Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Infinitimind]

Reread what I said, I never said he was our best PG, I clearly said His best position is PG

and this is an internet forum, technically I don't need to backup anything, but I did your homework for you and even quoted it from the article.

It's ironic because you are setting him up to fail by declaring that he's a point guard when it's obvious that he's not.

You want the organization to help him salvage his NBA career? He needs to improve his catch-and-shoot % and learn how to cut and move without the ball. If he can do that and occasionally act as a secondary ball-handler, then he can carve out a nice and productive NBA career. Otherwise, he's toast. He might not even see the end of his rookie contract if we keep expecting him to be a PG. It's time to adjust.

Frank is a willing passer because he can't create any offense for himself. He can't shoot off the dribble, he can't blow by his defender with his lack of burst and basic handle, he can't finish at the rim anyway and he can't post up. He's unselfish by default, not because he has some higher understanding of basketball. Now as a passer he's extremely calculated and conservative. He doesn't make too many mistakes as a passer, but that's also because he lacks creativity and he doesn't take risks. He's extremely risk-averse. He's the one player in the jazz band who can't improvise. That's not what you want from a point guard. Point guards create. I saw Frank turn the ball over in a 3-on-1 fast-break in Washington last season for heaven's sake.

Also I didn't see a lot of relevant quantitative data regarding his NBA career in the articles you posted. I think the biggest takeaway from last season if you want to see the glass half-full is that he was part of some of the most productive 5-man line-ups, which means he could potentially be part of winning (or neutral) line-ups. This is relevant, even though as a collective stat, there is some noise and the one constant was actually Noah Vonleh. My point is, it's one thing to acknowledge that he can be part of winning line-ups, it's another thing entirely to infer that he was driving the success of these line-ups.

Actually what you are saying is doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. The numbers say he plays best at PG, yet everyone wants to move him to a new position without even giving him the opportunity to develop in what he has been doing best.

I agree, Frank cannot blow by his defender (he doesn't have that first step) but not every PG can, that doesn't mean he needs to go take up another profession or should go learn a new position.

My argument has always been that this administration puts him on a short leash and doesn't allow him to play through mistakes and develop. Not for nothing but Dot is also on a short leash and gets DNP's and forgotten for no apparent reason.

If you're developing then develop! This is selective choice of who they develop and how. Frank = forgotten man, yet Fiz tells Mud in his press conference "we're gonna get you right"?

Agreed 100 percent. Still till this day I don’t understand why they would play muiday over frank. When they knew they were not keep muiday . It was wasted time that could have been use to help frank develop

[hatnlvr]

It's ironic because you are setting him up to fail by declaring that he's a point guard when it's obvious that he's not.

You want the organization to help him salvage his NBA career? He needs to improve his catch-and-shoot % and learn how to cut and move without the ball. If he can do that and occasionally act as a secondary ball-handler, then he can carve out a nice and productive NBA career. Otherwise, he's toast. He might not even see the end of his rookie contract if we keep expecting him to be a PG. It's time to adjust.

Frank is a willing passer because he can't create any offense for himself. He can't shoot off the dribble, he can't blow by his defender with his lack of burst and basic handle, he can't finish at the rim anyway and he can't post up. He's unselfish by default, not because he has some higher understanding of basketball. Now as a passer he's extremely calculated and conservative. He doesn't make too many mistakes as a passer, but that's also because he lacks creativity and he doesn't take risks. He's extremely risk-averse. He's the one player in the jazz band who can't improvise. That's not what you want from a point guard. Point guards create. I saw Frank turn the ball over in a 3-on-1 fast-break in Washington last season for heaven's sake.

Also I didn't see a lot of relevant quantitative data regarding his NBA career in the articles you posted. I think the biggest takeaway from last season if you want to see the glass half-full is that he was part of some of the most productive 5-man line-ups, which means he could potentially be part of winning (or neutral) line-ups. This is relevant, even though as a collective stat, there is some noise and the one constant was actually Noah Vonleh. My point is, it's one thing to acknowledge that he can be part of winning line-ups, it's another thing entirely to infer that he was driving the success of these line-ups.

Actually what you are saying is doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. The numbers say he plays best at PG, yet everyone wants to move him to a new position without even giving him the opportunity to develop in what he has been doing best.

I agree, Frank cannot blow by his defender (he doesn't have that first step) but not every PG can, that doesn't mean he needs to go take up another profession or should go learn a new position.

My argument has always been that this administration puts him on a short leash and doesn't allow him to play through mistakes and develop. Not for nothing but Dot is also on a short leash and gets DNP's and forgotten for no apparent reason.

If you're developing then develop! This is selective choice of who they develop and how. Frank = forgotten man, yet Fiz tells Mud in his press conference "we're gonna get you right"?

Exactly which numbers are you referring to? I think you arbitrarily decided that he's the point guard in those line-ups when in fact Tim Hardaway Jr handled most of the playmaking responsibilities when he shared the court with Frank. Good or bad, Timmy was the one initiating offense most of the time.

Also it's not just the fact that Frank can't blow by his defenders, it's the fact that he doesn't have any other PG qualities either. He can't shoot off the dribble, his handle is limited at best, he doesn't make quick decisions with the ball and he doesn't have creative vision. He's a ball mover who can occasionally make a smart pass, but that doesn't make him a point guard.

If you're relying on that theknickswall opinion piece as some sort of evidence, when the article provides no quantitative data whatsoever and no in-depth analysis about what's actually happening on the court in terms of role distribution, then your argument sounds a little shallow. It seems to me that you're seeing what you want to see instead of facing the fact that he's not what you want him to be. I'm aware I probably sound super arrogant but I respectfully disagree with you.

I want the organization to develop him as well, but if you're playing him at the point, then you're developing him wrong and you're wasting everyone's time, his included. He should be developed as a two-guard who can shoot off the catch, cut to the basket (like Roberson) and serve as a secondary ball-handler. Like a mix of Avery Bradley and Andre Roberson. I think it would give him a defined role and a very clear set of skills to work on, instead of asking him to develop creativity, vision, leadership, quick decision-making on top of his basketball skills. Anyways, I'm done.

"Frank’s best performances have come when he is running the point, allowing him to handle the rock. His favorite rhythm shot is that pull up from the free throw line."

https://theknickswall.com/optimizing-best-lineups-frank-ntilikina/

That's not my quote, it's taken directly from the article.

Your opinion that he needs to be a catch & shoot/3D player is based on what analytical, factual data? He's never played that role in his career but we are determining that this is the best role for him based on what?

Your opinion there is that every PG needs to play like a Stephon Marbury or Derek Rose type of player. Not every PG in the league fits that description, that doesn't mean they should change positions or would be more effective at a new position because they did fit the prototypical mold of the perfect player.

[Chanel Bomber]

Actually what you are saying is doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing. The numbers say he plays best at PG, yet everyone wants to move him to a new position without even giving him the opportunity to develop in what he has been doing best.

I agree, Frank cannot blow by his defender (he doesn't have that first step) but not every PG can, that doesn't mean he needs to go take up another profession or should go learn a new position.

My argument has always been that this administration puts him on a short leash and doesn't allow him to play through mistakes and develop. Not for nothing but Dot is also on a short leash and gets DNP's and forgotten for no apparent reason.

If you're developing then develop! This is selective choice of who they develop and how. Frank = forgotten man, yet Fiz tells Mud in his press conference "we're gonna get you right"?

Exactly which numbers are you referring to? I think you arbitrarily decided that he's the point guard in those line-ups when in fact Tim Hardaway Jr handled most of the playmaking responsibilities when he shared the court with Frank. Good or bad, Timmy was the one initiating offense most of the time.

Also it's not just the fact that Frank can't blow by his defenders, it's the fact that he doesn't have any other PG qualities either. He can't shoot off the dribble, his handle is limited at best, he doesn't make quick decisions with the ball and he doesn't have creative vision. He's a ball mover who can occasionally make a smart pass, but that doesn't make him a point guard.

If you're relying on that theknickswall opinion piece as some sort of evidence, when the article provides no quantitative data whatsoever and no in-depth analysis about what's actually happening on the court in terms of role distribution, then your argument sounds a little shallow. It seems to me that you're seeing what you want to see instead of facing the fact that he's not what you want him to be. I'm aware I probably sound super arrogant but I respectfully disagree with you.

I want the organization to develop him as well, but if you're playing him at the point, then you're developing him wrong and you're wasting everyone's time, his included. He should be developed as a two-guard who can shoot off the catch, cut to the basket (like Roberson) and serve as a secondary ball-handler. Like a mix of Avery Bradley and Andre Roberson. I think it would give him a defined role and a very clear set of skills to work on, instead of asking him to develop creativity, vision, leadership, quick decision-making on top of his basketball skills. Anyways, I'm done.

"Frank’s best performances have come when he is running the point, allowing him to handle the rock. His favorite rhythm shot is that pull up from the free throw line."

https://theknickswall.com/optimizing-best-lineups-frank-ntilikina/

That's not my quote, it's taken directly from the article.

Your opinion that he needs to be a catch & shoot/3D player is based on what analytical, factual data? He's never played that role in his career but we are determining that this is the best role for him based on what?

Your opinion there is that every PG needs to play like a Stephon Marbury or Derek Rose type of player. Not every PG in the league fits that description, that doesn't mean they should change positions or would be more effective at a new position because they did fit the prototypical mold of the perfect player.

Yes, that quote is an opinion from an opinion piece, not a fact, let alone a fact that's supported by quantitative data. So you're just relaying someone else's subjective opinion and presenting it as scientific evidence to support your own, when in fact there is 0 statistical evidence behind it.

Secondly, you're the one who claimed that advanced statistics backed your opinion (that Frank is better at PG), I didn't. And the fact is that you're clearly unable to share this data, because it doesn't exist. So don't try to turn this against me. I didn't use this argument, you did.

Frank has played on and off the ball. Offensively, he has been horrible across the board, on-ball, off-ball, everything. My point is, since he has a nice form on his jumper and he’s a good FT shooter (a solid predictor for 3-point shooting) and he can handle the ball and playmake a little but not well enough to play the point, the most realistic upside for him would be to play as a two-guard who can play off the ball and serve as a secondary ball-handler. You're asking less of him, while setting attainable goals (improving his jumper off the catch and cutting to the basket). You want him to be a lead guard? Then he needs to improve his handle, his jumper off the dribble, his vision, his ability to make quick decisions, his leadership and his assertiveness. That's just too much to ask for considering where he's coming from (NBA rock bottom). It's not fair to him.

I said nothing that suggests that I believe every PG needs to play like Rose or Marbury. You're putting words in my mouth. I don't need my lead guard to resemble the prototypical PG, my point is that NBA point guards have different qualities on offense - even the flawed ones - and that Frank has shown none of those attributes aside from his basic willingness to pass, which is by default since he cannot create for himself. I won't engage any further, have a good one cheers.

[GONYK]

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[Fat Kat]

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[GONYK]

The World Cup team plays more prep games than there are SL and pre-season games

[HarthorneWingo]

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Will it air on one of the ESPN channels or NBA-TV?

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

Will it air on one of the ESPN channels or NBA-TV?

Someone in the comments mentioned the ESPN app

[remi_222]

Read on Twitter

Will it air on one of the ESPN channels or NBA-TV?

Living in the US i'll always find a link to watch the game to post on this thread

[blanko]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

Min are earned in practice, giving min to frank hasnt worked. He does the same thing, he refuses to be a threat.

Lets stop all this "they didnt give frank a chance" . They gave him plenty of chances: he is the one not being a threat, he is the one not cutting to the basket, not crashing the boards, ect.

Fiz isnt asking him to be curry, but for the love god be a threat, be aggressive.

If frank isnt playing, its because he isnt doing what he is told to be in practice. Simple as that.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Clyde_Style]

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Har dee har har

OK, shovel the dirt on Frank

I know the rap on his lack of aggression is warranted and I'll sign off on him too if he doesn't come back with fire in his belly, but I didn't get this far to give up on him now

I hope he gets real mad and shows everyone up. I still think he can do it. It is mental, not physical and sometimes a shift does happen in a player and they turn the corner. Frank has the talent to be a piece of our future. I'll ride this out until it is over either way

[Deeeez Knicks]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

Min are earned in practice, giving min to frank hasnt worked. He does the same thing, he refuses to be a threat.

Lets stop all this "they didnt give frank a chance" . They gave him plenty of chances: he is the one not being a threat, he is the one not cutting to the basket, not crashing the boards, ect.

Fiz isnt asking him to be curry, but for the love god be a threat, be aggressive.

If frank isnt playing, its because he isnt doing what he is told to be in practice. Simple as that.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes, Frank needs to play better. I never said he is free of blame. I just would like to see him play and play well. For some reason that gets people all fired up just to say something so simple as that.

The "earn" minutes and accountability from last season was BS. Some players pretty much had free reign to do whatever they wanted (cough, cough Timmy) or not play defense or hog the ball. Others had short leashes. We also wasted a lot of time on players like Mudiay and Burke. Frank played like crap, but we also did not put him in good positions. I think we should have def given Frank a little more rope last year and did a better job. Most of the blame is on Frank, but some young players need more guidance/development then others.

[Clyde_Style]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

Min are earned in practice, giving min to frank hasnt worked. He does the same thing, he refuses to be a threat.

Lets stop all this "they didnt give frank a chance" . They gave him plenty of chances: he is the one not being a threat, he is the one not cutting to the basket, not crashing the boards, ect.

Fiz isnt asking him to be curry, but for the love god be a threat, be aggressive.

If frank isnt playing, its because he isnt doing what he is told to be in practice. Simple as that.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes, Frank needs to play better. I never said he is free of blame. I just would like to see him play and play well. For some reason that gets people all fired up just to say something so simple as that.

The "earn" minutes and accountability from last season was BS. Some players pretty much had free reign to do whatever they wanted (cough, cough Timmy) or not play defense or hog the ball. Others had short leashes. We also wasted a lot of time on players like Mudiay and Burke. Frank played like crap, but we also did not put him in good positions. I think we should have def given Frank a little more rope last year and did a better job. Most of the blame is on Frank, but some young players need more guidance/development then others.

That's fair. Frank needs to take stock of himself, but Fiz was bizarro as well in the way he handled Frank in particular.

[NYKAL]

^I disagree with your assertion that Fiz's substitution pattern held him back. The opportunity was there but, the injury kept him off the floor for a big chunk of the season and when he did come back, it was probably too soon.

He missed 24games before coming back in March only to go back down a few games later

[GONYK]

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Har dee har har

OK, shovel the dirt on Frank

I know the rap on his lack of aggression is warranted and I'll sign off on him too if he doesn't come back with fire in his belly, but I didn't get this far to give up on him now

I hope he gets real mad and shows everyone up. I still think he can do it. It is mental, not physical and sometimes a shift does happen in a player and they turn the corner. Frank has the talent to be a piece of our future. I'll ride this out until it is over either way

I'm nowhere near giving up on Frank. I'm probably the biggest Frank fan on the board.

The video was just humorous.

[Clyde_Style]

^I disagree with your assertion that Fiz's substitution pattern held him back. The opportunity was there but, the injury kept him off the floor for a big chunk of the season and when he did come back, it was probably too soon.

He missed 24games before coming back in March only to go back down a few games later

See what you will. I saw different. I saw a coach who played favorites who did not award minutes on a merit basis. Frank got benched after putting in his best performances when he was not injured.

[NYKAL]

^I disagree with your assertion that Fiz's substitution pattern held him back. The opportunity was there but, the injury kept him off the floor for a big chunk of the season and when he did come back, it was probably too soon.

He missed 24games before coming back in March only to go back down a few games later

See what you will. I saw different. I saw a coach who played favorites who did not award minutes on a merit basis. Frank got benched after putting in his best performances when he was not injured.

I'm not going to get excited over a one good game from a dude who droped a 0/0/0 game. If I didn't indict him for that I definitley won't pat him on the had for doing good.

[Clyde_Style]

^I disagree with your assertion that Fiz's substitution pattern held him back. The opportunity was there but, the injury kept him off the floor for a big chunk of the season and when he did come back, it was probably too soon.

He missed 24games before coming back in March only to go back down a few games later

See what you will. I saw different. I saw a coach who played favorites who did not award minutes on a merit basis. Frank got benched after putting in his best performances when he was not injured.

Frank missed half the season!

And you're not listening to me then, because I was referring to earlier in the season prior to the groin injury. I clearly said that.

[blanko]

Hopefully we give Frank consistent minutes in a defined role as a Guard, but it seems like a long shot for that to happen.

Min are earned in practice, giving min to frank hasnt worked. He does the same thing, he refuses to be a threat.

Lets stop all this "they didnt give frank a chance" . They gave him plenty of chances: he is the one not being a threat, he is the one not cutting to the basket, not crashing the boards, ect.

Fiz isnt asking him to be curry, but for the love god be a threat, be aggressive.

If frank isnt playing, its because he isnt doing what he is told to be in practice. Simple as that.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes, Frank needs to play better. I never said he is free of blame. I just would like to see him play and play well. For some reason that gets people all fired up just to say something so simple as that.

The "earn" minutes and accountability from last season was BS. Some players pretty much had free reign to do whatever they wanted (cough, cough Timmy) or not play defense or hog the ball. Others had short leashes. We also wasted a lot of time on players like Mudiay and Burke. Frank played like crap, but we also did not put him in good positions. I think we should have def given Frank a little more rope last year and did a better job. Most of the blame is on Frank, but some young players need more guidance/development then others.

He got pulled because he wasnt being a threat. He didnt even try to do what fiz wanted. Look he avg 2 rebounds a game at his length and height, doesnt that say something about his agression?

I am a frank supporter, but no more baby gloves. Its year 3, he knows what he has to do. We all do. Do it in practice, then do it in games.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[Deeeez Knicks]

Min are earned in practice, giving min to frank hasnt worked. He does the same thing, he refuses to be a threat.

Lets stop all this "they didnt give frank a chance" . They gave him plenty of chances: he is the one not being a threat, he is the one not cutting to the basket, not crashing the boards, ect.

Fiz isnt asking him to be curry, but for the love god be a threat, be aggressive.

If frank isnt playing, its because he isnt doing what he is told to be in practice. Simple as that.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes, Frank needs to play better. I never said he is free of blame. I just would like to see him play and play well. For some reason that gets people all fired up just to say something so simple as that.

The "earn" minutes and accountability from last season was BS. Some players pretty much had free reign to do whatever they wanted (cough, cough Timmy) or not play defense or hog the ball. Others had short leashes. We also wasted a lot of time on players like Mudiay and Burke. Frank played like crap, but we also did not put him in good positions. I think we should have def given Frank a little more rope last year and did a better job. Most of the blame is on Frank, but some young players need more guidance/development then others.

He got pulled because he wasnt being a threat. He didnt even try to do what fiz wanted. Look he avg 2 rebounds a game at his length and height, doesnt that say something about his agression?

I am a frank supporter, but no more baby gloves. Its year 3, he knows what he has to do. We all do. Do it in practice, then do it in games.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

I think that could be a reason for Franks struggles. Fiz wants Frank to play a certain way, but that might not be his game and his strength. Maybe in the end it will help Frank, but its a huge learning curve for him. He may never be able to be the type of player that Fiz wants. The offense pretty much looked like trash with the way Fiz wanted to play with a basically free for all from the guards so im not a fan of that way with or without Frank.

Even still, Frank looked bad in almost any role last year and needs to step up and play better. I think everyone agrees with that.