RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#11 2019-20

[Bhut Jolokia]

Victor Oladipo

[SwatLakeCity527]

If KD hasn't been voted in now, he won't be. This just means that hey has about 15 dudes voting for him every round, and everyone else is pretending like he isn't there.

[Homerclease]

I think this is Rudy Gobert's spot.

Uh no it isn't. He's really overrated on here. I don't think he is a top 15 player at all. Yea he's good defensively, but he needs more offense too.

I take you don't watch the Jazz much. He anchored a 50-win team on both ends. Offensively, he's an elite roll-man who led the league in dunks and FG%. He's the #1 option offensively, who draws defenders into the paint. The impact he has on the game is greater than everyone on this list, aside from a healthy KD.

By comparison, Westbrook is inefficient to the point he hurts his team offensively, and Butler plays as a 2nd or 3rd option next to other All Stars. The last time Butler was a #1 option on offense was on the lottery-bound Bulls.

And his team gets blasted out of the playoffs on a yearly basis because he’s nowhere near a top 10 player. When his team plays against those with real top players they get their doors blown off. Gobert isn’t even a top 25 player to me.

[sixers4real]

Nominate Ben Simmons

[spicy6]

Why do people say this when it's objectively not true?

Because some people objectively try to watch the games instead of favoring there own player. Fact of the matter he was awful against the rockets for 2 years straight, was a net negative in the postseason(s), outplayed by capela, has no semblence of an offensive game whatsoever, and i dont even care about this one but he isnt even an all star (not that it particularly matters) but this board overrates the guy pretty hard.

It's funny how you act from the side of truth and accuse me of just being a homer. Your stance can't be proved because it literally did not happen. Instead of making an argument you make ad hominem attacks and try to appeal to a higher authority. Which is ironic because anyone who says that Gobert was unplayable in the Rockets series immediately exposes themselves for succumbing to narratives instead of actually watching the games. "No semblance of an offensive game" just furthers my point.

You can go back and watch the games or simply look at the numbers. It's not true at all. He was not outplayed by Capela two straight years, especially this past season. He was not unplayable in either series.

This is what another guy on this thread posted in reference to gobert's on/off.

Career playoff on/off:

Gobert
2017: -11.0
2018: -6.8 (Keep in mind the rockets series alone is a good amount worse)
2019: -17.1

And it goes back to my first point you have to be a jazz fan to argue that gobert outplayed capela these last 2 postseason runs because it didnt happen like at all especially in 2018. The no semblance of an offensive game is true i didnt mean to come off as a hater or anything but what is he doing?

Hes been in the league for what 6-7 years and still no post game, no mid range jumper, no consistent baby hook that he can go to, hes above average for a center for free throws but something else wouldnt hurt would it? We make fun of dwight but he still had an offensive game even though it was no hakeem, mchale or pau, etc... it was still something that got him 20+ ppg consistently in his magic days. Gobert is so overrated on this board theres a reason why hes been unplayable 2 straight postseasons against the rockets and isnt an all star to this day. And i did watch those rockets-jazz games he wasnt what he was in the RS which is a 16-13 guy who plays defense but nothing more than that he was worse. Hes a top 20-25 player imo but again to make a stance of him top 11 is disrespectful.

[Hroz]

Nominate Aldridge

[KqWIN]

Because some people objectively try to watch the games instead of favoring there own player. Fact of the matter he was awful against the rockets for 2 years straight, was a net negative in the postseason(s), outplayed by capela, has no semblence of an offensive game whatsoever, and i dont even care about this one but he isnt even an all star (not that it particularly matters) but this board overrates the guy pretty hard.

It's funny how you act from the side of truth and accuse me of just being a homer. Your stance can't be proved because it literally did not happen. Instead of making an argument you make ad hominem attacks and try to appeal to a higher authority. Which is ironic because anyone who says that Gobert was unplayable in the Rockets series immediately exposes themselves for succumbing to narratives instead of actually watching the games. "No semblance of an offensive game" just furthers my point.

You can go back and watch the games or simply look at the numbers. It's not true at all. He was not outplayed by Capela two straight years, especially this past season. He was not unplayable in either series.

This is what another guy on this thread posted in reference to gobert's on/off.

Career playoff on/off:

Gobert
2017: -11.0
2018: -6.8 (Keep in mind the rockets series alone is a good amount worse)
2019: -17.1

And it goes back to my first point you have to be a jazz fan to argue that gobert outplayed capela these last 2 postseason runs because it didnt happen like at all especially in 2018. The no semblance of an offensive game is true i didnt mean to come off as a hater or anything but what is he doing?

Hes been in the league for what 6-7 years and still no post game, no mid range jumper, no consistent baby hook that he can go to, hes above average for a center for free throws but something else wouldnt hurt would it? We make fun of dwight but he still had an offensive game even though it was no hakeem, mchale or pau, etc... it was still something that got him 20+ ppg consistently in his magic days. Gobert is so overrated on this board theres a reason why hes been unplayable 2 straight postseasons against the rockets and isnt an all star to this day. And i did watch those rockets-jazz games he wasnt what he was in the RS which is a 16-13 guy who plays defense but nothing more than that he was worse. Hes a top 20-25 player imo but again to make a stance of him top 11 is disrespectful.

His on/off should be considered. Especially what that actually means in this context, which is essentially the starters versus bench units. The Jazz bench did better against opposing benches relative to how the Jazz starters played against other starters. Does that mean Gobert is unplayable? No, it means that they were undermanned and beat by better teams.

As far as the Gobert vs Capela thing, feel free to look at the numbers. Offensively, it's very difficult to argue that Capela was better. They played similar roles and scored the same amount. The difference is that Gobert was significantly more efficient in much tougher situations. Think about who was delivering the ball to Capela and the surrounding shooting. It's not even remotely close. Everything was in Capela's favor, and yet Gobert was more efficient.

Defensively, the tasks were significantly different. There's a gigantic mismatch in terms of perimeter talent. Ultimately Capela did a fantastic job in switching situations. You can't take that away from him. You also can't deny the effect that Gobert had and has had on elite offenses, exclusively with hall of fame talent, in playoff situations. The Jazz have exclusively played against elite offenses with hall of fame talent on the perimeter. That's supposed to be Gobert's nightmare, and yet the defense has held up every time.

I'm not surprised that you resorted to ad hominen attacks, because you don't actually have an argument. You just say something as fact with nothing to back it up besides, "you're a Jazz fan". That's hysterical. Ask me how I feel about the rest of the Jazz players in that series. Trust me, it is not favorable to all Jazz players. Being a Jazz fan DOES play a factor into my analysis of their playoff success. It makes me critically evaluate what when wrong and why they lost. When you take a critical (doesn't even have to be critical) look at the playoff successes and failures, it's inherently obvious as to what the problem is. It also becomes incredibly obvious that someone who scapegoats Gobert as "unplayable" or "liability" doesn't know what they're talking about.

At the end of the day, these exaggerated claims just make you look like an idiot. If Favors outplays Gobert and earns the right to finish a game, that doesn't make Gobert unplayable. Favors is a really good player, and saying that Gobert is a liability because Favors finishes games over him once in a blue moon is suggesting that Favors is also unplayable for 9/10 times. Is that a statement that you want to stand by? Or is Gobert just the better player and that's why Favs typically sits on the bench. If CJ McCollum takes the last shot because he has the hot hand, it doesn't mean that Lillard (who typically takes the last shot) is incapable taking a last shot. That's the same situation we're talking here.

If he was truly unplayable, he'd be unplayable. He wouldn't play, start, and finish every game besides the occasional time when Derrick Favors has a great game and closes. There has only been two times where Favors has gotten the finish over him, who once again, is a really good C. The first one was when Gobert was playing on one leg after he was injured in the Clipper series. You might say that Gobert is less effective in the playoffs...maybe even that Favors is better in the playoffs. I would disagree to some extent, but that's not the argument you're presenting. You're stating that Gobert is literally unplayable, and these over exaggerations are telling. Personally, I think Gobert is in a sizable group of NBA stars (some of which have already been listed), who see their enormous effects during the playoffs somewhat diminished in the playoffs. They are not all liabilities because of it.

The zero offensive game is the same over exaggeration. I don't know if you're purposely avoiding Gobert offensive game, or if you actually are this out of touch. The only thing you could come up with his FT shooting? That's...wow. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're purposely avoiding the obvious offensive game that Gobert has. He's arguably the best pick and roll big in the league. Nobody scores at the same rate and efficiency, and nobody sets better screens. Rim running bigs aren't useless. They're an important piece to the modern game and Gobert happens to be the best at it.

He is a specialist, I will give you that. That does not mean he has zero offensive game. It actually makes it very easy to say that he has more than zero offensive game, because clearly he's got a specialty and is very good at it. Of course, specialty can be also said as limited. That's fair to tag Gobert with that label, but that doesn't mean he has zero offensive game. He's also clearly a better offensive player than other players who may be more versatile. Same goes for a lot of other offensive specialist as well.

No one would say that argue that Redick has zero offensive game and say that he's never developed a mid post game or drive and kick game after all these years. Fact is, Redick is a specialist and does something valuable in todays game. No one sees him as an elite offensive players, but they understand that he provides a significant amount of value despite being a specialist without a diversified game. Gobert is the same way. He performs a role extremely well, and that role has a lot of value. Not only do Gobert and Redick convert opportunities at a very high efficiency, but they create opportunities for their teammates as defenses key in and focus on taking them away.

The real reason why the Jazz have had playoff failures is their inability to score. In these most recent playoffs especially, it was their ability to make wide open shots, which they had more of than anyone in the playoffs by a sizable margin. Watch 5 minutes of that series and you'll see how the Jazz are getting those shots and who HOU is focusing on that allows for these wide open 3's.

PS: I didn't even vote for Gobert

[TheProfessor]

It's between Irving and Butler for me, in terms of fit I think Irving is at a better place. I dont like the spacing or players aside winslow on MIA. Butler's going to have troubles getting his and Butler isn't an all nba defender anymore. Give me Irving.

[KqWIN]

Jrue Holiday for nomination.

[kobyz]

lol Gobert over Draymond, Draymond has much as impact defensively while also literally being the system on offense of the best offense in the league with his one in a lifetime playmaking as a big...

Am I tripping, or does Steph Curry exist? RealGM gets really weird in the summer.

Do people actually find these outlandish "arguments" convincing?

Curry is the number 1 weapon, but Green uniqueness is what make that free type offense be able to exist and everyone to flourish

[Cartuse]

I've never really been a fan of Westbrook but the man is starting to get disrespected like crazy

[ThatClockWork]

Toss up between Butler and Gobert. Went with Jimmy. Tough call at this stage.

Note that I think westbrook will still be good. Not sure if he will be @ no. 11 though. Hou will probably stagger him and Harden to keep things interesting at times since they are both so ball dominant.

[spicy6]

I've never really been a fan of Westbrook but the man is starting to get disrespected like crazy

This is realgm. Towns has 13 votes gobert of all players has more votes than russ and a guy who couldnt even make an all nba team is leading this group. Dont take this board seriously anyway.

[iggymcfrack]

I've never really been a fan of Westbrook but the man is starting to get disrespected like crazy

This is realgm. Towns has 13 votes gobert of all players has more votes than russ and a guy who couldnt even make an all nba team is leading this group. Dont take this board seriously anyway.

The only reason Jimmy Butler didn’t get all-NBA is that the voters were punishing him for his trade request. He was all-NBA both of the previous seasons in 2017 and 2018.

Westbrook is gonna be 31 years old when the season starts coming off of massive declines each of the previous 2 seasons. Last year he was 42nd in RPM, 35th in PER, and 41st in playoff PER. What exactly makes you think he’s being disrespected not being voted in the Top 11?

I think everyone acknowledges that he used to be an elite player, but he’s the exact kind of player that you’d guess would decline early since he’s so heavy on athleticism, and so far that’s exactly what he’s done. In the entire history of the league, it’s unprecedented for a player to fall off that much at that age and then return to form. Personally I can’t see him ever being a top 20 player again.

[alessandrux]

Please add Chris Paul to the next poll.

[CptCrunch]

The Rockets hate is insane here. Last year, Westbrook was #8. No injuries, all players ahead of him aside from Jokic got older. Westbrook is gonna be #13-15 this year. What a friggen joke.

This poll has ZERO credibility.

[ElectricMayhem]

Last year, Westbrook was #8. No injuries, all players ahead of him aside from Jokic got older.

Nobody defeats Father Time...

...except Nikola Jokic.

[+2number4+]

Irving, add Murray.

With Denver most probably in the top 4 this season, I just think there should be two top 20 players in their roster. And i genuinely believe he'd be better and have higher ceiling than Simmons.

What? I just like that guy.

[spicy6]

I've never really been a fan of Westbrook but the man is starting to get disrespected like crazy

This is realgm. Towns has 13 votes gobert of all players has more votes than russ and a guy who couldnt even make an all nba team is leading this group. Dont take this board seriously anyway.

The only reason Jimmy Butler didn’t get all-NBA is that the voters were punishing him for his trade request. He was all-NBA both of the previous seasons in 2017 and 2018.

Westbrook is gonna be 31 years old when the season starts coming off of massive declines each of the previous 2 seasons. Last year he was 42nd in RPM, 35th in PER, and 41st in playoff PER. What exactly makes you think he’s being disrespected not being voted in the Top 11?

I think everyone acknowledges that he used to be an elite player, but he’s the exact kind of player that you’d guess would decline early since he’s so heavy on athleticism, and so far that’s exactly what he’s done. In the entire history of the league, it’s unprecedented for a player to fall off that much at that age and then return to form. Personally I can’t see him ever being a top 20 player again.

Paul George wasnt even an all star in 2018 untill an injury had occurred yet in the 2019 season we was all nba first team and a top 3 MVP canidate, this isnt 2017 or 2018 in reference to butler and he wasnt consistent last year playoffs included sure he had his moments at the end of a few games against the raptors but the result is the same, nor was he an all star in the east at that. And ya I agree russ isnt even a top 50 player if we're being honest I think he would be better as a 7th man potentially behind eric gordon the rockets would have one of the better benches in the league.

[sleepingbunch]

I vote Westbrook. Yes his efficiency has decreased but he can still dominate in ways nobody else left is capable of. 11 seems like the right spot for him.

I nominate Jrue Holiday.