WOJ: Julius Randle 3/63M (Team Option)

[seren]

Here is a question for you. Which one is more likely regarding Randle this upcoming season:

Average 20 ppg with Chris Paul as the PG;
Average 20 ppg with DSJr and Payton

Yes. I do want to trade for a competent lead guard to help this team.

Cp3 is more interesting after December. Right now, making salaries match would be impossible.
The level of separation next year between cp3 and dsj statistically may not be that much though.

Unless his contract becomes an expiring or he becomes 29 years old again after December, there is nothing interesting about CP3.

Who are we targeting next summer? AD?

[DOT]

it's not an attack. i'm being honest, i can't tell if you're serious sometimes. a couple of weeks ago you wanted the knicks to trade for chris paul, not because we'd get picks (you didn't care about that), you wanted him the player. you have interesting ideas. what can i say ?

Here is a question for you. Which one is more likely regarding Randle this upcoming season:

Average 20 ppg with Chris Paul as the PG;
Average 20 ppg with DSJr and Payton

Yes. I do want to trade for a competent lead guard to help this team.

Cp3 is more interesting after December. Right now, making salaries match would be impossible.
The level of separation next year between cp3 and dsj statistically may not be that much though.

If he were on a 2 year deal, you might have a point

But having him take up 45 million dollars in the summer of 21 is an absolute dealbreaker

[GONYK]

Cp3 is more interesting after December. Right now, making salaries match would be impossible.
The level of separation next year between cp3 and dsj statistically may not be that much though.

Unless his contract becomes an expiring or he becomes 29 years old again after December, there is nothing interesting about CP3.

Who are we targeting next summer? AD?

Paul's contract runs until 2022

[seren]

Unless his contract becomes an expiring or he becomes 29 years old again after December, there is nothing interesting about CP3.

Who are we targeting next summer? AD?

Paul's contract runs until 2022

Greek freak?

[K_ick_God]

One thing seems certain, Randle is either on the verge of being a top player or will slide back a bit. He's clearly a capable scorer though. He has a good feel around the basket and now he can shoot 3's. Or at least he could last year. He's not a natural shooter, but he moves well for a big body and has perfected some moves.

It's funny because I get that KP is tall and that he's a defender around the basket, but Randle is really pretty far ahead of him offensively I think. And there's not a huge gap in age either.

EDIT: Actually in 4 days they'll be the same age at 24 years. Randle is 8 months older.

[Knicksfan1992]

Man the narrative around Chris Paul has really damaged what he's actually worth still today. I don't think he's the right fit for the Knicks (More like 7 years ago) but I mean the man hasn't turned into a scrub either. He still averaged 16/8/5 last year on an above average ts% and he's still a good defender... He's essentially Mike Conley level at this point. Is he worth that massive deal? eh probably not but I think he's far from the worst contract in the league like he's been treated as on here... I also think the Rockets got hosed in their trade with him.

[GONYK]

Who are we targeting next summer? AD?

Paul's contract runs until 2022

Greek freak?

So we should tie up all means of flexibility until 2022 for what reason exactly?

So the Knicks might have a marginally better offense in a season that we aren't even remotely close to contending?

[god shammgod]

Paul's contract runs until 2022

Greek freak?

So we should tie up all means of flexibility until 2022 for what reason exactly?

So the Knicks might have a marginally better offense in a season that we aren't even remotely close to contending?

there it is. the logic this discussion needed. who cares if cp runs the offense a little better ? what is the endgame ? this is ridiculous.

[DOT]

Man the narrative around Chris Paul has really damaged what he's actually worth still today. I don't think he's the right fit for the Knicks (More like 7 years ago) but I mean the man hasn't turned into a scrub either. He still averaged 16/8/5 last year on an above average ts% and he's still a good defender... He's essentially Mike Conley level at this point. Is he worth that massive deal? eh probably not but I think he's far from the worst contract in the league like he's been treated as on here... I also think the Rockets got hosed in their trade with him.

He's a good player who's massively overpaid and is 34

I take him if I'm trying to compete this year and I need a PG but have other star talent and will be over the cap the next couple years anyways, but not in our situation. Like maybe Philly, San Antonio, hell I'd be seriously interested if I were Orlando. But not us, not for where we are

[seren]

Paul's contract runs until 2022

Greek freak?

So we should tie up all means of flexibility until 2022 for what reason exactly?

So the Knicks might have a marginally better offense in a season that we aren't even remotely close to contending?

I think we have some players on the roster that we need to see what they are capable of. I think having incapable guards hurt us to rightfully evaluate their worth. I think Robinson, Randle, RJ, Frank and all other rookie contract players would immensely benefit from that. Doesn’t have to be Paul. However, I do believe this every man on his own offense with incapable guards do not help the cause. If you can get a guy like Paul without giving up any value other than the cap (which we seem to waste on overpaying role players anyways), I think it is the way to go.

I would feel differently if the team committed to just play youth, use cap space for future assets and let the chips fall but they don’t want to do that.

[DOT]

Greek freak?

So we should tie up all means of flexibility until 2022 for what reason exactly?

So the Knicks might have a marginally better offense in a season that we aren't even remotely close to contending?

there it is. the logic this discussion needed. who cares if cp runs the offense a little better ? what is the endgame ? this is ridiculous.

I do understand the point, the theory is that by having an actual good facilitator, our young guys like RJ, Knox, and Mitch will have an easier time developing offensively because they don't have to work as hard all the time because CP3 is putting them in the best positions

But then you run into the brick wall that is getting him would destroy our flexibility. If he were only under contract for 2 years, or if we weren't aiming to have cap space in 2021, I'd be for it. But because he isn't, and we are, logically speaking it's not worth it

[GONYK]

Man the narrative around Chris Paul has really damaged what he's actually worth still today. I don't think he's the right fit for the Knicks (More like 7 years ago) but I mean the man hasn't turned into a scrub either. He still averaged 16/8/5 last year on an above average ts% and he's still a good defender... He's essentially Mike Conley level at this point. Is he worth that massive deal? eh probably not but I think he's far from the worst contract in the league like he's been treated as on here... I also think the Rockets got hosed in their trade with him.

He's a good player who's massively overpaid and is 34

I take him if I'm trying to compete this year and I need a PG but have other star talent and will be over the cap the next couple years anyways, but not in our situation. Like maybe Philly, San Antonio, hell I'd be seriously interested if I were Orlando. But not us, not for where we are

Yea. It's generous to say that he's on Conley's level. Conley hasn't lost the step that CP3 has.

He's definitely overpaid, but I would take him if I'm a contending team. I would much rather have him than Westbrook.

But only teams where this upcoming year is a priority should apply. That isn't us.

[god shammgod]

So we should tie up all means of flexibility until 2022 for what reason exactly?

So the Knicks might have a marginally better offense in a season that we aren't even remotely close to contending?

there it is. the logic this discussion needed. who cares if cp runs the offense a little better ? what is the endgame ? this is ridiculous.

I do understand the point, the theory is that by having an actual good facilitator, our young guys like RJ, Knox, and Mitch will have an easier time developing offensively because they don't have to work as hard all the time because CP3 is putting them in the best positions

But then you run into the brick wall that is getting him would destroy our flexibility. If he were only under contract for 2 years, or if we weren't aiming to have cap space in 2021, I'd be for it. But because he isn't, and we are, logically speaking it's not worth it

i can see that point in a vacuum but the reality of it is his contract is 3/8 of the salary cap per year. not to mention one of, 2 if you count frank, our young guys is a point guard. and our rookie is a guy who looks best with the ball in his hands making decisions. these guys need to develop. are we benching our 40 mill a year pg and having him be a mentor ?

[DOT]

there it is. the logic this discussion needed. who cares if cp runs the offense a little better ? what is the endgame ? this is ridiculous.

I do understand the point, the theory is that by having an actual good facilitator, our young guys like RJ, Knox, and Mitch will have an easier time developing offensively because they don't have to work as hard all the time because CP3 is putting them in the best positions

But then you run into the brick wall that is getting him would destroy our flexibility. If he were only under contract for 2 years, or if we weren't aiming to have cap space in 2021, I'd be for it. But because he isn't, and we are, logically speaking it's not worth it

i can see that point in a vacuum but the reality of it is his contract is 3/8 of the salary cap per year. not to mention one of, 2 if you count frank, or young guys is a point guard. and our rookie is a guy who looks best with the ball in his hands making decisions. these guys need to develop. are we benching our 40 mill a year pg and having him be a mentor ?

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying

[Clyde_Style]

seren been on this site for damn near 20 years and i'm still not sure if it's all been one extended joke

Waiting for the "I want to trade our players for moon rocks" post

[seren]

One thing seems certain, Randle is either on the verge of being a top player or will slide back a bit. He's clearly a capable scorer though. He has a good feel around the basket and now he can shoot 3's. Or at least he could last year. He's not a natural shooter, but he moves well for a big body and has perfected some moves.

It's funny because I get that KP is tall and that he's a defender around the basket, but Randle is really pretty far ahead of him offensively I think. And there's not a huge gap in age either.

EDIT: Actually in 4 days they'll be the same age at 24 years. Randle is 8 months older.

We can all hate on KP with the way he treated this team. We can also question his durability. That said, Randle and KP are different level players. KP has the defensive impact that Randle simply can’t replicate.

[god shammgod]

kp was an elite help defender but as a one on one defender he wasn't very good at all. he would get bullied by big guys down low and he was always slow to contest shooters on the perimeter.

[Clyde_Style]

kp was an elite help defender but as a one on one defender he wasn't very good at all. he would get bullied by big guys down low and he was always slow to contest shooters on the perimeter.

Exactly. You still need to compensate for him getting abused on the perimeter.

When you talk about blocks and help defense it does make sense to compare him to Mitch, because Mitch has range defensively while playing center so he's not getting beat very often. KP was sometimes a turnstile up top.

TBH, some of KP's help D blocks are recovery blocks after getting beaten which is not as impressive as Mitch's blocks which have crazy natural skill. KP is basically tall so he should get some of those blocks. Mitch gets blocks KP will never get. Ever.

Not sure why anyone really needs to compare Randle to KP, but I posted the stats already that shows Randle has ALWAYS been around a top 20 rebounder while giving up close to half a foot to KP whose peak was # 35.

and Randle has close to triple the assists of KP so he actually projects to be a more fluid piece in any offensive scheme whereas the ball stuck to KP once he got it. He rarely passes and as a result he takes more bad shots.

[DOT]

kp was an elite help defender but as a one on one defender he wasn't very good at all. he would get bullied by big guys down low and he was always slow to contest shooters on the perimeter.

That's really not true though, he was pretty average at post defense after his rookie year, with opponents shooting 40% against him in post ups the year he got hurt, and 36% in isolation. Really the only places he struggled were in the PnR and against spot up shooters, which are both dependent on teammates, and given that he was statistically elite defending spot ups his rookie year to one of the worst in the league his 2nd and 3rd years, I tend to side on it being more of a scheme thing than a problem with him

But as a one on one defender, he was very good

[malik959]

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