Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 II: BIG as F

VFX · Post #1561 » by **VFX** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:40 am

basketballRob wrote:Reading the trades and transactions board almost every other topic was a proposed trade for one of our players. Most of them involved AG. I guess our players are viewed to have value now.

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More like people know Orlando’s roster is duplicative, doesn’t make sense, and they can see there are massive holes that need to be filled, hinged on redemption projects and role players.

rcklsscognition · Post #1562 » by **rcklsscognition** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:37 pm

Was playing around with the CARMELO rankings for next season:

Vucevic: Borderline All-star, +6.3 WARP, comparison: Robert Parish

DJ: Offensive specialist, +2.6 WARP, comparison: Jason Williams
Ross: Rotation player, +2.3 WARP, comparison: Gerald Green
AG: Up-and-comer, 2.3 WARP, comparison: Tobias
Aminu: Rotation player, +1.2 WARP, comparison: Marvin Williams
Birch: Rotation player, +1.0 WARP, comparison: Dedmon
Isaac: Up-and-comer, +0.3 WARP, comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Fultz: Up-and-comer, -0.3 WARP, comparison: Monta Ellis
Iwundu: Defensive specialist, -0.5 WARP, comparison: James Ennis III
Fournier: Average starter, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Allan Houston
Bamba: Defensive specialist, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Darko

Post #1563 » by **Knightro** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:59 pm

Read on Twitter

OrlandoNed · Post #1564 » by **OrlandoNed** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:59 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:Was playing around with the CARMELO rankings for next season:

Vucevic: Borderline All-star, +6.3 WARP, comparison: Robert Parish
DJ: Offensive specialist, +2.6 WARP, comparison: Jason Williams
Ross: Rotation player, +2.3 WARP, comparison: Gerald Green
AG: Up-and-comer, 2.3 WARP, comparison: Tobias
Aminu: Rotation player, +1.2 WARP, comparison: Marvin Williams
Birch: Rotation player, +1.0 WARP, comparison: Dedmon
Isaac: Up-and-comer, +0.3 WARP, comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Fultz: Up-and-comer, -0.3 WARP, comparison: Monta Ellis
Iwundu: Defensive specialist, -0.5 WARP, comparison: James Ennis III
Fournier: Average starter, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Allan Houston
Bamba: Defensive specialist, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Darko

Wow, look at DJ way up there. Man, having DJ off the bench would be disgustingly good if Fultz can get back to being himself again.

Illmatic12 · Post #1565 » by **Illmatic12** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:04 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Reading the trades and transactions board almost every other topic was a proposed trade for one of our players. Most of them involved AG. I guess our players are viewed to have value now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

More like people know Orlando’s roster is duplicative, doesn’t make sense, and they can see there are massive holes that need to be filled, hinged on redemption projects and role players.

Wizards fan here - Would I be correct in assuming that Orlando is looking for a dynamic guard to pair with Isaac+Vuc? Bc the 2020 draft is stocked with elite PG/SG prospects ... Anthony Edwards, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion, LaMelo Ball etc

http://www.tankathon.com/big_board

I'm curious if the Magic might use AG as trade chip to grab a high pick in that draft. Would you guys trade Gordon for Washington's 2020 1st (let's say top 4 protected this year, and unprotected in 2021) ? Hypothetically this would be a 2020 draft day type deal not before this season.

VFX · Post #1566 » by **VFX** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:14 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Reading the trades and transactions board almost every other topic was a proposed trade for one of our players. Most of them involved AG. I guess our players are viewed to have value now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

More like people know Orlando’s roster is duplicative, doesn’t make sense, and they can see there are massive holes that need to be filled, hinged on redemption projects and role players.

Wizards fan here - Would I be correct in assuming that Orlando is looking for a dynamic guard to pair with Isaac+Vuc? Bc the 2020 draft is stocked with elite PG/SG prospects ... Anthony Edwards, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion, LaMelo Ball etc

http://www.tankathon.com/big_board

I'm curious if the Magic might use AG as trade chip to grab a high pick in that draft. Would you guys trade Gordon for Washington's 2020 1st (let's say top 4 protected this year, and unprotected in 2021) ? Hypothetically this would be a 2020 draft day type deal not before this season.

I think it would depend on how Orlando progresses this year with this current roster. Markelle Fultz is also a huge factor based on his timetable and if he is able to contribute at all. In the scenario Fultz is broken and Orlando regresses, with a healthy roster, I could totally see AG being an option for trading up / acquiring another draft asset.

Furinkazan · Post #1567 » by **Furinkazan** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:48 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Reading the trades and transactions board almost every other topic was a proposed trade for one of our players. Most of them involved AG. I guess our players are viewed to have value now.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

More like people know Orlando’s roster is duplicative, doesn’t make sense, and they can see there are massive holes that need to be filled, hinged on redemption projects and role players.

Wizards fan here - Would I be correct in assuming that Orlando is looking for a dynamic guard to pair with Isaac+Vuc? Bc the 2020 draft is stocked with elite PG/SG prospects ... Anthony Edwards, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion, LaMelo Ball etc

http://www.tankathon.com/big_board

I'm curious if the Magic might use AG as trade chip to grab a high pick in that draft. Would you guys trade Gordon for Washington's 2020 1st (let's say top 4 protected this year, and unprotected in 2021) ? Hypothetically this would be a 2020 draft day type deal not before this season.

The only dynamic guard we want to pair them with is Beal :lol:

woosah · Post #1568 » by **woosah** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:21 pm

Considering the main guys we want to run are vets, and how we want to grow the young ones slowly and the coach's rep of not relying on young guys i would not think we'd be looking to trade AG for a high pick. That's a Presti rebuilding move and i don't think we see ourselves as rebuilding.

pepe1991 · Post #1569 » by **pepe1991** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:07 pm

IMo Magic could use 2020 pick and some random player to improve guard/wing spot during this season if they are in playoff picture

Magic_Johnny12 · Post #1570 » by **Magic_Johnny12** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:34 pm

I know we tend to rag on Fournier a lot, and drool over McCollum but is he really 17 million dollars better than Fournier?! Good lawd.

Illmatic12 · Post #1571 » by **Illmatic12** » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:28 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
More like people know Orlando’s roster is duplicative, doesn’t make sense, and they can see there are massive holes that need to be filled, hinged on redemption projects and role players.

Wizards fan here - Would I be correct in assuming that Orlando is looking for a dynamic guard to pair with Isaac+Vuc? Bc the 2020 draft is stocked with elite PG/SG prospects ... Anthony Edwards, Cole Anthony, RJ Hampton, Theo Maledon, Nico Mannion, LaMelo Ball etc

http://www.tankathon.com/big_board

I'm curious if the Magic might use AG as trade chip to grab a high pick in that draft. Would you guys trade Gordon for Washington's 2020 1st (let's say top 4 protected this year, and unprotected in 2021) ? Hypothetically this would be a 2020 draft day type deal not before this season.

I think it would depend on how Orlando progresses this year with this current roster. Markelle Fultz is also a huge factor based on his timetable and if he is able to contribute at all. In the scenario Fultz is broken and Orlando regresses, with a healthy roster, I could totally see AG being an option for trading up / acquiring another draft asset.

True , this is assuming Fultz doesn’t break out as a starting caliber PG (which, as of now I’ll assume the status quo)

Just seems like the Magic could pivot from Gordon and get players who will help Isaac and their other guys develop

basketballRob · Post #1572 » by **basketballRob** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:10 am

We need to nickname someone Baba Yaga (the boogeyman) from the movie John Wick.

Shawn Marion was named Matrix after another Reeves movie.

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MagicStarwipe · Post #1573 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:47 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I know we tend to rag on Fournier a lot, and drool over McCollum but is he really 17 million dollars better than Fournier?! Good lawd.

Considering Evan isn't even worth his contract... then I'm going to say yes.

MoMM · Post #1574 » by **MoMM** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:09 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I know we tend to rag on Fournier a lot, and drool over McCollum but is he really 17 million dollars better than Fournier?! Good lawd.

Considering Evan isn't even worth his contract... then I'm going to say yes.

When guys like Harrison Barnes makes 21M/year, I wouldn't say that Fournier's contract is THAT bad.

MagicStarwipe · Post #1575 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:17 am

MoMM wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I know we tend to rag on Fournier a lot, and drool over McCollum but is he really 17 million dollars better than Fournier?! Good lawd.

Considering Evan isn't even worth his contract... then I'm going to say yes.

When guys like Harrison Barnes makes 21M/year, I wouldn't say that Fournier's contract is THAT bad.

It's not the worst contract in the league but he's still overpaid. Plus McCollum in the East is a perennial all-star.

Magic_Is_Here · Post #1576 » by **Magic_Is_Here** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:37 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
MoMM wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:Considering Evan isn't even worth his contract... then I'm going to say yes.

When guys like Harrison Barnes makes 21M/year, I wouldn't say that Fournier's contract is THAT bad.

It's not the worst contract in the league but he's still overpaid. Plus McCollum in the East is a perennial all-star.

I disagree with the East having Beal, Oladipo, Butler, and until recently Derozan. This also doesnt take into account the PGs in the East

pepe1991 · Post #1577 » by **pepe1991** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:28 am

If you look at contracts of other guards, Evan isn't overpayed.

List of some guards and their yearly salary

Chris Paul $40M
Westbrook $38M
Lowry $33M
McCullum $28M
Derozan $28M
Wiggins $27M
Parsons $26M
Jeff Teague $19M
Dragić $19M
Nick Batum $25M
Allen Crabbe $18M
Tim Hardaway $19M
Reggie Jackson $19M
Garry Harris $18M
Bazemore $19,5M
Tyler Johnson $19M

Even some complete fails like Brandon Knight, Dennis Schroder, MKG, Marcus Smart and Solomon Hill make over $13M a year.

You could argue Evan is A LITTLE bit overpayed, but when you look at other guards, his contract isn't really that bad,
Just imagine being team that pays Kent Bazemore $19M a year.

basketballRob · Post #1578 » by **basketballRob** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:47 am

Evan was a free agent in the right year last time.

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drsd · Post #1579 » by **drsd** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:50 am

rcklsscognition wrote:Was playing around with the CARMELO rankings for next season:

Vucevic: Borderline All-star, +6.3 WARP, comparison: Robert Parish
DJ: Offensive specialist, +2.6 WARP, comparison: Jason Williams
Ross: Rotation player, +2.3 WARP, comparison: Gerald Green
AG: Up-and-comer, 2.3 WARP, comparison: Tobias
Aminu: Rotation player, +1.2 WARP, comparison: Marvin Williams
Birch: Rotation player, +1.0 WARP, comparison: Dedmon
Isaac: Up-and-comer, +0.3 WARP, comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Fultz: Up-and-comer, -0.3 WARP, comparison: Monta Ellis
Iwundu: Defensive specialist, -0.5 WARP, comparison: James Ennis III
Fournier: Average starter, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Allan Houston
Bamba: Defensive specialist, -1.0 WARP, comparison: Darko

I added Carter-Williams, who is Tariq Abdul-Wahad (was just thinking about him yesterday looking at the heart-N-hustle roster). And Frazier is David Pope (who?)

So this is the CARMELO depth chart:
Jason Williams/Monta Ellis/Tariq Abdul-Wahad
Allan Houston/Gerald Green/David Pope
Tobias Harris/James Ennis III
Rasheed Wallace/Marvin Williams
Robert Parish/Darko Miličić/Dewayne Dedmon

Holy-crap, I love this team !

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drsd · Post #1580 » by **drsd** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:52 am

basketballRob wrote:Evan was a free agent in the right year last time.

A starting SG on a 17M contract is not an overpay by any calculation.

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