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[The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like?

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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#61 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:56 pm

stuporman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
stuporman wrote:I see Dot and Frank riding pine for more whole games than people on this forum will be wanting to accept and I'm getting a feeling that Pillz has some 'our guys' mentality and those two are Jax guys.


Dot was the most consistent player for long stretches of last season. He plays defense and hits shots (most of the time). Not sure why you lump him in with Frank and his obstacles to playing time.

It is a numbers game and Dot might not play, but based on performance last season he definitely deserves to.


You don't know why I'd lump those two together? Did you read the full sentence that comprises my whole post? It's right in there, read it again. :lol:


You could be right about the Jackson taint. I don't know. I do think Phil Jackson's toe jam is more fearsome than his taint though. You saw those feet. That's some scary stuff
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#62 » by cgmw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:58 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Mitch's minutes rose through last season. I gave you the link to his game stats.

He averaged 32 minutes a game the final 8 games of last season so as far as the minutes notion he finished out the season strong in that category.

His PF average those final 8 games was 3.625 so on average he was not close to fouling out with 5 fouls in only one of those games.

Encouraging sign for sure but not sufficient to predict an entire 82 game season against opposing starters in games that matter.

I’m just saying everybody is in a rush. It could be best for his development to let him bang against opponents’ second teams while getting mentored by Gibson, at least to begin the season.

Fan expectations seem to be 30 mpg as a f/t starter, but that seems wildly optimistic at this point imo.


Well, different interpretation for sure. Saying it is wildly optimistic when there is a very clear trend indicating otherwise is not how I would put it

I (fervently) debated that adverb.

I think fans on this board are getting wildly optimistic about Mitch. There’s a difference between playing 8 meaningless games and 80 regular games. And that difference is a meaningful factor of 10.

The club just wildly spent on Portis and Gibson.

Expect ~24 (wild) mpg from Mitch.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#63 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:02 pm

cgmw wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
cgmw wrote:Encouraging sign for sure but not sufficient to predict an entire 82 game season against opposing starters in games that matter.

I’m just saying everybody is in a rush. It could be best for his development to let him bang against opponents’ second teams while getting mentored by Gibson, at least to begin the season.

Fan expectations seem to be 30 mpg as a f/t starter, but that seems wildly optimistic at this point imo.


Well, different interpretation for sure. Saying it is wildly optimistic when there is a very clear trend indicating otherwise is not how I would put it

I (fervently) debated that adverb.

I think fans on this board are getting wildly optimistic about Mitch. There’s a difference between playing 8 meaningless games and 80 regular games. And that difference is a meaningful factor of 10.

Maybe it’s not wildly optimistic but the club just spent wildly on Portis and Gibson for a reason.

Expect ~24 mpg from Mitch.


I have no issue with that happening though. I was just debunking the notion that he is going to foul out in 15 minutes on a consistent basis (even if that was a form of hyperbole)

I do think he is the future of the franchise and will be a 30 minute player whenever that may be
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#64 » by melo4three » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:15 pm

I just don't see how the coaches can justify giving knox significantly more minutes than iggy when they see him dominate knox in training camp.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#65 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:20 pm

melo4three wrote:I just don't see how the coaches can justify giving knox significantly more minutes than iggy when they see him dominate knox in training camp.


If that is the case then it means is we've been picking our first round picks in the second round.

There is going to be limited vesting in Knox if a guy like Ignaps can come in and steal his lunch money.

If that happens they'll split minutes at first to see who takes the prize

I like Ignaps better already, but it is not like Knox has no upside or talent. He'll still play even if it is only to maintain some of his asset value until they trade him
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#66 » by melo4three » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:38 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
melo4three wrote:I just don't see how the coaches can justify giving knox significantly more minutes than iggy when they see him dominate knox in training camp.


If that is the case then it means is we've been picking our first round picks in the second round.

There is going to be limited vesting in Knox if a guy like Ignaps can come in and steal his lunch money.

If that happens they'll split minutes at first to see who takes the prize

I like Ignaps better already, but it is not like Knox has no upside or talent. He'll still play even if it is only to maintain some of his asset value until they trade him



I agree, Knox has a higher upside simply because of his physical profile. But Ignas is one of those ready day 1 type of prospects.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#67 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:42 pm

melo4three wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
melo4three wrote:I just don't see how the coaches can justify giving knox significantly more minutes than iggy when they see him dominate knox in training camp.


If that is the case then it means is we've been picking our first round picks in the second round.

There is going to be limited vesting in Knox if a guy like Ignaps can come in and steal his lunch money.

If that happens they'll split minutes at first to see who takes the prize

I like Ignaps better already, but it is not like Knox has no upside or talent. He'll still play even if it is only to maintain some of his asset value until they trade him



I agree, Knox has a higher upside simply because of his physical profile. But Ignas is one of those ready day 1 type of prospects.


And that sometimes means a player fits into the team's approach and another doesn't. It is not a black & white equation about talent or potential alone. I can easily see how IB can plug into most systems immediately. Knox may become a high level scorer and even a decent defender, but sometimes you go with the guy who gets it today and plays effectively within your format.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#68 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:43 pm

I hope Fizdale is canned this season and Keith Smart is given the job.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#69 » by Besart19 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:47 pm

Smith, Dotson, Ellington and two Mavs picks for Oladipo

Ntilikina / Payton / Allen
Oladipo / Trier / Bullock
Barrett / Knox / Brazdeikis
Randle / Morris / Gibson
Robinson / Portis / Wooten
Knicks will be the new Warriors by 2021
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#70 » by stuporman » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:43 pm

Besart19 wrote:Smith, Dotson, Ellington and two Mavs picks for Oladipo

Ntilikina / Payton / Allen
Oladipo / Trier / Bullock
Barrett / Knox / Brazdeikis
Randle / Morris / Gibson
Robinson / Portis / Wooten


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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#71 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:55 pm

Besart19 wrote:Smith, Dotson, Ellington and two Mavs picks for Oladipo

Ntilikina / Payton / Allen
Oladipo / Trier / Bullock
Barrett / Knox / Brazdeikis
Randle / Morris / Gibson
Robinson / Portis / Wooten

No.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#72 » by Phish Tank » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:03 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:I hope Fizdale is canned this season and Keith Smart is given the job.


oh god no. Kaleb Canales please.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#73 » by cgmw » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:09 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:I hope Fizdale is canned this season and Keith Smart is given the job.

OT: idk why but Keith Smart always reminds me of John Witherspoon from Boomerang

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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#74 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:28 am

Frank ain't playing,' Iggy ain't playin'

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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#75 » by br7knicks » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:00 am

Stannis wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Stannis wrote:If he's in foul trouble, by all means, Taj or Portis gets those minutes.

But he's clearly the best big defender on the team.

I don't think rotation in the OP assumed Mitch was going to be in foul trouble every game hence the low minutes. They merely just took his minutes so they could give them to other players that were signed.


Based on most of last season, and SL, I brought up the concern of Mitch fouling too often. During SL, most of his fouls were straight laziness, and the goaltending was ridiculous.

I raised concern that Mitch would develop bad habits in being allowed to do this, and someone on here scoffed at it. Couldn't believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch loses minutes quickly in the season because of it.

I hope I'm wrong, but im not sure, not based on his SL play. But he's also good at adapting and changing behaviors


I mean, if he is only going to play 20 MPG, he sure is gonna maximize his fouls because he can.

But he's proved he can be collective when playing 30 MPG+ from what Clyde's stats shows.

I think if you play him 20 MPG, it will make his bad habits worse. If you play him real starter minutes, it will help him in the long run because it forces him to be smarter.


Couldn't agree more. Mitch has shown he's smart and will adapt. I just don't want him to get lazy and lose this good habits.

He's my favorite Knick right now.


But I was on the 28 to 30 mpg boat
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#76 » by Clyde_Style » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:24 am

br7knicks wrote:
Stannis wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Based on most of last season, and SL, I brought up the concern of Mitch fouling too often. During SL, most of his fouls were straight laziness, and the goaltending was ridiculous.

I raised concern that Mitch would develop bad habits in being allowed to do this, and someone on here scoffed at it. Couldn't believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if Mitch loses minutes quickly in the season because of it.

I hope I'm wrong, but im not sure, not based on his SL play. But he's also good at adapting and changing behaviors


I mean, if he is only going to play 20 MPG, he sure is gonna maximize his fouls because he can.

But he's proved he can be collective when playing 30 MPG+ from what Clyde's stats shows.

I think if you play him 20 MPG, it will make his bad habits worse. If you play him real starter minutes, it will help him in the long run because it forces him to be smarter.


Couldn't agree more. Mitch has shown he's smart and will adapt. I just don't want him to get lazy and lose this good habits.

He's my favorite Knick right now.


But I was on the 28 to 30 mpg boat


Until RJ proves he's the man and/or Dennis takes a big leap forwards, Mitch is the most important player this franchise has. Not Randle even though I think he's going to be a baller.

Mitch is going to play plenty of games with major minutes even if they play him less some other games to get him some rest which they can do afford to do with this roster.

To expect a hard cap on Mitch's minutes is not a logical assumption IMO. I expect his situation to be quite fluid and some nights he'll take the majority of the minutes
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#77 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:25 am

melo4three wrote:I just don't see how the coaches can justify giving knox significantly more minutes than iggy when they see him dominate knox in training camp.


They saw that? Link?
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#78 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:28 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Stannis wrote:
I mean, if he is only going to play 20 MPG, he sure is gonna maximize his fouls because he can.

But he's proved he can be collective when playing 30 MPG+ from what Clyde's stats shows.

I think if you play him 20 MPG, it will make his bad habits worse. If you play him real starter minutes, it will help him in the long run because it forces him to be smarter.


Couldn't agree more. Mitch has shown he's smart and will adapt. I just don't want him to get lazy and lose this good habits.

He's my favorite Knick right now.


But I was on the 28 to 30 mpg boat


Until RJ proves he's the man and/or Dennis takes a big leap forwards, Mitch is the most important player this franchise has. Not Randle even though I think he's going to be a baller.

Mitch is going to play plenty of games with major minutes even if they play him less some other games to get him some rest which they can do afford to do with this roster.

To expect a hard cap on Mitch's minutes is not a logical assumption IMO. I expect his situation to be quite fluid and some nights he'll take the majority of the minutes


But don't you want to see him with some combination of Knox, RJ, Trier, Frank, Iggy, DSJ coming off the bench as a unit? Honestly, I really want to see us build chemistry with our young players off the bench. I can see them running other team's second units off the floor.
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#79 » by Clyde_Style » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:38 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Mitch has shown he's smart and will adapt. I just don't want him to get lazy and lose this good habits.

He's my favorite Knick right now.


But I was on the 28 to 30 mpg boat


Until RJ proves he's the man and/or Dennis takes a big leap forwards, Mitch is the most important player this franchise has. Not Randle even though I think he's going to be a baller.

Mitch is going to play plenty of games with major minutes even if they play him less some other games to get him some rest which they can do afford to do with this roster.

To expect a hard cap on Mitch's minutes is not a logical assumption IMO. I expect his situation to be quite fluid and some nights he'll take the majority of the minutes


But don't you want to see him with some combination of Knox, RJ, Trier, Frank, Iggy, DSJ coming off the bench as a unit? Honestly, I really want to see us build chemistry with our young players off the bench. I can see them running other team's second units off the floor.


I have no such inclination and while I don't know Fizdale's intent I expect a blend of young cats with vets on the floor at the same time. And some of the vets are still fairly young too, just having a few years more experience.

If DSJr's shot is fixed and smoking then he should start with RJ or Payton and Trier should be the 6th man.

I think Knox is going to be one of Fiz's experimental players re: starting vs. coming off the bench.

Frank needs to smoke the threes and maybe he can work his way back into the graces of the Fiz

but I don't see a wholly 1st/2nd year second unit as a viable plan or reasonable expectation
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Re: [The Athletic] - What will the Knicks’ rotation look like? 

Post#80 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:55 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Until RJ proves he's the man and/or Dennis takes a big leap forwards, Mitch is the most important player this franchise has. Not Randle even though I think he's going to be a baller.

Mitch is going to play plenty of games with major minutes even if they play him less some other games to get him some rest which they can do afford to do with this roster.

To expect a hard cap on Mitch's minutes is not a logical assumption IMO. I expect his situation to be quite fluid and some nights he'll take the majority of the minutes


But don't you want to see him with some combination of Knox, RJ, Trier, Frank, Iggy, DSJ coming off the bench as a unit? Honestly, I really want to see us build chemistry with our young players off the bench. I can see them running other team's second units off the floor.


I have no such inclination and while I don't know Fizdale's intent I expect a blend of young cats with vets on the floor at the same time. And some of the vets are still fairly young too, just having a few years more experience.

If DSJr's shot is fixed and smoking then he should start with RJ or Payton and Trier should be the 6th man.

I think Knox is going to be one of Fiz's experimental players re: starting vs. coming off the bench.

Frank needs to smoke the threes and maybe he can work his way back into the graces of the Fiz

but I don't see a wholly 1st/2nd year second unit as a viable plan or reasonable expectation


True. Good points.

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