Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

[basketballRob]

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

You don't compare players based on number of years played, you compare them based on age. Check any site that compares players.

Gordon was better than Harris at 23.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

You don't compare players based on number of years played, you compare them based on age. Check any site that compares players.

Gordon was better than Harris at 23.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Every player goes through rookie learning curve no matter is he 19 or 24 when he enters a league.
More important is how much yeras of experience in basketball player had before NBA.
if kid like Siakam didn't really play basketball at age of 17 his learning curve won't be the same at age of 23 as somebody who started to play basketball at age of 9 and by the time he is 23 already has 14 years of training.
That's some logic 101.

As for Harris, once he was traded to Detroit, at age of 23, he was player Gordon can hope to become. Since he moved from Orlando he is 16-20 ppg scorer on 52-53% eFG and 56-60% TS.

[Skin]

Been watching nba for 15 years, complete junkie when it comes to it. What i learned fast is not to belive in hype.
Literally every year players swear that that they put hardest work of their lifes and how stardom is right before a corner.
Than season rolls and top 5 players every year, for like 6-8 years are always same 5-8 people and nobody gets close.
Also half of " breakout candidates" fade .
I saw enough Skal Labissiere, Adam Morrison type of prospects in a lifetime to give a damn about their untapped potential until they actually prove something. ( or in Magic case Elfrid Payton and Hezonja and their "stardom" ) .

As for Magic inner growth, it's pretty much Clifford using players how they should be used in addition of not tanking late in a season so they kept focus whole 82 games long regular season, unlike in other years when they had nothing to play for in last 35 games.

This is 6th year of Aaaron Gordon, what is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5 ? Nothing. So were hype comes from ?

Isaac has been named into USA team. Will he get any PT behind Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes, Kuzma, Middleton,Thad Young and PJ Tucker? Nah, he will probably play less than 30 min total in whole tournament. No, he will be one of 3 players that will be cut before WC starts.
Did he get there because he had some thrilling season ? No, but because 11 out of 12 all nba team members actually declined spot, along with Harris, Beal, Lillard, McCullum, Kevin Love.
Zion, with 0 games played in his life i NBA, actually declined.

My orginal post wasn't even focused on Magic, but every single team out there. They are all working hard ,everybody is improving,ready to compete, everybody is contender, every single team with new coach is ready for stardom, every single team with new player is ready to compete. NBA hype at it's finest, even teams like Suns and their fans are full of themselfs nowdays. ........10 days into new season half of teams are tanking.

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

This is not just about AG. Even though, yes, he did improve as a player as a whole and that doesn't necessarily have to show up on the stat sheet. He admitted that he learned more about what it took to win, he took on a bigger role as a playmaker and he showed that when the playoff lights come on, that he won't melt away. The numbers don't tell everything.

I don't know why you're trying to debate the fact that players work on their games and improve over the offseason. Even great players get better. That's what makes them great.

Some of the stuff you're saying is just out of this world. Muscle growth can happen beyond 1 year after puberty. You know this right?

[pepe1991]

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

This is not just about AG. Even though, yes, he did improve as a player as a whole and that doesn't necessarily have to show up on the stat sheet. He admitted that he learned more about what it took to win, he took on a bigger role as a playmaker and he showed that when the playoff lights come on, that he won't melt away. The numbers don't tell everything.

I don't know why you're trying to debate the fact that players work on their games and improve over the offseason. Even great players get better. That's what makes them great.

Some of the stuff you're saying is just out of this world. Muscle growth can happen beyond 1 year after puberty. You know this right?

Ugh, after puberty, when your body is naturally developed and no longer has crazy amount of testosteron level as it has during puberty,

Year 1: 20-30 pounds (if you start between 15 and 22 years old)
Year 2: 10-12 pounds
Year 3: 5-8 pounds
Year 4 & 5: 3-6 pounds
The next 10-20 years: 3-10 pounds

And that’s high end, assuming you’re doing everything right.

Most people have the potential to add a good thirty pounds of muscle to their frames regardless of how **** their genetics are. Some can add forty.

And a smaller percentage can add fifty. In my quarter century of training I’ve never seen anyone add more than fifty pounds of muscle to their frame naturally.

After your initial newbie gains progress will be random and unpredictable. You might gain two pounds one year, zero the next, and one the year after that.

Then, occasionally, you’ll get that one year where everything falls into place for you, you finally learn to chill out and reduce stress levels, you quit the job that was ruining your life, you start sleeping an extra two hours per night, you start meditating and stop worrying so much…

And you actually gain five pounds of muscle over the course of twelve months.

But no matter what you do naturally, your potential is limited. A lot more so than supplement companies and bodybuilding mags would have you believe. You have to accept that if you’re going to be happy and enjoy training.

Gym is my second biggest passion, that's why i roll eyes every time i hear about miracle 5 months transformations and can only imagine this



because i know how it's done and how random fatty like Julius Randle loses 20 pounds of fat, adds 10 pounds of muscles and 5 months later, when he no longer can do it due testing, looks like he never runned in his life. But hey, there is no issue that little bit of trenbolone and clenbuterol can't fix over few months of test- free time.

[fendilim]

The offseason gives players time to work on their games in a way where they don't have time to do that during the busy season. The growth that players see from year to year is a testament to that. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow. Plus, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in. This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time. That's not to say everyone that puts in work will see results, but it takes work to have a chance. Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are. So it's natural for a fanbase to get excited about their young developing players.

. Especially when it comes to their bodies. "What is there to do this summer, that he couldn't do last 5?" Seriously? Bodies take time to grow.

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".

us, AG has improved in different ways every year. A lot of it is due to the offseason work he puts in.

Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.

This is the same for the majority of players in the NBA that get better over time.

Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.

Players don't get hype after their early developmental years. Once they plateau, they are what they are

So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

This is not just about AG. Even though, yes, he did improve as a player as a whole and that doesn't necessarily have to show up on the stat sheet. He admitted that he learned more about what it took to win, he took on a bigger role as a playmaker and he showed that when the playoff lights come on, that he won't melt away. The numbers don't tell everything.

I don't know why you're trying to debate the fact that players work on their games and improve over the offseason. Even great players get better. That's what makes them great.

Some of the stuff you're saying is just out of this world. Muscle growth can happen beyond 1 year after puberty. You know this right?

gordon as a playmaker? You do know his PPP was one of the worst in our roster, right?

Apg numbers are up all around because of the plays Steve clifford draws up. Knightro has put up numbers in the first few months off the season backing that up.

[pepe1991]

All studies show that during and after puberty it takes one year of good work to reach almost your full potential when it comes to muscle growth. After newbie gains are finished, you muscle gain reached really slow phase,where fully developed body can't really gain more than 5 pounds per year.
So This is nothing but myth often used by overuse of PEDs in sports and offseason "miracles".



Give of take his 3% , that had no impact on eFG and TS ( or any other advance stat), Gordon has been pretty much same player for 3 years now.
From strictily advanced stats and his true impact on a floor, his second year, at age of 20 was still by far his best year.
Witch again goes against everything people here say or hope.


Majority of nba stars are stars really early in their careers.

This is really easy to figure through allstar/ all nba first team selections.
Among 15 players named into all nba teams this year, only two players were not allstars/all nba team members during their rookie contracts. But not because they were some late bloomers but because West allstar team is almost impossible to get into and they are non other than Steph Curry ( 22,9 ppg, 7,0 apg wasn't enough for him ) and Kawhi Leonard ( finals MVP, 16 ppg player, DPOY ) to get them there. Both made it to allstar game in their 5th year.



So why are we talking about 6th year player who is 24 years old as somebody who didn't have 5 years to reach that level, yet never showed any signs of stardom ?
Gordon is Tobias Harris with unrealistic expetations, been that year for years now.

To me it's mindblowing to read comments of some people about Isaac and Gordon. It's like never actually watch them play ,rather just go to play nba 2k, edit them to 99 and act it's real life.
You litearlly have one player struggling to score 10 points a game and other that makes dumb mistakes with a ball all the damn time and that's they key reason why Magic had succesful season after yeras of painful tanking. Because they no longer play through players that scouts told them that will be good, but ones who are actually good at basketball.

This is not just about AG. Even though, yes, he did improve as a player as a whole and that doesn't necessarily have to show up on the stat sheet. He admitted that he learned more about what it took to win, he took on a bigger role as a playmaker and he showed that when the playoff lights come on, that he won't melt away. The numbers don't tell everything.

I don't know why you're trying to debate the fact that players work on their games and improve over the offseason. Even great players get better. That's what makes them great.

Some of the stuff you're saying is just out of this world. Muscle growth can happen beyond 1 year after puberty. You know this right?

gordon as a playmaker? You do know his PPP was one of the worst in our roster, right?

Apg numbers are up all around because of the plays Steve clifford draws up. Knightro has put up numbers in the first few months off the season backing that up.

Stop with facts, let's talk about untapped potential and new Kawhi , just ,ofc, better

[The Real Dalic]

This is not just about AG. Even though, yes, he did improve as a player as a whole and that doesn't necessarily have to show up on the stat sheet. He admitted that he learned more about what it took to win, he took on a bigger role as a playmaker and he showed that when the playoff lights come on, that he won't melt away. The numbers don't tell everything.

I don't know why you're trying to debate the fact that players work on their games and improve over the offseason. Even great players get better. That's what makes them great.

Some of the stuff you're saying is just out of this world. Muscle growth can happen beyond 1 year after puberty. You know this right?

gordon as a playmaker? You do know his PPP was one of the worst in our roster, right?

Apg numbers are up all around because of the plays Steve clifford draws up. Knightro has put up numbers in the first few months off the season backing that up.

Stop with facts, let's talk about untapped potential and new Kawhi , just ,ofc, better

Who said he was Kawhi or better? Nice trolling. I know it was mostly tongue in cheek but you really do like picking on certain players while defending others. Not sure why you can't just allow people to be happy about AG's progress. I'm also not a believer in someone being a finished product at 24. Some players progress slower than others.

[fendilim]

gordon as a playmaker? You do know his PPP was one of the worst in our roster, right?

Apg numbers are up all around because of the plays Steve clifford draws up. Knightro has put up numbers in the first few months off the season backing that up.

Stop with facts, let's talk about untapped potential and new Kawhi , just ,ofc, better

Who said he was Kawhi or better? Nice trolling. I know it was mostly tongue in cheek but you really do like picking on certain players while defending others. Not sure why you can't just allow people to be happy about AG's progress. I'm also not a believer in someone being a finished product at 24. Some players progress slower than others.

I think he is referring him to Bensational’s claim of AG having the potential to be the next Kawhi.

[pepe1991]

gordon as a playmaker? You do know his PPP was one of the worst in our roster, right?

Apg numbers are up all around because of the plays Steve clifford draws up. Knightro has put up numbers in the first few months off the season backing that up.

Spoiler:

Stop with facts, let's talk about untapped potential and new Kawhi , just ,ofc, better

Who said he was Kawhi or better? Nice trolling. I know it was mostly tongue in cheek but you really do like picking on certain players while defending others. Not sure why you can't just allow people to be happy about AG's progress. I'm also not a believer in someone being a finished product at 24. Some players progress slower than others.

Not trolling, for years bar that was set for him to jump over is being set lower and lower ,yet every year fans still act and lie to themselfs that he is on right path.
Entered NBA being " new Griffin" , than year later everybody figured it was not realistic as Griffin was allstar in rookie year.
Next few years he was new Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, both made allstar game or all nba team in rookie contract, it was obvious that Gordon already missed on that party.
Last year he was new Marion .But Marion was 17 points, 10 rebounds player in his second year. In his 4th he was allstar. So, naturally Gordon is late on that comparison as well.

So now, with complete lack of stars to compare him with, fans reach out for little things like " but his 3% improved for 1,3%". Oh no s**t what a crazy concept of mediocre shooter ,shooting less giving him better percentages when he does shoot, but at expense of his PPG. What's next they will figure ? Being 6'9 and shooting fadeways is pointless because your point of relise is high enough where it's almost impossible to block your shot in 99% cases ? Mind blown

Also he is allegedly now "point forward" with 3.7 assist a game . While, in eyes of fans here " he is improved passer and added that in his game" , they will aslo tell you that Evan sucks and that Vučević plays buddyball and also that DJ isn't that great of a passer.
But when you have case where 5 out of 5 starters improve as passers, some in 30s among them, what is more objective conclusion? That 5 players all at same time discovered new skill, or that new offense, under new coach puts them in better position to be rack more APGs?
I already posted yesterday all Magic starters ( including Isaac, who does not play enough with ball to make significan improvment, yet still made one ) had jump beteween 1,2 to 2,0 in potential assists. Gordon is right there with them.

This is 6th year in a row where fans here get cought up into delusion of his potential based on literally nothing objective.
Guy spent half of decade in nba and results are:
12,5 ppg
6,2 rpg
2,2 apg
45% FG
32% forr 3
70,7% FT
50% eFG
53,4% TS

for his position he is below average in efficiency , has BPM of 0,2 and by RPM his impact on a game is bit worst than Mason Plumlee ( 21# ranked) and bit better than Noah Vonleh ( 23# ranked) and by RPM he was actually better year before than last year.

ON every single efficiency data, where he is measured with other SFs and PFs he does not hold up well at all. Matter of fact they all paint picture of pretty average player without any true impact on outcome of a games. Guy is definition of replacment level of talent but that's something lot of Magic fans simply refues to accept.

When you figure that gameplan for Raptors against Magic was to not guard any shots from him and Isaac, rather they prefered to chase Ross with 2 players at half court and trap Vučević with sometimes 3 players you get how much respect he gets from defense .

In reality, there is no much difference between Gordon and guys like Tobias Harris, Rudy Gay, Danilo Gallinari or Harrison Barnes other than their subjective outlook on "Potential".
I spent enough time through years saying Gordon isn't new Kawhi or George ( that was his comparison 2 years ago here...) to roll eyes when i see comments , yet i decided to post this because i really can't understand that somebody can watch Aaron for 5 years and 340 games, see all his shortcommings, remember all his 2016-17 bricks, remember all the times when he tried to play like ISO scorer and failed ( over and over and over again) and come up with conclusion " oh he'll be star" . How?

[j-ragg]

Spoiler:

Stop with facts, let's talk about untapped potential and new Kawhi , just ,ofc, better

Who said he was Kawhi or better? Nice trolling. I know it was mostly tongue in cheek but you really do like picking on certain players while defending others. Not sure why you can't just allow people to be happy about AG's progress. I'm also not a believer in someone being a finished product at 24. Some players progress slower than others.

This is 6th year in a row where fans here get cought up into delusion of his potential based on literally nothing objective.

Don't curse at other people please. Thanks. - Knightro

No one thinks hes Kawhi. Yes, Ben started a thread years ago about their career trajectories. Ha ha crazy... so crazy you've mentioned it in every Gordon thread ever since. I like that you don't really ever get personal on here with posters but you seem to have a weird personal thing with young guys on the roster.

[ARandomStranger]

I would chime in on some things, but my expertise is neither in stats nor is it in the wellness or levels of biology necessary to pinpoint the exact growth charts or expected evolution of player's games based on some kind of curve backed by science. I do think it is absurd to think people can't make jumps in certain aspects of their game by developing outside of physical aspects, such as increasing their shot range, and improving their shot selection by adding new facets to their game.

Will AG do that? I don't know. I can't sit here and tell anyone via some kind of graph or a list of stats if he can do it, all I can do is sit here, and think about possibilities. That is what the off-season is about in honest, so I will take the wait, and see approach. I'm not going to spew numbers and try to back my arguments with facts because I wear blue colored glasses and my bias is very clear. I will instead hope for the best and continue to have faith in some kind of development. I'm not going to get cynical or butt hurt if they don't make the jump, I'm also not going to get into an argument on a message board if they don't.

I'm just going to get hyped for basketball and enjoy watching the game. Hopefully the team gets better internally and they make another jump, if not then there are assets to move. Its not like anyone on this team is absolutely immovable.

[pepe1991]

Who said he was Kawhi or better? Nice trolling. I know it was mostly tongue in cheek but you really do like picking on certain players while defending others. Not sure why you can't just allow people to be happy about AG's progress. I'm also not a believer in someone being a finished product at 24. Some players progress slower than others.

This is 6th year in a row where fans here get cought up into delusion of his potential based on literally nothing objective.

Don't curse at other people please. Thanks. - Knightro

No one thinks hes Kawhi. Yes, Ben started a thread years ago about their career trajectories. Ha ha crazy... so crazy you've mentioned it in every Gordon thread ever since. I like that you don't really ever get personal on here with posters but you seem to have a weird personal thing with young guys on the roster.

Kawhi thing was always reach, but people thought George is realistic. In mean time PG broke leg, recovered and averaged 28 ppg, in mean time AG went from 12,6 ppg tl 16,00 ppg through same timetable while being 100% healthy....

Rudy Gay career trajectory of uber athlete without polished outside shot or ability to be your go to scoreer is still by far most realistic comparison. Been that for years.

[Audi]

Pepe - why are you trying to make a point about AG’s best season being when he was 20yo, when you are the king of pointing out that player stats on bad teams are meaningless?

[pepe1991]

Pepe - why are you trying to make a point about AG’s best season being when he was 20yo, when you are the king of pointing out that player stats on bad teams are meaningless?

Strictly from advance metrics, his best year ever was his second year.
Also that happend to be season where Magic won 35 games, second most in his career.

That's not really arguable.

His career - 0,2 OBPM that year was +0,6+
His career 0,4 DBPM that year was 1,2
His career 0,9 winshare per 48 min that year was 1,39
His career 53% TS, that year was 54%
That also happend to be only season in his career where his RPM ranked him in top 20 among his position and actually he was 13# in ORPM.

"Garbage man" Gordon , to this date, from advanced stats perspective was indeed - the best Aaron Gordon in co-relation with his influence on outcom of games.

He even improved after T.Harris trade and averaged 12 points ,7 rebounds with 54,4% TS.

But... than Skiles fired himself and this delusion and desturcion of his value by switching him at SF started when Vogel took over.
To this date guy keeps playing wrong position.

[Skin]

This is 6th year in a row where fans here get cought up into delusion of his potential based on literally nothing objective.

Don't curse at other people please. Thanks. - Knightro

No one thinks hes Kawhi. Yes, Ben started a thread years ago about their career trajectories. Ha ha crazy... so crazy you've mentioned it in every Gordon thread ever since. I like that you don't really ever get personal on here with posters but you seem to have a weird personal thing with young guys on the roster.

Kawhi thing was always reach, but people thought George is realistic. In mean time PG broke leg, recovered and averaged 28 ppg, in mean time AG went from 12,6 ppg tl 16,00 ppg through same timetable while being 100% healthy....

Rudy Gay career trajectory of uber athlete without polished outside shot or ability to be your go to scoreer is still by far most realistic comparison. Been that for years.

I don't remember anyone saying he's gonna be the next Kawhi or George. This is just you taking things out of context again. Vogel said he was gonna use AG at the 3 the same way he used George at the 3 which caused some excitement and some doubt on this forum but you took that to a level of understanding that Gordon was going to be the next George in terms of player comparison when it was more about position comparison.

Your bias against Gordon is pure. Even if expectations for him have diminished, and people have adjusted their opinions on him, you can't even handle it whenever something positive is said. It makes you angry which is hilarious.

[pepe1991]

Don't curse at other people please. Thanks. - Knightro

No one thinks hes Kawhi. Yes, Ben started a thread years ago about their career trajectories. Ha ha crazy... so crazy you've mentioned it in every Gordon thread ever since. I like that you don't really ever get personal on here with posters but you seem to have a weird personal thing with young guys on the roster.

Kawhi thing was always reach, but people thought George is realistic. In mean time PG broke leg, recovered and averaged 28 ppg, in mean time AG went from 12,6 ppg tl 16,00 ppg through same timetable while being 100% healthy....

Rudy Gay career trajectory of uber athlete without polished outside shot or ability to be your go to scoreer is still by far most realistic comparison. Been that for years.

I don't remember anyone saying he's gonna be the next Kawhi or George. This is just you taking things out of context again. Vogel said he was gonna use AG at the 3 the same way he used George at the 3 which caused some excitement and some doubt on this forum but you took that to a level of understanding that Gordon was going to be the next George in terms of player comparison when it was more about position comparison.

Your bias against Gordon is pure. Even if expectations for him have diminished, and people have adjusted their opinions on him, you can't even handle it whenever something positive is said. It makes you angry which is hilarious.

I don't remember anyone saying he's gonna be the next Kawhi or George.

You don't, but search system does

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1460222&p=48409288&hilit=aaron+gordon+paul+george#p48409288

Your bias against Gordon is pure. Even if expectations for him have diminished, and people have adjusted their opinions on him, you can't even handle it whenever something positive is said. It makes you angry which is hilarious.

You mean - people come around from unrealistic hype/ expetations to mine realistic outlook of him as nothing more than role player, witch is something i was saying all along, for last 4 years ?

Do you know what's hilarious? Me looking to find something this morning and finding your old post about Hennigan from 2016, you were biggest homer in whole world :You literally claimed Hennigan is good GM because he thought Gordon is better than Joel Embiid or something between that lines. Ouch .
To this date your most voted up post is you being Hennigan homer. In that post you claimed that Magic signed Ibaka , Biyombo and Green and it's amazing because --- wait for it - it gives them flexibility. Ouch

[j-ragg]

Me: I don’t think anyone thinks he’s Kawhi. That thread was years ago

Pepe: ya but some people have probably called him Paul George

Skin: I don’t think anyone calls him that either, at least not in the last couple years.

Pepe: ya? Well you thought we had flexibility 3 years ago!! Haha!

Pepe: *pats self on the back again*

[VFX]

I don’t really understand why it matters what people claim the career trajectory or comp of a player could be... it doesn’t matter.

The only thing that matters is if said player, AG in this instance, is putting up numbers similar to an allstar level player and contributing in a variety of ways.

Could it happen? Sure. Will it? Probably not. Why? Because ideally Clifford would be asking him to do things he doesn’t normally do entirely well, or at least hasn’t shown to be proficient, up to this point.

We don’t need AG to be Kawhi or Paul George. We need him to be the best version of AG. Let’s just hope that means having Vuc take 17-18 fga at 32mpg is part of the equation. I’d say it most likely isn’t.

[tiderulz]

Don't curse at other people please. Thanks. - Knightro

No one thinks hes Kawhi. Yes, Ben started a thread years ago about their career trajectories. Ha ha crazy... so crazy you've mentioned it in every Gordon thread ever since. I like that you don't really ever get personal on here with posters but you seem to have a weird personal thing with young guys on the roster.

Kawhi thing was always reach, but people thought George is realistic. In mean time PG broke leg, recovered and averaged 28 ppg, in mean time AG went from 12,6 ppg tl 16,00 ppg through same timetable while being 100% healthy....

Rudy Gay career trajectory of uber athlete without polished outside shot or ability to be your go to scoreer is still by far most realistic comparison. Been that for years.

I don't remember anyone saying he's gonna be the next Kawhi or George. This is just you taking things out of context again. Vogel said he was gonna use AG at the 3 the same way he used George at the 3 which caused some excitement and some doubt on this forum but you took that to a level of understanding that Gordon was going to be the next George in terms of player comparison when it was more about position comparison.

Your bias against Gordon is pure. Even if expectations for him have diminished, and people have adjusted their opinions on him, you can't even handle it whenever something positive is said. It makes you angry which is hilarious.

I dont remember Kawhi, but i remember a lot of people saying he would/could be just like George.

[MoMM]

Kawhi thing was always reach, but people thought George is realistic. In mean time PG broke leg, recovered and averaged 28 ppg, in mean time AG went from 12,6 ppg tl 16,00 ppg through same timetable while being 100% healthy....

Rudy Gay career trajectory of uber athlete without polished outside shot or ability to be your go to scoreer is still by far most realistic comparison. Been that for years.

I don't remember anyone saying he's gonna be the next Kawhi or George. This is just you taking things out of context again. Vogel said he was gonna use AG at the 3 the same way he used George at the 3 which caused some excitement and some doubt on this forum but you took that to a level of understanding that Gordon was going to be the next George in terms of player comparison when it was more about position comparison.

Your bias against Gordon is pure. Even if expectations for him have diminished, and people have adjusted their opinions on him, you can't even handle it whenever something positive is said. It makes you angry which is hilarious.

I dont remember Kawhi, but i remember a lot of people saying he would/could be just like George.

People used to say he would be the next big thing in terms of two-way SF.