DeMar DeRozan is underrated all of a sudden

[magicman1978]

It's one thing if it was just a one off. But DD has been a net negative player almost every year of his career on (now) 2 different teams. The raps themselves have had a lot of roster turnover during his tenure and he was still almost always a net negative guy. He just doesnt have high impact play.

What were the similarities in the two teams. I just roll my eyes when I read the term net negative these days. No context either.

Regardless of what you think of net ratings, almost always having the team be better when youre on the bench is absolutely telling. Especially when the other star on the team (Lowry) is a huge net positive almost every year and is top 10 in the league (amongst guys with reasonable minutes)

Yep, it's not like the bench only plays better when Derozan is off the court. The numbers are consistent across every season. There's a correlation there.

[Duffman100]

Going from the Raptors to the Spurs will do that to you.

His raw numbers actually took a jump last season and he's always been pretty durable, which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for.
This thread just proves that he's underrated if anything.

Averaged 22/6/6 on 48/82 last year. Yeah he doesn't shoot 3's but he is still a very efficient scorer and can pick teams apart in the mid-range. With everyone being so obsessed with advanced stats and fantasy basketball it makes sense that he's underrated, but the guy can still play and make an impact.

Just for fun I'll give you my loosely ranked players:

1.Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Harden
4. Leonard
5. Curry
6. Davis
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. George
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Irving
13. Gobert
14. Beal
15. Westbrook
16. Walker
17. Butler
18. Vucevic
19. Holiday
20. Doncic
21. Thompson
22. Griffin
23. Mitchell
24. Simmons
25. Aldridge

After that it starts to get into Derozan range. Draymond, Drummond, D'Lo, Middleton, Paul, Booker, Lowry, Conley, Siakam, Fox, Lavine, Randle all could have arguments over DD. I also left out Durant, Oladipo, Wall, and Porzingis because they all suffered pretty serious injuries and I'm not sure how they'll come back. I'd take those 25 guys over him for sure, and after that he's in the next tier of players.

Lowry is a top 20 player.

[dhsilv2]

I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

They had one of the best benches in the league. People shouldn’t use on/off if they aren’t even going to try to understand context.

It's one thing if it was just a one off. But DD has been a net negative player almost every year of his career on (now) 2 different teams. The raps themselves have had a lot of roster turnover during his tenure and he was still almost always a net negative guy. He just doesnt have high impact play.

Can't find it now but he doesn't look any better in a multie year RAPM which should remove any possible noise from quality bench players. RAPM isn't perfect at removing the noise in plus minus but it's not going to miss by THAT much with a guy like DD.

[macNcheese3]

He's not underrated he's just unable to play as well as he does during the regular season during the playoffs when the defense gets better. He's always been a good regular season player.

Well said. Just not a guy who can play under pressure and defences in the playoffs.

[Scalabrine]

Going from the Raptors to the Spurs will do that to you.

His raw numbers actually took a jump last season and he's always been pretty durable, which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for.
This thread just proves that he's underrated if anything.

Averaged 22/6/6 on 48/82 last year. Yeah he doesn't shoot 3's but he is still a very efficient scorer and can pick teams apart in the mid-range. With everyone being so obsessed with advanced stats and fantasy basketball it makes sense that he's underrated, but the guy can still play and make an impact.

Just for fun I'll give you my loosely ranked players:

1.Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Harden
4. Leonard
5. Curry
6. Davis
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. George
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Irving
13. Gobert
14. Beal
15. Westbrook
16. Walker
17. Butler
18. Vucevic
19. Holiday
20. Doncic
21. Thompson
22. Griffin
23. Mitchell
24. Simmons
25. Aldridge

After that it starts to get into Derozan range. Draymond, Drummond, D'Lo, Middleton, Paul, Booker, Lowry, Conley, Siakam, Fox, Lavine, Randle all could have arguments over DD. I also left out Durant, Oladipo, Wall, and Porzingis because they all suffered pretty serious injuries and I'm not sure how they'll come back. I'd take those 25 guys over him for sure, and after that he's in the next tier of players.

I stopped reading your list after you put overrated Irving over Westbrook.

Seems like you stopped reading a little before that where I said "Loosely ranked". They are just 3 spots away from eachother.

[skones]

Having my grandmother play backup centre behind embiid shouldn't make him 30 points better but it does. Context is generally important. Ignore it all in original posts if you want to make him outside top 50 now... I don't really care.

LOL, yes, it absolutely SHOULD work like that.

[nikster]

He's not underrated he's just unable to play as well as he does during the regular season during the playoffs when the defense gets better. He's always been a good regular season player.

He actually did just as good if not slightly better in the playoffs this year as he did in the season. But he will need more of that to change the narrative

[Richard Miller]

If you get shutdown by Torrey Craig you're not exactly going places

[SeniorWalker]

I actually think he's rated fairly now.

Saying he's a top 20 player is pushing it. I'd say 25-30 range

Yeah. To me he's an allstar and nothing more. And not necessarily a strong Allstar either.
Hes a very average athlete in terms of quickness, (not particularly special above the rim either) and I think benefits playing in an era with weaker defensive rules. His footwork is solid and he can create separation but he's not anything special.

I've always thought that if he played in the 2000s he wouldnt even make an allstar team, there were so many guys much better than him at the guard spot.

[baller16]

Going from the Raptors to the Spurs will do that to you.

His raw numbers actually took a jump last season and he's always been pretty durable, which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for.
This thread just proves that he's underrated if anything.

Averaged 22/6/6 on 48/82 last year. Yeah he doesn't shoot 3's but he is still a very efficient scorer and can pick teams apart in the mid-range. With everyone being so obsessed with advanced stats and fantasy basketball it makes sense that he's underrated, but the guy can still play and make an impact.

Just for fun I'll give you my loosely ranked players:

1.Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Harden
4. Leonard
5. Curry
6. Davis
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. George
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Irving
13. Gobert
14. Beal
15. Westbrook
16. Walker
17. Butler
18. Vucevic
19. Holiday
20. Doncic
21. Thompson
22. Griffin
23. Mitchell
24. Simmons
25. Aldridge

After that it starts to get into Derozan range. Draymond, Drummond, D'Lo, Middleton, Paul, Booker, Lowry, Conley, Siakam, Fox, Lavine, Randle all could have arguments over DD. I also left out Durant, Oladipo, Wall, and Porzingis because they all suffered pretty serious injuries and I'm not sure how they'll come back. I'd take those 25 guys over him for sure, and after that he's in the next tier of players.

In what world is Vucevic a top 20 player? He managed to put up a playoff performance worse than Demar's worst by a decent margin too. Lowry need to be swapped with Vucevic

[Scalabrine]

Going from the Raptors to the Spurs will do that to you.

His raw numbers actually took a jump last season and he's always been pretty durable, which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for.
This thread just proves that he's underrated if anything.

Averaged 22/6/6 on 48/82 last year. Yeah he doesn't shoot 3's but he is still a very efficient scorer and can pick teams apart in the mid-range. With everyone being so obsessed with advanced stats and fantasy basketball it makes sense that he's underrated, but the guy can still play and make an impact.

Just for fun I'll give you my loosely ranked players:

1.Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Harden
4. Leonard
5. Curry
6. Davis
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. George
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Irving
13. Gobert
14. Beal
15. Westbrook
16. Walker
17. Butler
18. Vucevic
19. Holiday
20. Doncic
21. Thompson
22. Griffin
23. Mitchell
24. Simmons
25. Aldridge

After that it starts to get into Derozan range. Draymond, Drummond, D'Lo, Middleton, Paul, Booker, Lowry, Conley, Siakam, Fox, Lavine, Randle all could have arguments over DD. I also left out Durant, Oladipo, Wall, and Porzingis because they all suffered pretty serious injuries and I'm not sure how they'll come back. I'd take those 25 guys over him for sure, and after that he's in the next tier of players.

In what world is Vucevic a top 20 player? He managed to put up a playoff performance worse than Demar's worst by a decent margin too. Lowry need to be swapped with Vucevic

He averaged 22/12/4 with a block, steal, and 3 per game with 52/37/78 shooting splits over 80 games and you want to use a 5 game sample size to judge him?

[I_Like_Dirt]

He actually did just as good if not slightly better in the playoffs this year as he did in the season. But he will need more of that to change the narrative

He had the worst on/off playoff season of his career so far by a significant margin. His individual numbers were better but the team cratered with him on the floor just like it always does.

These last playoffs are honestly a pretty amazing example of how Demar's impact just doesn't match up with his individual numbers. The rest of the Spurs lineup was remarkably competitive against the Nuggets and they generally outscored the Spurs whenever Demar was on the bench regardless of who else was playing. When Demar was out there, the Nuggets went on run after run and took over the games. And it gets even more nuanced because Jakob Poeltl would start games along with Demar and was a solid + for the series so it wasn't Demar out of the gates getting burned by the other team's starters. It was later on in the game, whenever Demar was out there, the team was just plain utterly destroyed.

[Ken Bannister]

DeMar let's his anxiety get the best of him come playoff time

That's why he under-performs

[Roco14]

You can say he's top 20 on the offensive end, but his defense is so putrid that some people might not even put him in their top 30 or 40 overall. He also tends to suck in the playoffs especially when it gets tight and there's pressure.

[jbk1234]

He's not underrated. His skill set doesn't translate to post-season success if he's a core piece. If he's a sixth man, you might have a contending team. But you can't pay those guys $27M per.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[The_Hater]

And ya, dont get it twisted, Lowry has always been the best player and the leader of the team.

90% of connected Raptor fans will tell you that Lowry was the best player on those teams where they shared the spotlight, every season he would win the vote in the Raptors forum with around 90% of the total votes between them.

It’s the people who aren’t Raptor fans or are just causal Raptor fans who wrongly thought it was Derozan, mainly because those fans gravitate towards the leading scorer and ignore everything that matters.

[Chinook]

Yes, he's a much better player than people try to argue. He has more impact on winning too. People have gotten themselves tangled up when it comes to stats like RPM. Their purpose is to give us a way to understand how good players are good, not to tell us who is good in the first place. "High-impact players" don't consistently get their teams to the playoffs like "low-impact" stars do.

DeRozan isn't a superstar/cornerstone guy. He's not better than Aldridge. But he's way better than a lot of the guys everyone thinks are more valuable. For it being his first year with the Spurs, I thought he played pretty damned well, especially in the first half of the season. Hopefully, he and Pop can build on that just like LMA and Pop did. Getting everything to work with Murray coming back isn't going to be easy, but the upside is definitely there.

That is the real shame about Pop doing the USANT thing. This roster has talent that's going to need a great gameplan to make work to its highest capacity, and not only will they have to do so minus their top two assistants, but they won't even have their head coach until almost training camp.

[DonMega]

He was always fairly rated by SI at 46 etc, dude was overrated by our bandwagon fans.

[baller16]

Going from the Raptors to the Spurs will do that to you.

His raw numbers actually took a jump last season and he's always been pretty durable, which he doesn't get nearly enough credit for.
This thread just proves that he's underrated if anything.

Averaged 22/6/6 on 48/82 last year. Yeah he doesn't shoot 3's but he is still a very efficient scorer and can pick teams apart in the mid-range. With everyone being so obsessed with advanced stats and fantasy basketball it makes sense that he's underrated, but the guy can still play and make an impact.

Just for fun I'll give you my loosely ranked players:

1.Giannis
2. LeBron
3. Harden
4. Leonard
5. Curry
6. Davis
7. Embiid
8. Jokic
9. George
10. Lillard
11. Towns
12. Irving
13. Gobert
14. Beal
15. Westbrook
16. Walker
17. Butler
18. Vucevic
19. Holiday
20. Doncic
21. Thompson
22. Griffin
23. Mitchell
24. Simmons
25. Aldridge

After that it starts to get into Derozan range. Draymond, Drummond, D'Lo, Middleton, Paul, Booker, Lowry, Conley, Siakam, Fox, Lavine, Randle all could have arguments over DD. I also left out Durant, Oladipo, Wall, and Porzingis because they all suffered pretty serious injuries and I'm not sure how they'll come back. I'd take those 25 guys over him for sure, and after that he's in the next tier of players.

In what world is Vucevic a top 20 player? He managed to put up a playoff performance worse than Demar's worst by a decent margin too. Lowry need to be swapped with Vucevic

He averaged 22/12/4 with a block, steal, and 3 per game with 52/37/78 shooting splits over 80 games and you want to use a 5 game sample size to judge him?

And Derozan averaged 21/6/6 on 54 TS% but why isn't he top 20? Vucevic is just the center version of Demar, they both get exposed in the playoffs and they're not top 20 by any means

[dhsilv2]

In what world is Vucevic a top 20 player? He managed to put up a playoff performance worse than Demar's worst by a decent margin too. Lowry need to be swapped with Vucevic

He averaged 22/12/4 with a block, steal, and 3 per game with 52/37/78 shooting splits over 80 games and you want to use a 5 game sample size to judge him?

And Derozan averaged 21/6/6 on 54 TS% but why isn't he top 20? Vucevic is just the center version of Demar, they both get exposed in the playoffs and they're not top 20 by any means

One is the worst defensive player starting consistently over the last 5+ years. The other is a defensive anchor.