Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[ezzzp]

John Schuhmann NBA.com

The Orlando Magic rank second in continuity, one of two teams (Dallas is the other) with nobody on their end-of-season roster having signed with (or been traded to) another team. But they've added one rotation piece by signing Al-Farouq Aminu, who represents the biggest jump in '18-19 rebounds between the non-rookies a team has added (610) and those they've lost or remain unsigned (195). The Magic were already a good rebounding team, ranking 11th in total rebounding percentage and third in defensive rebounding percentage last season.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Couple housekeeping items there.

[KillMonger]

We signed Jefferson to the main team? Uhh...... Why?

Sent from my SM-G960U using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

We signed Jefferson to the main team? Uhh...... Why?

Two-way deal per Roy Parry of the Orlando Sentinel.

Not one of the 15 NBA roster spots.

[drsd]

Read on Twitter

Couple housekeeping items there.

Nice to see what Birch's contract is: 3 and 3. Never saw that reported before. THX!


..

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

[VFX]

Read on Twitter

Can’t wait to see one of these done on Isaac.

[dsg2021]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

[VFX]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

Warriors hang up the phone if AG or Isaac aren’t in the trade.

[basketballRob]

Russell will be better than Beal in my opinion. If you look at Russell last year at 22, he was better than Beal at the same age.

If you can get him for AG and DJ I'd do it.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[azwfan]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

One GSW fan perspective:

Your version above gets a "no" from us. Its just not close enough talent for us - i don't feel it is close at all. The picks are great and all, but those are sweeteners from our perspective, not primary pieces. Bottom line, we're trying to win a title, and nothing we're getting back above is helping us get there. Not trying to trash your guys, cause its not productive, but below is my perspective on the guys you mentioned.

Aminu:
We just got done playing Aminu 4 straight in the WCF... well actually his teammates 4 straight cause he showed next to nothing. Yes, he's better than who we're rolling with at SF this year (McKinnie and GR3) but that says more about who we got at SF than Aminu. Aminu can always improve, but I view D'Angelo as a borderline all star and Aminu as a borderline rotation player on a contending team (9th/10th man). He was playing like 15mpg against us in the conference finals and was not impressive.

Bamba:
As a high draft pick, i'm sure has much more value to building teams. For us, I just can't see Kerr throwing him out there for needed minutes in the playoffs. Maybe in a few years... maybe.

Okeke:
While he would be a nice sweetener if healthy for us, the fact is, he's out for most of the year, and with us up against the hard cap (and Klay out) those circumstances makes him a no-go for us. We wouldn't have interest in him until the summer 2020.

DJ Augustine:
He would be a nice backup PG in the case of losing Russell. He's not talented enough to think of as a primary return piece, but if we were throwing him out there for 15-20 min in a playoff game, i'd feel better about that than say... Quinn Cook (who we were sadly relying on last year).

Ross:
Has value as a deep rotation player, but like Augustine, I don't see him as close enough to D'Angelo to make it worth it for us. Nice player though.

The above are all quality filler or in the case of Bamba - sweetener. Don't see any as someone to base trade talks around. Fultz is seen by me as having negative value until proven otherwise. I'd take a flier on him for the vet minimum, but at 9.7M and with us litterally just thousands of $ from our hard cap - its negative value for us - way negative.

Picks won't make up the difference unless they are sent to a 3rd team for a young star(ish) type player. And you guys aren't bad enough to make those picks very attractive. Where the picks would come in negotiation wise is if y'all really want Russell and are bidding with another team. But as for just spit balling here on the forum not a lot of interest in picks. We're hard capped and thinking about banners... I don't see future picks being a significant part of a D'Angelo trade.

I've thought about moves such as Fournier + (with the + coming from another team) but i just don't see where that + is coming from to make us jump at that. I think i've come around to if its Dlo to the Magic, we're gonna need AG back.

Jonathan Isaac also would be a nice starting point also though i suspect Isaac has much higher value to y'all at this point then he would to us.

So I guess its back to D'Angelo for A.G. Augustine would need to be added in to make salaries work and since he's good enough to be a rotation player in the playoffs, and we're short a roster spot, his inclusion would be seen as a plus by me. There have been several posters who have mentioned this trade (or something really close to it) on the GSW trade thread, and although i would not vote YES to it, i will say that if we were to trade D'Angelo (my preference is to keep him), its solid option.

[Skybox]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

One GSW fan perspective:

Your version above gets a "no" from us. Its just not close enough talent for us - i don't feel it is close at all. The picks are great and all, but those are sweeteners from our perspective, not primary pieces. Bottom line, we're trying to win a title, and nothing we're getting back above is helping us get there. Not trying to trash your guys, cause its not productive, but below is my perspective on the guys you mentioned.

Aminu:
We just got done playing Aminu 4 straight in the WCF... well actually his teammates 4 straight cause he showed next to nothing. Yes, he's better than who we're rolling with at SF this year (McKinnie and GR3) but that says more about who we got at SF than Aminu. Aminu can always improve, but I view D'Angelo as a borderline all star and Aminu as a borderline rotation player on a contending team (9th/10th man). He was playing like 15mpg against us in the conference finals and was not impressive.

Bamba:
As a high draft pick, i'm sure has much more value to building teams. For us, I just can't see Kerr throwing him out there for needed minutes in the playoffs. Maybe in a few years... maybe.

Okeke:
While he would be a nice sweetener if healthy for us, the fact is, he's out for most of the year, and with us up against the hard cap (and Klay out) those circumstances makes him a no-go for us. We wouldn't have interest in him until the summer 2020.

DJ Augustine:
He would be a nice backup PG in the case of losing Russell. He's not talented enough to think of as a primary return piece, but if we were throwing him out there for 15-20 min in a playoff game, i'd feel better about that than say... Quinn Cook (who we were sadly relying on last year).

Ross:
Has value as a deep rotation player, but like Augustine, I don't see him as close enough to D'Angelo to make it worth it for us. Nice player though.

The above are all quality filler or in the case of Bamba - sweetener. Don't see any as someone to base trade talks around. Fultz is seen by me as having negative value until proven otherwise. I'd take a flier on him for the vet minimum, but at 9.7M and with us litterally just thousands of $ from our hard cap - its negative value for us - way negative.

Picks won't make up the difference unless they are sent to a 3rd team for a young star(ish) type player. And you guys aren't bad enough to make those picks very attractive. Where the picks would come in negotiation wise is if y'all really want Russell and are bidding with another team. But as for just spit balling here on the forum not a lot of interest in picks. We're hard capped and thinking about banners... I don't see future picks being a significant part of a D'Angelo trade.

I've thought about moves such as Fournier + (with the + coming from another team) but i just don't see where that + is coming from to make us jump at that. I think i've come around to if its Dlo to the Magic, we're gonna need AG back.

Jonathan Isaac also would be a nice starting point also though i suspect Isaac has much higher value to y'all at this point then he would to us.

So I guess its back to D'Angelo for A.G. Augustine would need to be added in to make salaries work and since he's good enough to be a rotation player in the playoffs, and we're short a roster spot, his inclusion would be seen as a plus by me. There have been several posters who have mentioned this trade (or something really close to it) on the GSW trade thread, and although i would not vote YES to it, i will say that if we were to trade D'Angelo (my preference is to keep him), its solid option.

Seems right...as we propose packages, we have to consider timeline to an even greater extent than value, IMO. GSW is fighting to stay in title contention NOW(while Curry, Klay, Dray are at their peak), so any package for DLo should help that-AG and DJ makes sense there, or AG and Evan...In the case of Beal, WAS has a whole different timeline (if they decide to trade him), so they might like Bamba, picks, cap space, etc more....buckets of 2nd round picks and prospects mean zip to GSW unless they can reroute them.

It feels nice to know that ORL is poised to make an offer of either type based on our depth and player mix.

[dsg2021]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

One GSW fan perspective:

Your version above gets a "no" from us. Its just not close enough talent for us - i don't feel it is close at all. The picks are great and all, but those are sweeteners from our perspective, not primary pieces. Bottom line, we're trying to win a title, and nothing we're getting back above is helping us get there. Not trying to trash your guys, cause its not productive, but below is my perspective on the guys you mentioned.

Aminu:
We just got done playing Aminu 4 straight in the WCF... well actually his teammates 4 straight cause he showed next to nothing. Yes, he's better than who we're rolling with at SF this year (McKinnie and GR3) but that says more about who we got at SF than Aminu. Aminu can always improve, but I view D'Angelo as a borderline all star and Aminu as a borderline rotation player on a contending team (9th/10th man). He was playing like 15mpg against us in the conference finals and was not impressive.

Bamba:
As a high draft pick, i'm sure has much more value to building teams. For us, I just can't see Kerr throwing him out there for needed minutes in the playoffs. Maybe in a few years... maybe.

Okeke:
While he would be a nice sweetener if healthy for us, the fact is, he's out for most of the year, and with us up against the hard cap (and Klay out) those circumstances makes him a no-go for us. We wouldn't have interest in him until the summer 2020.

DJ Augustine:
He would be a nice backup PG in the case of losing Russell. He's not talented enough to think of as a primary return piece, but if we were throwing him out there for 15-20 min in a playoff game, i'd feel better about that than say... Quinn Cook (who we were sadly relying on last year).

Ross:
Has value as a deep rotation player, but like Augustine, I don't see him as close enough to D'Angelo to make it worth it for us. Nice player though.

The above are all quality filler or in the case of Bamba - sweetener. Don't see any as someone to base trade talks around. Fultz is seen by me as having negative value until proven otherwise. I'd take a flier on him for the vet minimum, but at 9.7M and with us litterally just thousands of $ from our hard cap - its negative value for us - way negative.

Picks won't make up the difference unless they are sent to a 3rd team for a young star(ish) type player. And you guys aren't bad enough to make those picks very attractive. Where the picks would come in negotiation wise is if y'all really want Russell and are bidding with another team. But as for just spit balling here on the forum not a lot of interest in picks. We're hard capped and thinking about banners... I don't see future picks being a significant part of a D'Angelo trade.

I've thought about moves such as Fournier + (with the + coming from another team) but i just don't see where that + is coming from to make us jump at that. I think i've come around to if its Dlo to the Magic, we're gonna need AG back.

Jonathan Isaac also would be a nice starting point also though i suspect Isaac has much higher value to y'all at this point then he would to us.

So I guess its back to D'Angelo for A.G. Augustine would need to be added in to make salaries work and since he's good enough to be a rotation player in the playoffs, and we're short a roster spot, his inclusion would be seen as a plus by me. There have been several posters who have mentioned this trade (or something really close to it) on the GSW trade thread, and although i would not vote YES to it, i will say that if we were to trade D'Angelo (my preference is to keep him), its solid option.

Awesome input, thanks man. I think you severely underrated Ross, but I really respect your informed opinion. Thanks for some clarification on it.

[Skybox]

Id hate to give up AG AND Ross for DLo...both solid contributors on solid deals. Evan is a good option because of his cost/production ratio...I'm a believer that Evan will bounce back, but Ross is more valuable at the moment, because of his deal.

[swarlesbarkley]

I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

[yoyojw17]

Id hate to give up AG AND Ross for DLo...both solid contributors on solid deals. Evan is a good option because of his cost/production ratio...I'm a believer that Evan will bounce back, but Ross is more valuable at the moment, because of his deal.

Our team is banking on Fultz. THough it's all behind the shroud ... i think they feel great about his return. Needless to say.... having a player that can command an offense, be a primary ball handler will open up so much for so many players on our team... vuc and fournier included. totally expect step forwards from everyone last season.

[fendilim]

I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

[basketballRob]

GSW had the cost of acquiring D’Lo at one valuable future 1st and probably two 2nds (or around a 18th pick, 1st rounder this next summer). D’Lo wouldn’t come cheap but he really does fit our roster very well with his shooting, probing skill, and passing vision. He’s not too athletic but definitely has elite length for his spot. When I compare him to say LaVine, you get a less exciting and I would say a less efficient shooter-oriented scorer, but much more passing vision and bball IQ, which would push him a little over LaVine for me right now (LaVine’s also got that spotty health record).

GSW took massive advantage of the CBA non-cap-smoothing to create the situation of a super team in the NBA. They didn’t want to lose KD and lose that loophole they created some years ago. By resigning Dray, they’ll have four legit All Stars still. But then their tax bills start entering apron and higher penalty amounts, ouch. So if they flip D’Lo for some cheaper pieces and asset return, they can regain more flexibility and roster balance again.

I think an ORL offer, who for once was actually reportedly linked to this PG, would be very fair at;

Al-Farouq Aminu, Markelle Fultz, and D.J. Augustin, 2020 ORL 1st, 2020 LAL 2nd, 2023 ORL 2nd, 2025 ORL 2nd


That is a great framework with useful pieces for GSW’s rotation. If GSW competes this year and gets a likely 1st round protection triggered, then they’re only mortgaged one future 1st rounder as they reshape themselves. That means this deal adds two 1sts to GSW’s 2020 summer. Where GSW is really mortgaged is their outgoing 2nd round picks, and this framework will accomplish replenishing it; along with getting lucky on buying a late 2nd or two for mainly cash in future years.

If GSW is not super high on Fultz, they may balk at getting just two rotation pieces and solid picks value for D’Lo. And then I think the negotiation game begins with some combination of taking some picks out or in, and putting Bamba or Okeke in or out too (Birch to a small degree as well). That’s how I’d armchair-GM it. But you really worry about losing one or both of Bamba or Okeke when you don’t have a firm grasp on their potential. AG as a huge value equalizer for D’Lo has a more tangible career/potential that ORL could stomach losing out on for D’Lo, but even he is still young enough to unlock a next level or two. I also think breaking up AG and JI is tantamount to breaking up ORL’s unique strength. You need D’Lo with both there, not just one of them.

So I think the trade comes back to the framework above, plus likely negotiating like hell to keep picks, Okeke and/or Bamba out of it. If I’m GSW, I really love Okeke and Aminu replacing GSW’s lost tall length on the court that helped them win titles, and Augustin and Fultz as great guard depth. Add some future picks, with two 1sts coming to GSW as early as 2020 summer with the good news event of a loyalty discount Draymond signing, and now GSW is cooking.

My two biggest dark-horse frameworks that also made a lot of sense for GSW was putting the deal around one or two of Fournier and Ross, and being greedy at getting Okeke, Aminu, and great picks value.



ORL’s lineup:
(My version has Bamba, Birch, D.J., Aminu and one lost 1st, three lost 2nd’s outgoing.)
(But I think one version around Ross or Fournier also could happen where some combination of D.J., Bamba, Birch, and ORL picks are taken out in negotiations.)

D’Angelo Russell / Markelle Fultz / MCW
Evan Fournier / Terrence Ross
Aaron Gordon / Chuma Okeke / Wes Iwundu
Jonathan Isaac / Chuma Okeke
Nikola Vucevic / Amile Jefferson / new-signing

One GSW fan perspective:

Your version above gets a "no" from us. Its just not close enough talent for us - i don't feel it is close at all. The picks are great and all, but those are sweeteners from our perspective, not primary pieces. Bottom line, we're trying to win a title, and nothing we're getting back above is helping us get there. Not trying to trash your guys, cause its not productive, but below is my perspective on the guys you mentioned.

Aminu:
We just got done playing Aminu 4 straight in the WCF... well actually his teammates 4 straight cause he showed next to nothing. Yes, he's better than who we're rolling with at SF this year (McKinnie and GR3) but that says more about who we got at SF than Aminu. Aminu can always improve, but I view D'Angelo as a borderline all star and Aminu as a borderline rotation player on a contending team (9th/10th man). He was playing like 15mpg against us in the conference finals and was not impressive.

Bamba:
As a high draft pick, i'm sure has much more value to building teams. For us, I just can't see Kerr throwing him out there for needed minutes in the playoffs. Maybe in a few years... maybe.

Okeke:
While he would be a nice sweetener if healthy for us, the fact is, he's out for most of the year, and with us up against the hard cap (and Klay out) those circumstances makes him a no-go for us. We wouldn't have interest in him until the summer 2020.

DJ Augustine:
He would be a nice backup PG in the case of losing Russell. He's not talented enough to think of as a primary return piece, but if we were throwing him out there for 15-20 min in a playoff game, i'd feel better about that than say... Quinn Cook (who we were sadly relying on last year).

Ross:
Has value as a deep rotation player, but like Augustine, I don't see him as close enough to D'Angelo to make it worth it for us. Nice player though.

The above are all quality filler or in the case of Bamba - sweetener. Don't see any as someone to base trade talks around. Fultz is seen by me as having negative value until proven otherwise. I'd take a flier on him for the vet minimum, but at 9.7M and with us litterally just thousands of $ from our hard cap - its negative value for us - way negative.

Picks won't make up the difference unless they are sent to a 3rd team for a young star(ish) type player. And you guys aren't bad enough to make those picks very attractive. Where the picks would come in negotiation wise is if y'all really want Russell and are bidding with another team. But as for just spit balling here on the forum not a lot of interest in picks. We're hard capped and thinking about banners... I don't see future picks being a significant part of a D'Angelo trade.

I've thought about moves such as Fournier + (with the + coming from another team) but i just don't see where that + is coming from to make us jump at that. I think i've come around to if its Dlo to the Magic, we're gonna need AG back.

Jonathan Isaac also would be a nice starting point also though i suspect Isaac has much higher value to y'all at this point then he would to us.

So I guess its back to D'Angelo for A.G. Augustine would need to be added in to make salaries work and since he's good enough to be a rotation player in the playoffs, and we're short a roster spot, his inclusion would be seen as a plus by me. There have been several posters who have mentioned this trade (or something really close to it) on the GSW trade thread, and although i would not vote YES to it, i will say that if we were to trade D'Angelo (my preference is to keep him), its solid option.

I think AG and DJ for DLo is a fair deal. I think the overwhelming Magic fan base wouldn't trade Gordon, because they fill like he's on the cusp of being an allstar. Plus DJ has evolved into one of the best shooters in the NBA.



Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

i agree with all except the underlined. AG is only 23, he is still young

[ezzzp]

Read on Twitter

The Magic may not have that #1 option backcourt/forward "finisher" that is vital in the post-season, but they are pretty deep. At least that's how it looks on paper.

I for one, am very intrigued by the forward rotation of Gordon/JI/Aminu. Baring injuries, this year there will always be at minimum two high level versatile defenders roaming the floor. There should be a seamless defensive continuity at the forward positions.

If Clifford is able to balance minutes from top to bottom, it should hypothetically help the team have fresher legs for a late season/post season push. It should also help balance out the offense/defense equation in regards to stamina required to play high level 2-way ball for everyone.

Of note, three of the Magic starters were near the top of the NBA in total minutes played: (15th) Gordon-2653 (26th) Fournier-2553 and (33d) Vucevic-2510 ...improved depth should help manage that