Lowe / Windhorst: Inside a tense NBA owners meeting

[Kingsway_fan]

Weakest commissioner in sports

[Chevy Chase]

This will only change when a team who's star has asked for a trade 1-2 years early, makes the star play out his contract. Of course this ensures that the team will tank those seasons and receive noting for their star, but it will send a message.

[sule]

well this is not a problem for about 90-95% of the players in the league. Its a select few superstars and all stars that can command this type of collusion. The problem is this <5% fo the league have figured out that they can manipulate the NBA and its obviously getting out of hand. You have to set better rules than ensure these few players can't wreck the chance at parity. If the top 5-10 players always weasel out of their contracts and force their way into top few teams, it undermines all the efforts at parity over the last few decades. So the league will do something. otherwise, this could kill teams like milwaukee, charlotte, etc.

Also, these players often seem to use the narrative, of its us vs. the rich executives. But in this scenario of collusion during free agency, we're not talking about rich executives vs. the margnialized nba player. Its literally 100M+ net worth players forcing their way into markets where they can increase their net worth even more. So the executive in this scenario is poorer than the superstars, most of them by a large margin. These players don't deserve the right to break out mid-contract and bolt. that's absurd. Kawhi, Kemba, etc. can go wherever they want. But Paul George to make demands mid-contract should automatically come with a huge penalty that he gives up to make that happen.

I'd probably add to your argument that these superstars colluding is resulting in less overall money for role players and non-superstar players. Those players are being forced to choose between non-competiveness at slightly higher salaries or playing on competitive teams for minimum salaries.

A bunch of these guys are now taking less money on shorter deals, which completely undermines the Players' Associations' efforts to bargain for better wages for players. Since the new era of Golden State we've actually seen the salary cap shrink, which is counter to the argument that big markets winning and dynasties are good for the league.

Secondary and tertiary players are now forced to sign smaller deals for less years b/c relative to what superstars are taking to manipulate the market, their value is dropping. Not that they're starving, but their share of the pie is decreasing. Doesn't help that the salary cap hasn't been raised yet the league added two more roster spots (minimum salary positions or otherwise, it cuts into overall money for each player).

Whats exacerbated the issue is that Chris Paul, another one of LeBron's posse members, is the Players Rep, and he's pushed for rules and changes that benefit the top players and not all the players.

LeBron's posse have ruined the league with their infiltration of various positions of power. I'd love to see a lockout by the owners to facilitate real changes and actual regulation of these activities.

[sule]

This current situation is going to be the real legacy of LeBron James and The Heatles. It's all been spiraling out of control ever since then. LeBron and his posse have figured out every way to skirt basic ethics and it's something every player now feels compelled to skirt as well.

Woah woah woah

Basic ethics? What basic ethics are broken here?

We are talking about potential, rumoured, violations of rules that are intended to restrict the ability of people to negotiate their own deals.

So he asked for a plane. So what? Drake was all about getting Kawhi a plane and a producer credit. So he pressured LAC into a trade. So what? LAC didn’t have to.

You think it's ethical to tamper like the Clippers did all year? Or how the Lakers did with Paul George?

You think it's ethical the way players are negotiating contracts with teams prior to Free Agency opening up? Or negotiating movement from one team to another despite being contracted to other teams?

You think it's ethical for non-certified people to be repping clients in negotiations? And for them to be demanding perks from teams outside the mutually agreed upon collective bargaining agreement? Or that it's ethical for players to lie to their teams, ownerships, teammates, and fans? Discussing with other players to demand trades to stack the decks for championships?


People who argue for these things have clearly never been in a professional environment, or have operated in places where ethics are necessary.

[sule]

This will only change when a team who's star has asked for a trade 1-2 years early, makes the star play out his contract. Of course this ensures that the team will tank those seasons and receive noting for their star, but it will send a message.

I've made the argument on this board that trade demands by players should be done through the league office, and should have a 30-day window of opportunity for trade before the players is released from their contract without the remainder of their pay, unless they rescind their request. That way, a player would have to sacrifice the remainder of their salary. You want out? Fine. But if you aren't traded, you lose your pay. So you better think twice. In such cases, teams would also be able to be free from being forced to take on contracts and players they don't want just b/c one player wants out.

People forget that trades that result in other players being moved in return, means multiple players have to uproot their families and lives too. Just b/c a Paul George wants to play somewhere else and get paid his supermax shouldn't mean 3 other players are forced to uproot their lives just to facilitate Paul George.

[SwiftyV]

This will only change when a team who's star has asked for a trade 1-2 years early, makes the star play out his contract. Of course this ensures that the team will tank those seasons and receive noting for their star, but it will send a message.

The Lakers did it with Kobe when he wanted a trade. They just said nah...and we know the rest.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

If you don't enforce the rules people will keep pushing the limits. The cheating will intensify until you lay down the hammer with some suspensions and draft picks given up so people won't mess around in the future. if nothing is done everyone should just walk all over the commissioner like he's a rug. Hell, they are already doing it seems.

[OAKLEY_2]

I would be fining the fk out of Kawhi's camp for hounding-recruiting a player under contract prompting the requesting of trades to join other free agents. I would like to see the team receiving the player fined and the team facilitating the trade fined. I am not bitter that a player chooses to leave a team but I think a team losing a marquee Max player should also receive some compensation.

I would peg compensation at one first round pick and 10 million dollars for players under 34.

Under this scenario Kawhi doesn't team with George on the tampering trolling Clippers but signs with L.A. and the Lakers give the Raptors a first rounder and ten million.

[Mascot]

With the primadonnas in the NBA now, there is nothing they can do to stop the players from deciding that they want to play together.

The only chance they have it to change the difference in the max the team retaining the player can offer, and that might not even work. 4 Years max with multiple PO at 30% and another team can only offer 3 or something with no PO at 20%

[sule]

With the primadonnas in the NBA now, there is nothing they can do to stop the players from deciding that they want to play together.

The only chance they have it to change the difference in the max the team retaining the player can offer, and that might not even work. 4 Years max with multiple PO at 30% and another team can only offer 3 or something with no PO at 20%

Maybe a new rule that max contracts (or contracts within 10%) come with a mandatory no-trade clause for both the player and the team for the duration of the contract? Teams would have to honour their commitment to the player and in such cases would be required to at least attempt to compete when they have a max player. And the players would have to honour those contracts. If they want the freedom to request a trade, then they'd have to sign for less than the max. Also, players requesting a trade would have to submit a formal request to the NBA head office, resulting in a 30-day period where both team and player would have to agree to a trade, and if the player doesn't get traded or rescinds their request, then they are automatically released from the contract without formal pay. Teams wouldn't end up straddled with bad contracts they were forced to take in return for said player, and returning players wouldn't be forced to be moved from their current teams.

And strictly enforce the tampering rules in free agency signings with loss of draft pick(s), depending on graded salaries of players, with one 1st rounder compensated for every $10 million per annum the player earns. And strictly enforce the moratorium period for negotiations.

Also, apply tampering rules to both players and teams equally. Players would still talk, but if information leaks, then the rules should be strictly applied.

Of course, none of this would happen b/c Silver is a pansy that enjoys f*cking over the fans. Nevermind that the league isn't making the money they thought they would, which has resulted in the salary cap decreasing over the last couple years.

[RonaldArtest]

The Uncle Dennis Provision....I love it.

[OakleyDokely]

Here's what we know about the Clippers recent history:

*Organization fined 250K for anti-circumvention rules (DeAndre Jordan)
*Doc Rivers fined 50K for tampering (Kawhi)
*Organization sent "scouts" to Raptors games all season
*Organization attempted to buy Klaw logo from Nike midseason
*They have a bunch of players who took much less to stay (Lou / Beverley)
*They signed the player (Kawhi) who reportedly asked for items outside the scope of the CBA
*They hired SI's Lee Jenkins and have since received favorable coverage from media sources like Woj


If I'm the NBA, I know where I start the investigation.

[carlosey]

PLayers have pushed the limits and are running the show with a radical sense of entitlement. There is no good faith in anything they are doing. You can thank Lebron for that.

They say, "if you can trade me where you want, then I can request to be traded to where I want. But if I get injured and cant play, you are on the hook till Im done." Owners have to take control again.

The rules and committing to a large contract is not seen as a special privilege but as a personal right they can force to their preference.

The fact you have uncle denis representing Kawhi, and asking for things outside the CBA likely funneling funds to other individuals shows how much of a country club it has become. They know they can get away with it.

All you have to do is look at the Clipeprs and see how Balmers money outside the CBA is at work. The kawhi situation shows this isnt about the competitive nature of the sport, but of side dealings. Same for all players in negociations with otehr teams management while still under contract to other teams.

The FBI will eventually jump in because of its previous dealings with Tim Dounhaghy. So either they investigate and come down with the hammer, then excerisce massive chagnes in the next CBA or you have a corruption stink.

I speculate here but there could be more behind all this, maybe money laundering, tax evasion etc. Stern did say one day "I know where the bodies are buried". The NBA should be really careful as a threshold was passed here.

[Johnny Bball]

Next CBA has to significantly address all these issues. If it doesn’t that’s ten more years of players running the show from which the nba doesn’t come back from. Players bet get ready for a dog fight, since they started one.

[PT416]

Man imagine if Kawhi's contract gets voided...

[rage2021]

lock it outtttttt babyyyy. and this time i hope its 2 years long. its been building up to this for a decade.

if im owners in Memphs, Phoenix, Charlotte, Indiana etc im telling that Tool Stern that we locking it up next round of negotiations. 2023 cant come soon enough

[LofJ]

I hope your ownership raises hell about what happened this summer. This kind of crap has to stop, the Clippers should be in a world of hurt.

[ruckus]

Where did all this resentment towards Commissioner Silver come from?

Compared to Stern, Silver has been much better for the game.

Is it because he looks like the dean from Community that incompetence is just inferred?

He's soft and everyone knows it. It's like the wild west in the NBA now. Some of the things people are doing like uncle Dennis, they wouldn't try under stern. Stern is an OG who simply wouldn't tolerate such a thing. If stern was commissioner right now, he'd be working with the FBI to find out how the clippers transferred money and property to uncle Dennis and Leonard weird looking friend Jeremy. Because we all know Leonard camp got perks. The clippers wouldn't dare to do such a thing under stern watch. Stern caught the little Joe Smith scandal. He definately would have been watching and catch the nonsense going on today.

I think Silver is the best commissioner currently in professional sports. I don't think he's soft at all. He dealt with Sterling rather swiftly and directly. He pulled the ASG from NC. He's a more socially conscious commissioner than David Stern. And while the NFL is still king of the sports market in the States, its in a decline because the NFL doesn't value the thing that makes it money - their players. Silver knows where his bread is buttered. The superstar players are what drive the league. He's not going to do anything that will impair player movement. And as far as we know, the players have been exercising their rights as governed by the CBA.

Durant to GSW was within the CBA. Lebron going back to Cleveland and then to LA was within the CBA. Even Kawhi's decision to explore free agency and to sign with LAC was within the CBA (as far as we know). If Kawhi's camp asked for sweeteners and the Clippers obliged then, that's where there would be an issue. But, if there are transactions occurring outside of the CBA I hope that the NBA investigates them and punishes the offenders accordingly.

As long as the CBA is in place, what can Silver do? The only things he can address are tampering and agreements outside of the CBA. Tampering rules have always been a paper tiger. It's basically an honour system and when there are millions of dollars involved, we all know that honour gets thrown out the window.

And c'mon, you really think stuff like this wasn't going on under Stern? Minnesota was a scapegoat. This stuff is just coming out now because the Lakers got bamboozled and are feeling hurt for losing out on Kawhi.

[Dennis 37]

With the primadonnas in the NBA now, there is nothing they can do to stop the players from deciding that they want to play together.

The only chance they have it to change the difference in the max the team retaining the player can offer, and that might not even work. 4 Years max with multiple PO at 30% and another team can only offer 3 or something with no PO at 20%

Maybe a new rule that max contracts (or contracts within 10%) come with a mandatory no-trade clause for both the player and the team for the duration of the contract? Teams would have to honour their commitment to the player and in such cases would be required to at least attempt to compete when they have a max player. And the players would have to honour those contracts. If they want the freedom to request a trade, then they'd have to sign for less than the max. Also, players requesting a trade would have to submit a formal request to the NBA head office, resulting in a 30-day period where both team and player would have to agree to a trade, and if the player doesn't get traded or rescinds their request, then they are automatically released from the contract without formal pay. Teams wouldn't end up straddled with bad contracts they were forced to take in return for said player, and returning players wouldn't be forced to be moved from their current teams.

And strictly enforce the tampering rules in free agency signings with loss of draft pick(s), depending on graded salaries of players, with one 1st rounder compensated for every $10 million per annum the player earns. And strictly enforce the moratorium period for negotiations.

Also, apply tampering rules to both players and teams equally. Players would still talk, but if information leaks, then the rules should be strictly applied.

Of course, none of this would happen b/c Silver is a pansy that enjoys f*cking over the fans. Nevermind that the league isn't making the money they thought they would, which has resulted in the salary cap decreasing over the last couple years.

If max, or near max, players want the right to request a trade at any time during their contract, they should only be eligible for 66% of the max. Teams should not be able to trade players until the draft preceding their last contract year. If they are traded during that last year, a trade kicker is added.

[Dennis 37]

Where did all this resentment towards Commissioner Silver come from?

Spoiler:

Compared to Stern, Silver has been much better for the game.

Is it because he looks like the dean from Community that incompetence is just inferred?

Spoiler:

He's soft and everyone knows it. It's like the wild west in the NBA now. Some of the things people are doing like uncle Dennis, they wouldn't try under stern. Stern is an OG who simply wouldn't tolerate such a thing. If stern was commissioner right now, he'd be working with the FBI to find out how the clippers transferred money and property to uncle Dennis and Leonard weird looking friend Jeremy. Because we all know Leonard camp got perks. The clippers wouldn't dare to do such a thing under stern watch. Stern caught the little Joe Smith scandal. He definately would have been watching and catch the nonsense going on today.

I think Silver is the best commissioner currently in professional sports.

Spoiler:

I don't think he's soft at all. He dealt with Sterling rather swiftly and directly. He pulled the ASG from NC. He's a more socially conscious commissioner than David Stern. And while the NFL is still king of the sports market in the States, its in a decline because the NFL doesn't value the thing that makes it money - their players. Silver knows where his bread is buttered. The superstar players are what drive the league. He's not going to do anything that will impair player movement. And as far as we know, the players have been exercising their rights as governed by the CBA.

Durant to GSW was within the CBA. Lebron going back to Cleveland and then to LA was within the CBA. Even Kawhi's decision to explore free agency and to sign with LAC was within the CBA (as far as we know). If Kawhi's camp asked for sweeteners and the Clippers obliged then, that's where there would be an issue. But, if there are transactions occurring outside of the CBA I hope that the NBA investigates them and punishes the offenders accordingly.

As long as the CBA is in place, what can Silver do? The only things he can address are tampering and agreements outside of the CBA. Tampering rules have always been a paper tiger. It's basically an honour system and when there are millions of dollars involved, we all know that honour gets thrown out the window.

And c'mon, you really think stuff like this wasn't going on under Stern? Minnesota was a scapegoat. This stuff is just coming out now because the Lakers got bamboozled and are feeling hurt for losing out on Kawhi.

You look for different things from a commissioner. Foremost I expect a commissioner to be fair to all teams. During Silver's first game as commissioner, he attended Raptors VS Kings. The Kings, at that time, had ownership problems and there were rumours of a move. He gifted Sacramento that win. He sat there and watched the refs hand the game to the Kings on a royal platter and said nothing. He was perfectly OK with manipulating games for non-game related reasons.

The biggest problem in the league is the mistrust of the league/ref relationship and this man proved to be no better than the last. He has done nothing to improve the confidence fans have in the refs.

Until concrete actions are taken to improve ref accountability, I will not be cheer-leading any commissioner.

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