Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Chanel Bomber]

I don't know why that is so difficult? Why not simply declare "open season" on the starting PG position and let those three compete for who starts, who's backup, and who sits? Let them fight it out. I just don't know if Fizdale is capable of doing that, which is a great shame if he can't because it completely undermines our alleged mission of developing our young players.

I think that's what they did last year and Mudiay came out on top in practice over Frank regularly.

After a full summer league and preseason, Frank was given the starting SF position. I don't know that Frank was ever given a fair shot at the PG position. Fizdale seemed to favor Mudiay even before they got to training camp talking about how he "was going to fix" him.

That's because Frank is clearly not a point guard. Time to give up on that narrative.

[Chanel Bomber]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

[mpharris36]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

If you want the 10 best offensive players which people on this site seem to believe best offensive players equals best overall players. Then he won’t play.


If you actually want to play the 10 most impactful players because half the game is played on defense then he should play because he is the only perimeter defender on the team outside of maybe bullock and he’s hurt.

[GONYK]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

If you want the 10 best offensive players which people on this site seem to believe best offensive players equals best overall players. Then he won’t play.


If you actually want to play the 10 most impactful players because half the game is played on defense then he should play because he is the only perimeter defender on the team outside of maybe bullock and he’s hurt.

...and Frank + any great rim protector (like KP or Mitch) results in one of the top defenses in the league.

Which should matter if you are trying to win games.

[Chanel Bomber]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

If you want the 10 best offensive players which people on this site seem to believe best offensive players equals best overall players. Then he won’t play.


If you actually want to play the 10 most impactful players because half the game is played on defense then he should play because he is the only perimeter defender on the team outside of maybe bullock and he’s hurt.

I understand the value of defense. But Frank's edge on defense versus his competition doesn't make up for the enormous gap in offensive efficiency/ability in my opinion. He's been historically inept on the offensive side, and sorry but he's regressed (or stagnated if you prefer) defensively from his rookie season. He's a good defender, but let's not act as if he were this All-NBA wing defender while the other guards are complete liabilities on that end. As an example, DSJ has shown fight defensively and the new DRAYMOND metric actually corroborates that. Not saying he's all that either.

In any case, I was only saying he needs to earn his minutes and that they shouldn't be "given" to him. I don't see how that's unreasonable, however you consider earning minutes should be defined. I'm not saying he should rot on the bench either. He still has room to improve. But he needs to show a lot more. His .417 TS% was worst in the league amongst rotation players who played more than 6 games last year. Sorry if I need to see more from him.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

Because Frank has much more room to grow then players like Ellington, Payton, and Dot and has shown he can be a very good defender which is very valuable. Frank does needs to get better, but he also needs to play consistently to get better. Its not about giving Frank a pass, its more so about investing the time so that he gets better. It would be much more worthwhile then playing say Ellington.

[Chanel Bomber]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

Because Frank has much more room to grow then players like Ellington, Payton, and Dot and has shown he can be a very good defender which is very valuable. Frank does needs to get better, but he also needs to play consistently to get better. Its not about giving Frank a pass, its more so about investing the time so that he gets better. It would be much more worthwhile then playing say Ellington.

I disagree in that sense:

Ellington provides spacing for RJ and DSJ (two players with a higher upside), which is terrific for their development.

Frank's development as a guy who absolutely and positively can't shoot, drive or cut comes at the expense of the other prospects' development, unless he starts showing immediate significant improvement. I wouldn't be saying that if he had not been historically bad in those areas of the game. But the fact is that he's been inept both on and off the ball, and there are ripple effects if you keep playing him and he doesn't start producing at a respectable level.

[god shammgod]

how you guys can still argue about frank this much is beyond me. if he can shoot the 3 decently he'll play this year, if not he won't. that's about it in a nutshell.

[Polk377]

So is Frank a PG?

Frank is best as a playmaking wing. Frank and RJ Barrett are actually very similar in their skillsets. Difference between the 2 is RJ has the confidence to put any and everything up. Frank should be RJ's main backup.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I don't get the "Hopefully" part. If he can't beat DSJ, Payton, Trier, RJ, Ellington, Dot and earn his minutes, what is there to "hope" for?

Why should Frank be "given" consistent minutes? Nah, he needs to earn those minutes.

I'm tired of hearing about what he should be given or what chances he is owed when he's been one of the worst rotation players in the entire NBA in his first two seasons. He needs to be held accountable by the organization and Knicks fans alike. Not coming at you personally aside from the first paragraph, your post just elicited this reaction from me.

Because Frank has much more room to grow then players like Ellington, Payton, and Dot and has shown he can be a very good defender which is very valuable. Frank does needs to get better, but he also needs to play consistently to get better. Its not about giving Frank a pass, its more so about investing the time so that he gets better. It would be much more worthwhile then playing say Ellington.

I disagree in that sense:

Ellington provides spacing for RJ and DSJ (two players with a higher upside), which is terrific for their development.

Frank's development as a guy who absolutely and positively can't shoot, drive or cut comes at the expense of the other prospects' development, unless he starts showing immediate significant improvement. I wouldn't be saying that if he had not been historically bad in those areas of the game. But the fact is that he's been inept both on and off the ball, and there are ripple effects if you keep playing him and he doesn't start producing at a respectable level.

I agree we need spacing and Ellington would help more right now. Will he make any difference to their long term outlook or us long term? Probably not. I would say Frank would have a better shot at helping us long term.

I just would not give up Frank just yet. Not playing him would be basically giving up on him. I didnt even want to draft him either. I think he's the type that needs to play in a defined role so hope he gets a shot this year. Or maybe not.

[mpharris36]

how you guys can still argue about frank this much is beyond me. if he can shoot the 3 decently he'll play this year, if not he won't. that's about it in a nutshell.

if they want to win this year they better hope he shoots it well. Otherwise there team has no chance to defend anyone. They are going to be that bad defensively.

[cgmw]

how you guys can still argue about frank this much is beyond me. if he can shoot the 3 decently he'll play this year, if not he won't. that's about it in a nutshell.

Oh come on, that’s simplistic AF.

Frank is a proxy for at least the following heuristic ideologues:

-PMFJB vs Perry
-Team Ball vs Hero Ball
-Defense vs Offense
-Euro vs USA
-Gallo vs Will
-Lin vs Melo
-D’Antoni vs Woodson
-Donnie vs Zeke
-Draft vs Free Agent
-Rebuild vs Retool
-The Fizdale-Mudiay Singularity

[HarthorneWingo]

I still have hope for him, but adding vets to a already crowded backcourt sucks..

Payton and Bullock are the only guards we signed and Bullock will be out for a while. In any event, we need to figure out this year who stays and who goes out of Frank, Dennis, Dotson, Trier, and Knox. And maybe even RJ.

I look at a lot of these signees, other than Randle, as insurance policies this season while we figure out what we have as we try to develop these kids.

I think PG position is the only real battle that involves a vet player. That's Payton....25 years old. Barret/Trier/Dotson are battling each other. Knox will come off the bench behind Morris until the deadline. Iggy will have to outplay Knox for any minutes he gets before then. Randle is the starting PF and Mitch the starting C.

Frank has to really show improvement to get any minutes. So far...career wise...he's 3rd string. I'm a huge supporter of Frank but...he's got to step up big this season. Payton/DSJ are in his way.

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

[MaseInYourFace]

how you guys can still argue about frank this much is beyond me. if he can shoot the 3 decently he'll play this year, if not he won't. that's about it in a nutshell.

if they want to win this year they better hope he shoots it well. Otherwise there team has no chance to defend anyone. They are going to be that bad defensively.

That’s a lot of impact you are putting on Frank. I don’t quite agree. He would improve our defense of course though.

[MaseInYourFace]

Payton and Bullock are the only guards we signed and Bullock will be out for a while. In any event, we need to figure out this year who stays and who goes out of Frank, Dennis, Dotson, Trier, and Knox. And maybe even RJ.

I look at a lot of these signees, other than Randle, as insurance policies this season while we figure out what we have as we try to develop these kids.

I think PG position is the only real battle that involves a vet player. That's Payton....25 years old. Barret/Trier/Dotson are battling each other. Knox will come off the bench behind Morris until the deadline. Iggy will have to outplay Knox for any minutes he gets before then. Randle is the starting PF and Mitch the starting C.

Frank has to really show improvement to get any minutes. So far...career wise...he's 3rd string. I'm a huge supporter of Frank but...he's got to step up big this season. Payton/DSJ are in his way.

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

Frank hasn’t even shown he can handle the basics of PG position at a collegiate level.

[Zenzibar]

I think PG position is the only real battle that involves a vet player. That's Payton....25 years old. Barret/Trier/Dotson are battling each other. Knox will come off the bench behind Morris until the deadline. Iggy will have to outplay Knox for any minutes he gets before then. Randle is the starting PF and Mitch the starting C.

Frank has to really show improvement to get any minutes. So far...career wise...he's 3rd string. I'm a huge supporter of Frank but...he's got to step up big this season. Payton/DSJ are in his way.

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

Frank hasn’t even shown he can handle the basics of PG position at a collegiate level.

As an 18-19 year old, if Mitch would have been a top ten NCAA player, so would Frank with his defense.

[Jalen Bluntson]

I think PG position is the only real battle that involves a vet player. That's Payton....25 years old. Barret/Trier/Dotson are battling each other. Knox will come off the bench behind Morris until the deadline. Iggy will have to outplay Knox for any minutes he gets before then. Randle is the starting PF and Mitch the starting C.

Frank has to really show improvement to get any minutes. So far...career wise...he's 3rd string. I'm a huge supporter of Frank but...he's got to step up big this season. Payton/DSJ are in his way.

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

Frank hasn’t even shown he can handle the basics of PG position at a collegiate level.

Yeah...it isn't wide open and...Elf/DSJ don't have near as much to prove as Frank does. Not even close. I'm a Frank fan all day. I don't think he's gotten any kind of chance to play the point at all here. I also don't think he's shown anything outside of being a good defender. He really needs to show something on the offensive side of the ball if he wants to stick around.

[mpharris36]

how you guys can still argue about frank this much is beyond me. if he can shoot the 3 decently he'll play this year, if not he won't. that's about it in a nutshell.

if they want to win this year they better hope he shoots it well. Otherwise there team has no chance to defend anyone. They are going to be that bad defensively.

That’s a lot of impact you are putting on Frank. I don’t quite agree. He would improve our defense of course though.

im under the assumption that our offense will be ok. Randle can score, morris will score. I assume we will get uptick from our guard play with some combo of DSJ/RJ/Payton. Let's assume a bit of improvement from Knox and our bench with Portis/Ellington/Dotson/Trier some combo of that will score as well.

The one thing we will not be able to do will be defend anyone. We have a lot of poor defenders. Not directed at you, but I don't want to hear about team defense crap. Defense is a skill and if you have a majority of your guys who are playing strong rotation minutes as poor defenders the team will struggle.

It's might seem like a lot of impact but I truly believe the numbers back that up. When Frank plays alongside a rim protecting big like KP/Mitch we are a top 5 defensive team the analytics show. As you know we haven't been a good defensive team in years and my assumption is unless Frank plays consistent minutes I don't like our odds to be a good defensive team either if you see some of the other guys that will be logging more minutes. Outside of Mitch and Morris I don't see an impact defender in the bunch.

[Polk377]

I think PG position is the only real battle that involves a vet player. That's Payton....25 years old. Barret/Trier/Dotson are battling each other. Knox will come off the bench behind Morris until the deadline. Iggy will have to outplay Knox for any minutes he gets before then. Randle is the starting PF and Mitch the starting C.

Frank has to really show improvement to get any minutes. So far...career wise...he's 3rd string. I'm a huge supporter of Frank but...he's got to step up big this season. Payton/DSJ are in his way.

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

Frank hasn’t even shown he can handle the basics of PG position at a collegiate level.

If you define the basics as come up the floor, dribble around for 20 seconds and take an ill advised shot then yes, Frank has not.

I don't know what you have been watching but the kid is as fundamentally sound as they come as a playmaker. Frank gets the ball early, pushes the pace, keeps his head up and more times than not hits the right man. He also has patience and allows the 2nd or 3rd option to get free. The only thing holding him back has been his inconsistent jump shot. Everything else he is average to good at.

With that said, I do think Frank should play more wing than PG this year.

[MaseInYourFace]

The PG position is wide open. It has to be that way. It's the only way Frank gets a fair shot. And, let's be honest here, DSJ and Payton have just as much to prove. DSJ has to show that he has fixed his jumper and can lead the team. Payton is on a one-year deal with a team option, so he has to prove himself. And Frank, of course, has to show that he's gotten over his case of the jitters and is ready to show the team what he can do. It's go-time for all three. I just don't trust The Great Communicator, Slat Club Soda.

I wish we could put some of DSJ's fearlessness into Frank's body. If we only could combine them.

Frank hasn’t even shown he can handle the basics of PG position at a collegiate level.

If you define the basics as come up the floor, dribble around for 20 seconds and take an ill advised shot then yes, Frank has not.

I don't know what you have been watching but the kid is as fundamentally sound as they come as a playmaker. Frank gets the ball early, pushes the pace, keeps his head up and more times than not hits the right man. He also has patience and allows the 2nd or 3rd option to get free. The only thing holding him back has been his inconsistent jump shot. Everything else he is average to good at.

With that said, I do think Frank should play more wing than PG this year.

I’m referring to his tentativeness, inability to keep his dribble, inability to break down the defense or get in the lane. These are things that should be fundamental for a PG at this level.