. I think if you have a trade that hurt our longterm plans while not improving us significantly in the short term, it follows logically that this trade wasn't a success.

As for the Clippers, I wasn't just talking about this past season, I was talking about the rest of the season after they traded him too. They replaced Blake with Tobias and Bradley and didn't miss a beat. They finished with a better record than us despite having a similar one to us at the end the time of the trade. Does that mean Blake is a terrible player? No. He's a good player, but he's not a franchise changing talent despite being paid like one. And being overpaid cuts into your value. That's a stance that shouldn't be controversial.

As for his value now, yeah, I'd still argue that his injuries at the end of last season negated a lot of those "durability points" he might have gotten.

[kellmellus50]

I thought that trade was a massive overpay at the time. He’s a good player but his injury history and massive salary cut into that value a ton. And one healthy year capped by injury doesn’t negate those things either. What we gave up for him doesn’t necessarily reflect what his value actually was then. The Clippers were likely thrilled to get out from under that contract and the picks and players they got in addition were icing on the cake.

Then you’ve gotta look at how the teams have done since then, ignoring for now the moves each team has made and just trying to gage Blake’s impact. The Clippers, it should be noted, didn’t get worse after moving him, and we went from barely missing the playoffs to barely making them, not really fundamentally better or worse. Numbers don’t always equal impact. You call him a top 10-15 player and while his volume stats look that way his actual W/L impact doesn’t paint that picture on either side of this trade.

So yeah, I don’t think what we gave up for him is a good bench mark for what we should expect in a trade and I’d also suggest that his value increase has probably been overstated too. That end of the year injury coupled with his injury history might scare teams off, especially coupled with that salary.

How much is he worth? Hard to say as value isn’t a hard fast thing in this league. To us he clearly wasn’t worth what we payed since the impact wasn’t there and you’ve got all those factors cutting into the value he brings as a player. I’d be thrilled to shed the salary and got a pick like that to help the rebuild.

You’re welcome to disagree with any or all of that, but at least now you’ll get where I’m coming from. I don’t think he was worth what we traded for him and I’m not sure how greatly his value has increased.

That's weird, You watch our games, you know how good Blake is, you even stated several times here, that at the time you didn't like the trade, but later you changed your opinion, I guess you changed your opinion again .

I'll clarify: my opinion on Blake as a player changed. It didn't change enough for me to think this was a good trade.

My opinion right after the trade: "guy isn't that good anymore, and even if he were this team is in the wrong situation at the wrong time to be making a win-now move like this".

Opinion a year after the trade: "guy is still a pretty good player, but all of that other stuff was proven right. He didn't help our record much and it was still not the right situation for us."

Blake the player wasn't a failure. But the goal of the trade was to make us better right now. I don't see how the trade can be seen as anything but a failure when looked at in that lens. It also calls into question whether the way Blake plays actually helps teams win games, given his apparent lack of impact on both the team he went to and the team he left. I think if you have a trade that hurt our longterm plans while not improving us significantly in the short term, it follows logically that this trade wasn't a success.

As for the Clippers, I wasn't just talking about this past season, I was talking about the rest of the season after they traded him too. They replaced Blake with Tobias and Bradley and didn't miss a beat. They finished with a better record than us despite having a similar one to us at the end the time of the trade. Does that mean Blake is a terrible player? No. He's a good player, but he's not a franchise changing talent despite being paid like one. And being overpaid cuts into your value. That's a stance that shouldn't be controversial.

As for his value now, yeah, I'd still argue that his injuries at the end of last season negated a lot of those "durability points" he might have gotten.

Quote:Opinion a year after the trade: "guy is still a pretty good player, but all of that other stuff was proven right. He didn't help our record much and it was still not the right situation for us."

The reason he did not help our record was because of the people around him just like Lebron James you can't do it all yourself without a supporting cast.

[Snakebites]

That's weird, You watch our games, you know how good Blake is, you even stated several times here, that at the time you didn't like the trade, but later you changed your opinion, I guess you changed your opinion again .

I'll clarify: my opinion on Blake as a player changed. It didn't change enough for me to think this was a good trade.

My opinion right after the trade: "guy isn't that good anymore, and even if he were this team is in the wrong situation at the wrong time to be making a win-now move like this".

Opinion a year after the trade: "guy is still a pretty good player, but all of that other stuff was proven right. He didn't help our record much and it was still not the right situation for us."

Blake the player wasn't a failure. But the goal of the trade was to make us better right now. I don't see how the trade can be seen as anything but a failure when looked at in that lens. It also calls into question whether the way Blake plays actually helps teams win games, given his apparent lack of impact on both the team he went to and the team he left. I think if you have a trade that hurt our longterm plans while not improving us significantly in the short term, it follows logically that this trade wasn't a success.

As for the Clippers, I wasn't just talking about this past season, I was talking about the rest of the season after they traded him too. They replaced Blake with Tobias and Bradley and didn't miss a beat. They finished with a better record than us despite having a similar one to us at the end the time of the trade. Does that mean Blake is a terrible player? No. He's a good player, but he's not a franchise changing talent despite being paid like one. And being overpaid cuts into your value. That's a stance that shouldn't be controversial.

As for his value now, yeah, I'd still argue that his injuries at the end of last season negated a lot of those "durability points" he might have gotten.

Quote:Opinion a year after the trade: "guy is still a pretty good player, but all of that other stuff was proven right. He didn't help our record much and it was still not the right situation for us."

The reason he did not help our record was because of the people around him just like Lebron James you can't do it all yourself without a supporting cast.

He got us 2 wins despite a team that wasn't really more injured than the previous year.

The Lakers were a different case because of the crazy injury issues they had last year, including for Lebron.

And the fact that he didn't have the cast around him to win games- wouldn't that just further prove my point that it was the wrong time for us to make a move like that?

[jakebernat]

can we agree that, talent/starpower aside, this is a much better team when Blake is surrounded by shooters, given casey’s system? i mean, it doesn’t take rocket appliances to see that (any trailer park boys fans on here?)

[kellmellus50]

Quote:And the fact that he didn't have the cast around him to win games- wouldn't that just further prove my point that it was the wrong time for us to make a move like that?[/quote]

Yes, wrong time to do that move and i liked Tobias to stay, but after all said and done we would have lost Tobias because he would have signed with Phill on that massive contract,So really were better off now with Blake at least we can trade him and get something back in return,Something better than nothing.

[Snakebites]

Quote:And the fact that he didn't have the cast around him to win games- wouldn't that just further prove my point that it was the wrong time for us to make a move like that?

Yes, wrong time to do that move and i liked Tobias to stay, but after all said and done we would have lost Tobias because he would have signed with Phill on that massive contract,So really were better off now with Blake at least we can trade him and get something back in return,Something better than nothing.[/quote]
I might agree if we could and would actually trade him for something.

There's no indication of that.

[SamFlow]

I think the team is going to be much better this year. We won't have a second round rookie playing starting sf for one. He looks much better to be a PG adding to depth. We have a starting level SF, who can hit the three (albeit not attack like we need). I think depth all the way around is improved. 50 wins plus/minus 3 as long as injuries don't crack us too bad.

I'd still be open to trade ideas involving any players if it makes us better long term. If we don't trade for a Beal, we won't contend. Just become more relevant. So Trading Blake or Dre for 20 first round picks... I'd do.

There have been a few trade rumors involving the bulls and orlando. Coby White and Markkanen or Coby White and Aaron Gordon in a three way...those two and 3plus first rounders I'd be good with. It would keep us in the playoffs maybe and good picks for the future. I would not give up sekou.

[BNM]

Trade Blake to Portland for Whiteside expiring, Anfernee Simons and a pick. Trade Andre too before Gores gives him a $200 million max deal when he opts out after next season.

You're really close, but I doubt if POR gives up Simons. They are very high on him as a 6th man this year and possible eventual C.J. replacement. Make it Whiteside's expiring + Nassir Little + 2020 unprotected 1st and POR might even throw in a lottery protected 2022 1st, or maybe a pick swap or two (seems to be popular these days).

[BNM]

Whiteside + Little + 2020 pick

Yep, once Nurk comes back, POR would definitely do that. They might even do it before Nurk comes back. It saves DET about $80 - $85 million in salary over the last 2.5 - 3 years of Blake's deal, gets them a young, cheap extremely athletic prospect and a 2020 1st round pick. POR might even throw in an additional 1st round pick, some pick swaps or a couple of second rounders.

Blake, if healthy (always a risk) would be a perfect fit in POR in a 3-man rotation of Nurkic, Collins and Blake. His 3-point shooting and ball handling/distribution at the 4 would also be a godsend. His contract plus Lillard's just signed super max extension would put POR in repeater tax hell for the next three years, but if you want to compete in the West, you've gotta pay the piper. Given POR's cap situation, the only way they can add top notch talent is by trading expiring contracts, young talent and draft picks. Thankfully, they have two of the first (Whiteside and Bazemore), several young players, and own all their future 1st round picks. They are well positioned to offer an attractive package to DET. It's just a matter of working out something that both teams will agree to.

[DBC10]

Whiteside + Little + 2020 pick

Yep, once Nurk comes back, POR would definitely do that. They might even do it before Nurk comes back. It saves DET about $80 - $85 million in salary over the last 2.5 - 3 years of Blake's deal, gets them a young, cheap extremely athletic prospect and a 2020 1st round pick. POR might even throw in an additional 1st round pick, some pick swaps or a couple of second rounders.

Blake, if healthy (always a risk) would be a perfect fit in POR in a 3-man rotation of Nurkic, Collins and Blake. His 3-point shooting and ball handling/distribution at the 4 would also be a godsend. His contract plus Lillard's just signed super max extension would put POR in repeater tax hell for the next three years, but if you want to compete in the West, you've gotta pay the piper. Given POR's cap situation, the only way they can add top notch talent is by trading expiring contracts, young talent and draft picks. Thankfully, they have two of the first (Whiteside and Bazemore), several young players, and own all their future 1st round picks. They are well positioned to offer an attractive package to DET. It's just a matter of working out something that both teams will agree to.

Which is why it's beneficial for both Griffin's and the Org's side to get a trade done this year rather than the next few. Give Griffin a chance to compete while being paid and POR gets their PF after the long absence since Aldridge left.

His injury history is concerning, and he's basically willing himself to semi-dominance on one knee due to his high flying days in Lob City. I'm even gonna go out on a limb here and say that the reason the phones weren't constantly ringing for Blake was his injury risk. I would love for a chance to get Nassir and a 1st, maybe a 2022 second (one and done rule being DONE). Simons and a pick would be a better package than both though. But they regard him as untouchable which makes it even more potentially lucrative.

[Spider156]

I'd like to chime in.

Let's get something straight. Tobias and a FRP plus expiring is a fantastic trade for a Top 15 player in the league. Players in the Top 15 are usually unavailable and if they are, there are risks. This is the same reason I wanted Westbrook (despite his shooting woes).

Fast forward a year later, the trade is an absolute success. Issue- We were 6th, Blake couldn't carry the team (he shouldn't be in this position which means it was the wrong time to get him I agree), he got injured, and Drummond carried us into the Playoffs the last 10 games. The trade was successful because we made it to the Playoffs. It would be a different story if Blake was healthy against the Bucks and we shouldn't be playing against them anyway. The next reason is because of his leadership. It's priceless and if you've watched enough basketball you should understand having a professional hard working culture always and will always and will continue to be better than tanking and gaining a losing culture. I don't need to prove this (See Toronto winning without a Lottery pick on the team).

The biggest problem of the trade is we were handcuffed with salaries. Now that's not the case. We are set to make another Blockbuster trade whether another star coming or Blake leaving. It's very realistic (See Westbrook trade). Fans are going to grow impatient with the front office knowing they will take their time with this trade and I think they deserve it after a successful offseason specially with expirings on the trade deadline. We have time and depth, no rush to make a decision.

Blake's value: You ask for 3 FRPs and a young prospect. Every team in the NBA is now looking to get better. The lottery is now against teams in the bottom 5. There's no reason not to compete and continue to build through the draft and solid contracts. There's absolutely ZERO reasons to ever consider Blake's contract is worse than Durant's at 41m a year, missing a whole year, and his leg completely torn from the Achilles up to the Soleus (first injury in Playoffs). If he continues to get cramps on his Soleus, it's over for Durant's career. It's going downhill from here, his first step is gone as is with the Achilles. My argument is why doesn't Durant get heat for his injuries and contract when Blake has a smaller contract and a less concerning injury. It's ignorant fan bias, New York vs Detroit. Truth is Blake has massive value and I'd be a fan of cashing him in or keeping him to compete. He's by no means worth 1 FRP. he's worth 3 at least. Don't fool yourself, teams are desperate (See Lakers/Clippers/Mavs/Rockets/Nets). Lol the Nets gave a FRP to get injured Durant. What a joke. Don't even get me started on ACL Porzingis and what Mavs gave up for him, then there's Davis and his injury history.

Look, to me it's not an argument if Blake is worth more than 2 FRP, that's a joke deal if you ask me. It's a matter of opportunity. If another star is available come trade deadline, get that star. If we can't get another player, you either keep Blake until next offseason or he's got to go. Either way it really doesn't matter. We can have a completely different team in a year after Jackson Galloway Smith and Drummond get off the books. If you ask me, I don't believe Blake is going anywhere this season so this conversation is moot as far as I can tell.

[A_dub06]

OK. Just for kicks, I will take a shot here.

Tyler Johnson ($20 million expiring)
Evan Baynes (solid back up center, $5.5 million expiring)
Dario Saric (multi-talented young pf who will be a RFA next summer, Pistons maintain control if they want or expiring if they want)
Elie Okobo (young pg prospect)

Top 1 protected 2020 Suns FRP

For Blake

That's laughable.

For who? That 2020 pick could be really valuable.

Depends on the protections. I would probably do it if they included a 2022 second