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Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1441 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:44 pm

ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


The Magic may not have that #1 option backcourt/forward "finisher" that is vital in the post-season, but they are pretty deep. At least that's how it looks on paper.

I for one, am very intrigued by the forward rotation of Gordon/JI/Aminu. Baring injuries, this year there will always be at minimum two high level versatile defenders roaming the floor. There should be a seamless defensive continuity at the forward positions.

If Clifford is able to balance minutes from top to bottom, it should hypothetically help the team have fresher legs for a late season/post season push. It should also help balance out the offense/defense equation in regards to stamina required to play high level 2-way ball for everyone.

Of note, three of the Magic starters were near the top of the NBA in total minutes played: (15th) Gordon-2653 (26th) Fournier-2553 and (33d) Vucevic-2510 ...improved depth should help manage that

depth helps you in the regular season, but that depth we had last year didnt do squat in the playoffs.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1442 » by JBSouthpaw » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:59 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


The Magic may not have that #1 option backcourt/forward "finisher" that is vital in the post-season, but they are pretty deep. At least that's how it looks on paper.

I for one, am very intrigued by the forward rotation of Gordon/JI/Aminu. Baring injuries, this year there will always be at minimum two high level versatile defenders roaming the floor. There should be a seamless defensive continuity at the forward positions.

If Clifford is able to balance minutes from top to bottom, it should hypothetically help the team have fresher legs for a late season/post season push. It should also help balance out the offense/defense equation in regards to stamina required to play high level 2-way ball for everyone.

Of note, three of the Magic starters were near the top of the NBA in total minutes played: (15th) Gordon-2653 (26th) Fournier-2553 and (33d) Vucevic-2510 ...improved depth should help manage that

depth helps you in the regular season, but that depth we had last year didnt do squat in the playoffs.



***Against the NBA Champions.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1443 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:21 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
Read on Twitter


The Magic may not have that #1 option backcourt/forward "finisher" that is vital in the post-season, but they are pretty deep. At least that's how it looks on paper.

I for one, am very intrigued by the forward rotation of Gordon/JI/Aminu. Baring injuries, this year there will always be at minimum two high level versatile defenders roaming the floor. There should be a seamless defensive continuity at the forward positions.

If Clifford is able to balance minutes from top to bottom, it should hypothetically help the team have fresher legs for a late season/post season push. It should also help balance out the offense/defense equation in regards to stamina required to play high level 2-way ball for everyone.

Of note, three of the Magic starters were near the top of the NBA in total minutes played: (15th) Gordon-2653 (26th) Fournier-2553 and (33d) Vucevic-2510 ...improved depth should help manage that

depth helps you in the regular season, but that depth we had last year didnt do squat in the playoffs.



***Against the NBA Champions.

the Clippers beat a full strength GS team twice at Golden State. and i remember people saying they wanted to play Toronto, that they thought we matched up better.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1444 » by ezzzp » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:53 pm

tiderulz wrote:
fendilim wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

i agree with all except the underlined. AG is only 23, he is still young


He's still young, turns 24 before training camp. You do have to balance out age with how many minutes and how much USG he's been given in that span.

He's now approaching 10k NBA minutes played and in the past 3 seasons he's also had a big role in the offense with a 20.1, 24.7, and 21.8 USG rate.

In those 3 years, Aaron Gordon has twice been #1 and once #2 in FGA's off-the-bounce for the Magic. So he's had the ball in his hands to test if he can handle that role.

Here is how AG compares with Oladipo and Tobias Harris in that aspect during that 21 to 23 age range:

• Pull-Up Shooting

AARON GORDON
(21): 239 FGA's (.331 FG%) / 65 3PA's (.231 3P%) / .362 eFG%
(22): 254 FGA's (.295 FG%) / 105 3PA's (.219 3P%) / .341 eFG%
(23): 265 FGA's (.362 FG%) / 93 3PA's (.323 3P%) / .419 eFG%
(AVG): 252 FGA's (.329 FG%) / 88 3PA's (.258 3P%) / .374 eFG%

VICTOR OLADIPO
(21): 308 FGA's (.360 FG%) / 57 3PA's (.281 3P%) / .480 eFG%
(22): 318 FGA's (.384 FG%) / 72 3PA's (.361 3P%) / .425 eFG%
(23): 344 FGA's (.422 FG%) / 59 3PA's (.271 3P%) / .445 eFG%
(AVG): 323 FGA's (.389 FG%) / 63 3PA's (.304 3P%) / .450 eFG%

TOBIAS HARRIS
(21): 131 FGA's (.450 FG%) / 10 3PA's (.200 3P%) / .458 eFG%
(22): 174 FGA's (.379 FG%) / 20 3PA's (.250 3P%) / .394 eFG%
(23): 121 FGA's (.374 FG%) / 13 3PA's (.341 3P%) / .395 eFG%
(AVG): 142 FGA's (.401 FG%) / 14 3PA's (.264 3P%) / .416 eFG%


• Driving

AARON GORDON
(21): 276 drives / 134 FGA's (.396 FG%) / 9.1 AST% - 5.1 TOV%
(22): 301 drives / 145 FGA's (.379 FG%) / 6.6 AST% - 9.3 TOV%
(23): 466 drives / 205 FGA's (.429 FG%) / 10.3 AST% - 10.3 TOV%
(AVG): 348 drives / 128 FGA's (.401 FG%) / 8.7 AST% - 8.2 TOV%

VICTOR OLADIPO
(21): 716 drives / 317 FGA's (.445 FG%) / 6.4 AST% - 9.2 TOV%
(22): 907 drives / 398 FGA's (.415 FG%) / 9.0 AST% - 7.5 TOV%
(23): 570 drives / 234 FGA's (.393 FG%) / 10.4 AST% - 6.8 TOV%
(AVG): 731 drives / 316 FGA's (.418 FG%) / 8.6 AST% - 7.8 TOV%

TOBIAS HARRIS
(21): 169 drives / 110 FGA's (.445 FG%) / 3.0 AST% - 8.3 TOV%
(22): 333 drives / 192 FGA's (.417 FG%) / 3.9 AST% - 7.2 TOV%
(23): 397 drives / 191 FGA's (.429 FG%) / 8.3 AST% - 6.0 TOV%
(AVG): 300 drives / 164 FGA's (.430 FG%) / 5.1 AST% - 7.2 TOV%
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1445 » by MoMM » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:29 pm

tiderulz wrote:
fendilim wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

i agree with all except the underlined. AG is only 23, he is still young

Agreed, he isn't a prospect anymore, but saying that he isn't young? Come on, Oladipo made his jump to all-star when was 25. AG is kind of 5 years away from being a finished product.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1446 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:14 am

tiderulz wrote:depth helps you in the regular season, but that depth we had last year didnt do squat in the playoffs.


The Magic didn't really have depth last year. While MCW, Iwundu and Birch were fine for our context, they are not what anyone would call playoff caliber depth.

This year, they added Aminu + everyone now has some playoff experience. So there is more "playoff" depth as is. In addition, even though its purely speculative, the addition of Bamba and Fultz could also create a much more impactful depth (in relation to the post-season).

• Back Up PG

Spoiler:
Even without the capacity to shoot, Fultz will be an upgrade as a back up PG. He might not be the defender that MCW is, but he can score in the paint and is just a much more potent scoring threat.

(18-19 Minutes: Augustin 2269 / Grant 1028 / Fultz 427 / Briscoe 559 / MCW 372 )

Drives
Augustin: 805 drives / 260 FGA's (.492)
Fultz: 140 drives / 66 FGA's (.515)
MCW: 165 drives / 56 FGA's (.393)
---
Briscoe: 163 drives / 55 FGA's (.455)
Grant: 202 drives / 53 FGA's (.377)


Pick and Roll Ball Handler
Augustin: 424 possessions / 0.96 PPP / 318 FGA's (.450)
Fultz: 67 possessions / 0.91 PPP / 54 FGA's (.500)
MCW: 24 possessions / 0.74 PPP / 19 FGA's (.421)
---
Briscoe: 74 possessions / 0.64 PPP / 53 FGA's (.358)
Grant: 94 possessions / 0.69 PPP / 66 FGA's (.379)


Inside 10'
Augustin: 270 FGA's (.537)
Fultz: 76 FGA's (.553)
MCW: 75 FGA's (.453)
---
Briscoe: 61 FGA's (.525)
Grant: 43 FGA's (.488)


• Forward



Spoiler:
Aminu vs Iwundu/Martin is an instant improvement in shooting and offensive versatility...not to mention rebounding, screening and all the other intangibles that Aminu brings.

(18-19 Minutes: Gordon 2633 / Isaac 1996 / Aminu 2292 minutes / Iwundu 1233 / Martin 328 )

Advanced Stats
Gordon: +2.0 VORP / +1.0 BPM / 5.1 WS / 15.1 PER / .538 TS%
Isaac: +1.1 VORP / +0.1 BPM / 4.0 WS / 13.0 PER / .537 TS%
Aminu: +1.7 VORP / +0.9 BPM / 5.8 WS / 13.2 PER / .568 TS%
---
Iwundu: -0.2 VORP / -2.6 BPM / 1.9 WS / 8.7 PER / .531 TS%
Martin: -0.2 VORP / -3.9 BPM / 0.5 WS / 9.4 PER / .528 TS%


Catch and Shoot 3PA's
Gordon: 241 3PA's (.365 3P%)
Isaac: 244 3PA's (.328 3P%)
Aminu: 260 3PA's (.358 3P%)
---
Iwundu: 73 3PA's (.370 3P%)
Martin: 53 3PA's (.377 3P%)


Drives
Gordon: 466 drives / 205 FGA's (.429)
Isaac: 129 drives / 65 FGA's (.492)
Aminu: 222 drives / 114 FGA's (.465)
---
Iwundu: 124 drives / 59 FGA's (.275)
Martin: 11 drives / 6 FGA's (.667)


Cuts
Gordon: 90 possessions / 1.38 PPP / 80 FGA's (.688 FG%)
Isaac: 77 possessions / 1.23 PPP / 61 FGA's (.623 FG%)
Aminu: 76 possessions / 1.18 PPP / 54 FGA's (.648 FG%)
---
Iwundu: 25 possessions / 0.88 PPP / 19 FGA's (.526 FG%)
Martin: 0 possessions / 0 PPP / 0 FGA's (.000 FG% )


• Back up C

Spoiler:
The hope is that Bamba is ready to step into the back up C role asap.

Having a big that can shoot will make a difference to the awful spacing once the bench started to get subbed in. Hypothetically Bamba should be a superior player than Birch. Its not crazy to think that Bamba can begin to meet those expectations at some point this season.

I'm starting to get the sense that a lot of Magic fans have swung from massively over-rating Bamba prior to the season, to now dramatically under estimating him. He's still physically not there yet and is still very raw, but there is a lot of ability there that Birch will just never have.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1447 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:57 am

tiderulz wrote:the Clippers beat a full strength GS team twice at Golden State. and i remember people saying they wanted to play Toronto, that they thought we matched up better.


The Magic beat the full strength NBA champion once at Toronto...and there were a ton of people who preferred Philly (not Toronto).

Also, the Magic were the second youngest team in the playoffs...just barely behind Brooklyn.

LAC playoff experience going into the first round compared to the Magic (games):

G-Alexander 0 / Beverley 27 / L Shamet 0 / D Gallinari 16 / Green 15
Williams 52 / Temple 20 / Chandler 11 / Harrell 7 / Zubac 0

Augustin 28 / Fournier 4 / Isaac 0 / Gordon 0 / Vucevic 1
MCW 11 / Ross 31 / Iwundu 0 / Birch 0
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1448 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:48 am

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1449 » by Blue_and_Whte » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:00 am

tiderulz wrote:
fendilim wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:I'd do AG for DJ if we know the Fultz isn't going to contribute. That seems fair for both teams at this point.

Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

i agree with all except the underlined. AG is only 23, he is still young

Not around here he’s not.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1450 » by VFX » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:16 pm

Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1451 » by basketballRob » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:23 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
fendilim wrote:Regardless of Fultz, I think an AG for DLo will be good for us. Now imagine if Fultz comes back healthy, suddenly we have a really nice scoring backcourt.

This team needs a scorer.

Gordon isn't young either. He's been in the league for 5 years already. And we also have Isaac and Okeke waiting behind.

i agree with all except the underlined. AG is only 23, he is still young

Not around here he’s not.


It depends what point they're arguing.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1452 » by rcklsscognition » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:21 pm

Read on Twitter


T Ross on a podcast here.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1453 » by ezzzp » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:24 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.


A lot of excellent franchises accumulate assets and then convert them to that star player. It isn't some "crazy" strategy, its a very sound and proven method.

Some fans assume that the current roster make up is somehow a long term commitment...it isn't. For one, contract lengths are 4-5 years at most. That automatically creates a steady and natural roster turnover. A lot of players are signing shorter contracts + player movement is rapidly increasing.

The roster you see now, will be a very different roster in a couple of years...that's true of every team.

I don't think anyone is saying this is an 03-04 Piston's scenario, in fact this is the first time I've seen or heard any Magic fan make this claim.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1454 » by The Real Dalic » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:33 pm

MagicMatic wrote:Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.

It isn't a Pistons situation, but it's nice to have good depth at all times. It means we have a lot of good and tradeable assets, it means we can trade almost anyone and have someone that can replace them, and in the event we sign/trade for a star we would have the necessary depth to make good long runs in the playoffs.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1455 » by VFX » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:36 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.

It isn't a Pistons situation, but it's nice to have good depth at all times. It means we have a lot of good and tradeable assets, it means we can trade almost anyone and have someone that can replace them, and in the event we sign/trade for a star we would have the necessary depth to make good long runs in the playoffs.


Hence the second part of my statement. Which players do you see as potential “trade for star talent” types?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1456 » by The Real Dalic » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:43 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.

It isn't a Pistons situation, but it's nice to have good depth at all times. It means we have a lot of good and tradeable assets, it means we can trade almost anyone and have someone that can replace them, and in the event we sign/trade for a star we would have the necessary depth to make good long runs in the playoffs.


Hence the second part of my statement. Which players do you see as potential “trade for star talent” types?

I was just agreeing with your overall statement while expanding on it a little bit.

However, I can see all of Gordon, Isaac, Fournier, and Bamba as players we can trade to get a star back. AG and Isaac especially have the most value on our team. Bamba then Fournier after. We also have all of our picks and a couple extra from other teams. The Magic can absolutely make something happen, the question is, will they? And for who?

If Beal were readily available, I'm sure we would stop at nothing to get him. But lesser "star talents" I'm just not seeing it yet. One of the best qualities from this current FO is patience. However, I hope we don't pull an Ainge and sqaunder all of our assets in the name of patience. You need to take a risk sometimes. Hopefully they take that risk if ever there is an opportunity available.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1457 » by ezzzp » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:16 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:Having great depth without a go-to star player is a carriage before the horse scenario. That is unless they plan on making a trade, or someone significantly steps up out of nowhere...

And no, this isn’t the 03-04 Pistons roster talent wise.

It isn't a Pistons situation, but it's nice to have good depth at all times. It means we have a lot of good and tradeable assets, it means we can trade almost anyone and have someone that can replace them, and in the event we sign/trade for a star we would have the necessary depth to make good long runs in the playoffs.


Hence the second part of my statement. Which players do you see as potential “trade for star talent” types?


Everyone.

What matters is what you are exchanging for and what salary trade ballast is required....how many years are left on the incoming player's contract...his age and stage of career...health history etc.

There is no untradable player on the Magic, there hasn't been one in 8 years.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1458 » by KillMonger » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Uhh why is it taking so long to sign Jeffries? Or hell even chuma?

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1459 » by MasterGMer » Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:01 pm

Is it still the time to finish trades before training camp? Or we have to wait till season starts?

I do not think a DLo trade is feasible
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F 

Post#1460 » by tiderulz » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:04 pm

Solid Snake wrote:Uhh why is it taking so long to sign Jeffries? Or hell even chuma?

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thread on the board, he refused a lesser contract and wants a full NBA contract.

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