Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[pepe1991]

Man i love summer hype, everbody is improving, next year they are all going to be best version of themselfs, they will all win MVP,DPOY, MIP, 6th man, become all nba first team members...Than seasons rolls and almost all of them are literally the same players they were 5 months ago. Maybe because in reality nothing major ever can be achived within 5 months because all of them already spent decades playing same sport to get to the level they were - 5 months ago.

[Skybox]

Man i love summer hype, everbody is improving, next year they are all going to be best version of themselfs, they will all win MVP,DPOY, MIP, 6th man, become all nba first team members...Than seasons rolls and almost all of them are literally the same players they were 5 months ago. Maybe because in reality nothing major ever can be achived within 5 months because all of them already spent decades playing same sport to get to the level they were - 5 months ago.

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

[basketballRob]

I think Cliff will be able to mess with teams sometimes by rolling out the all wingspan team. Bamba 7'10, Aminu 7'3, Isaac 7'6, Iwundu 7'1, and Fultz 6'10.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Instincts]

Man i love summer hype, everbody is improving, next year they are all going to be best version of themselfs, they will all win MVP,DPOY, MIP, 6th man, become all nba first team members...Than seasons rolls and almost all of them are literally the same players they were 5 months ago. Maybe because in reality nothing major ever can be achived within 5 months because all of them already spent decades playing same sport to get to the level they were - 5 months ago.

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

[pepe1991]

Man i love summer hype, everbody is improving, next year they are all going to be best version of themselfs, they will all win MVP,DPOY, MIP, 6th man, become all nba first team members...Than seasons rolls and almost all of them are literally the same players they were 5 months ago. Maybe because in reality nothing major ever can be achived within 5 months because all of them already spent decades playing same sport to get to the level they were - 5 months ago.

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

[basketballRob]

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

AG is only 23 so yes he can improve. If he can improve his FT shooting and increase his assists total by 50% again he'll be a borderline allstar.

Isaac isn't on the National team, he's on team select that only scrimmages with them. Boston had 3 players named to the National team, Walker, Brown, and Tatum. I'm not even sure Boston will be better than us this year.

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[Catledge]

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

I'll take exactly the same thing that he did last summer. Whatever it was led him to increase his 3FG% by .013, his FT% by .033, and his APG by 1.4. If he improves by the same amount, he will end up with .362 3FG%, .764 FT%, and 5.1 APG. Combine that with above average defense and defensive rebounding, and that is a much better player than what he was even a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but it's not a crazy thing to hope for.

[Xatticus]

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

I think it is rational to be highly skeptical about whatever comes out of the mouths of individuals that have vested interests in a positive perception.

Where I disagree with you is in the notion that you don't see significant improvements from year to year. At any given point in time, the world appears to be relatively static, but it never is. The landscape is constantly evolving and changing. Three years ago at this time, Giannis wasn't yet even an All Star. Five summers ago, the Warriors got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Nobody was predicting a dynasty. They were widely criticized that summer for backing out of the Kevin Love trade. The deal almost certainly would've gone through if Jerry West didn't threaten to resign in an effort to block it and retain Klay Thompson. Thompson was a nice young player (Gordon's age now), but Kevin Love was All-NBA and had just averaged 26.1 ppg and 12.5 rpg.

The NBA is very different from what it was just five years ago.

[pepe1991]

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

I think it is rational to be highly skeptical about whatever comes out of the mouths of individuals that have vested interests in a positive perception.

Where I disagree with you is in the notion that you don't see significant improvements from year to year. At any given point in time, the world appears to be relatively static, but it never is. The landscape is constantly evolving and changing. Three years ago at this time, Giannis wasn't yet even an All Star. Five summers ago, the Warriors got bounced in the first round of the playoffs. Nobody was predicting a dynasty. They were widely criticized that summer for backing out of the Kevin Love trade. The deal almost certainly would've gone through if Jerry West didn't threaten to resign in an effort to block it and retain Klay Thompson. Thompson was a nice young player (Gordon's age now), but Kevin Love was All-NBA and had just averaged 26.1 ppg and 12.5 rpg.

The NBA is very different from what it was just five years ago.

It's still experience vs amount of year player has done it.
Giannis didn't play basktball until he was 13. That's similar ,but less obvious case that Siakam is, who is now 25 but only plays basketball for like 8 years total.
Where vast majority of nba players who are 22-25 years old, with 13-16 years of experience in sport.
Peak of performance in sport isn't same for every player or every athlete. That's best viewed for gymnasts, their prime is in their early 20s with most of prime athletes compeating before they are 20.

Klay was 23 years old in his 3rd season ( Gordon is turning 24 in month and half ).
But in his 6th nba season Klay averaged 21+ ppg for his 3rd year straight.
But same Klay was elite shooter in year one, and by the second year elite role player. Everything extra was bonus.

5 months is long period and enough time for somebody get in shape, assuming that person didn't do jack ****t before, but for pro athlete who has done it for years and who has strict diet and planned workouts for half of decade, 5 months is just period to recover from injury, keep themselfs in shape and stay focused on future.

[pepe1991]

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

I'll take exactly the same thing that he did last summer. Whatever it was led him to increase his 3FG% by .013, his FT% by .033, and his APG by 1.4. If he improves by the same amount, he will end up with .362 3FG%, .764 FT%, and 5.1 APG. Combine that with above average defense and defensive rebounding, and that is a much better player than what he was even a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but it's not a crazy thing to hope for.

Gordon's "improvment" come from fact that Clifford cut his iso plays, he stopped take shots off dribble and allowed others to make plays for him.
That's pretty much it.
Even assist numbers are more product of being part of better system.
His passes made went from 36 per game to 40 per game.
His potential assists went from 4,6 to 6,6.

Vučević went from 5,6 pot assists to 7,0
Augustin from 8,5 to 10,1
Evanf from 5,0 to 6,9

When you put things in perpsective it's not hard to figure that it's not his individual skill that improved, but strcuture of offense changed that allows him, much like 4 other starters- to get more assists and better looks for each other.

[yoyojw17]

I think Cliff will be able to mess with teams sometimes by rolling out the all wingspan team. Bamba 7'10, Aminu 7'3, Isaac 7'6, Iwundu 7'1, and Fultz 6'10.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I thought it was closer to 7'2" or so? lol.... that extra 4 in would be intriguing tho

[basketballRob]

I think Cliff will be able to mess with teams sometimes by rolling out the all wingspan team. Bamba 7'10, Aminu 7'3, Isaac 7'6, Iwundu 7'1, and Fultz 6'10.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I thought it was closer to 7'2" or so? lol.... that extra 4 in would be intriguing tho

No he has a 7'6" wingspan now. The measurement you're referring too was from when he was a junior in HS. He was a late bloomer and had a growth spurt.

When I'm on my computer I'll post the article from John Denton that says he has a 7'6" wingspan now.

I guess all the NBA coaches and executives will find out just how long he is, when they measure him at the USA camp.


Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

I think Cliff will be able to mess with teams sometimes by rolling out the all wingspan team. Bamba 7'10, Aminu 7'3, Isaac 7'6, Iwundu 7'1, and Fultz 6'10.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I thought it was closer to 7'2" or so? lol.... that extra 4 in would be intriguing tho

Here's the link.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/strong-bond-already-forming-between-isaac-and-bamba-20180704

[yoyojw17]

I think Cliff will be able to mess with teams sometimes by rolling out the all wingspan team. Bamba 7'10, Aminu 7'3, Isaac 7'6, Iwundu 7'1, and Fultz 6'10.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I thought it was closer to 7'2" or so? lol.... that extra 4 in would be intriguing tho

Here's the link.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/strong-bond-already-forming-between-isaac-and-bamba-20180704

2 players at that size.... and that kind of versatility can be freaking special! THANKS!

[Instincts]

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

I'll take exactly the same thing that he did last summer. Whatever it was led him to increase his 3FG% by .013, his FT% by .033, and his APG by 1.4. If he improves by the same amount, he will end up with .362 3FG%, .764 FT%, and 5.1 APG. Combine that with above average defense and defensive rebounding, and that is a much better player than what he was even a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but it's not a crazy thing to hope for.

Gordon's "improvment" come from fact that Clifford cut his iso plays, he stopped take shots off dribble and allowed others to make plays for him.
That's pretty much it.
Even assist numbers are more product of being part of better system.
His passes made went from 36 per game to 40 per game.
His potential assists went from 4,6 to 6,6.

Vučević went from 5,6 pot assists to 7,0
Augustin from 8,5 to 10,1
Evanf from 5,0 to 6,9

When you put things in perpsective it's not hard to figure that it's not his individual skill that improved, but strcuture of offense changed that allows him, much like 4 other starters- to get more assists and better looks for each other.

hmmm...

So I say JI's 3pt% bumps from (.0328%) up to league average (.0355%) or above this year. What do you think??

This would be a HUGE off season improvement in 5 months and HUGE improvement for the magic roster.

And yes, good coaching helps every player, but that does not mean the individual player receives zero credit. The system and the individual player can and often would improve simultaneously.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Read on Twitter

#MUSCLEWATCH

here we go again.

[J the Drafter]

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

I'll take exactly the same thing that he did last summer. Whatever it was led him to increase his 3FG% by .013, his FT% by .033, and his APG by 1.4. If he improves by the same amount, he will end up with .362 3FG%, .764 FT%, and 5.1 APG. Combine that with above average defense and defensive rebounding, and that is a much better player than what he was even a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen, but it's not a crazy thing to hope for.

Gordon's "improvment" come from fact that Clifford cut his iso plays, he stopped take shots off dribble and allowed others to make plays for him.
That's pretty much it.
Even assist numbers are more product of being part of better system.
His passes made went from 36 per game to 40 per game.
His potential assists went from 4,6 to 6,6.

Vučević went from 5,6 pot assists to 7,0
Augustin from 8,5 to 10,1
Evanf from 5,0 to 6,9

When you put things in perpsective it's not hard to figure that it's not his individual skill that improved, but strcuture of offense changed that allows him, much like 4 other starters- to get more assists and better looks for each other.

Well if you dismiss every increase in skill, of course you’re going to be left with the improvements that are due to scheme. (And it looked to me that getting a capable strength and conditioning staff—and the increased conditioning that came with them—were the reason the team had such a good year, not anything special Clifford did.)

[Magic_Johnny12]

If anyone cares this is what the Orlando Magic look like after a couple of weeks of "REAL GM A TEAM". A lot of people mortgage their future and deal picks 6 years in advance (it's allowed in the game), but I have manged to create this roster and only owe one future protected FRP (and one coming in via another team) so essentially a wash there.

PG - D’Angelo Russell| DJ Augustine | MCW
SG - Jrue Holiday | Terrence Ross | Lonnie Walker
SF - Jonathan Isaac | Wes Iwundu | Daquan Jeffries
PF - Al Fariq Aminu | *Chuma Okeke
C - Nikola Vucevic | Khem Birch |Greg Monroe

Transactions I've done so far.

1) Jrue Holiday for Evan Fournier/Mo Bamba/FRP (lottery protected)

2) Lonnie Walker for Khem Birch/SRP

3) D'Angelo Russell/Dillon Brooks/"2026" FRP (lottery protected) for Aaron Gordon/Markelle Fultz

4) Khem Birch for Dillon Brooks/Melvin Frazier (I traded back for him, so essentially traded Dillon Brooks/Melvin Frazier/SRP for Khem Birch & Lonnie Walker )

5) Signed both Jeffries and Monroe to min. contracts.


Is this a contender in the east assuming Okeke is healthy?

[Skin]

this is, of course, true BUT...the previous few years it seemed like EVERYBODY on the roster slipped at the same time under Vogel. With Cliff last year, everybody (except Evan) seemed to improve their best. Maybe it's a perfect fluke, maybe he/we are doing something sustainable. Injuries are a wildcard, but you can very easily make a case that ORL could do surprisingly big things based on Cliff's (team) developmental history and the career phases most of our roster are entering, on an individual basis. If some of the main guys improve a very realistic 10% and one guy (Isaac, AG?) takes a leap forward...ORL becomes very relevant in the East. I love Isaac getting named to Team USA-that's a big chance to develop yourself as a peer to great players (somewhat like Oladipo's time with Westbrook-he didn't do much alongside but exploded right after).

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

[pepe1991]

Pepe, be happy, its Friday. The best day of the week.

There are of course reasons that in particular Isaac and AG would become better during this 5 month off season.
1) Age
2) Ideal Inherent skill set for development: size, athleticism, instincts, high motor, work ethic, and high character
3) Momentum - improvement occurred last year
4) Continuity
5) Coaching
6) Time - 5 months to focus on skill and weight training. Practice and weight time is limited during regular season.

Are you interested in coming up with a Isaac improvement metric and taking a side? Not sure your stance on JI's shooting, but I do believe he is in line for a nice bump in percentages. I'll say his 3pt% increases to league average (.355%) or above. What you say??

I dont think this will be Isaac career shooting ceiling, but I do believe it is a big prove it step for a player type like JI. A lot of team related decisions will base on JI's confirmation of outside shooting ability.

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.