Official Frank Ntilikina Thread

[Clyde_Style]

Just trade him. They’re never going to give him a legitimate shot. One mistake and he won’t see the floor for another 5 games.

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

No he wasn't. Not being a chucker ≠ being a deer in headlights.

We all know the defense is there. The passing is solid. Why not flesh it out? We were the worst team in the NBA and our 2nd year lotto pick was getting DNP CDS. No one else had as short a leash as him. This is not some made up narrative. Can we please stop pretending like they've ever shown a strong commitment to his growth?

It's not a Fiz thing. It's a FO thing. They have never committed to him for whatever reason.

So I say trade him instead of wasting another year. Maybe you get some small assets back. Better than the inevitable where they let him walk away for nothing. Plus I want this kid to get a chance with a team who's willing to go through the growing pains. For him, we will not go through the growing pains.

I agree with you on how they've handled Frank. It has been botched badly.

It is a mistake to say they don't support youth based on how they handled Frank though when we're in the middle of a major youth movement.

For some reason Frank has been the one they chose to marginalize and it is a shame. It is not justifiable, but it is not the predominant theme of the franchise now. If it were they wouldn't have benched Deandre to play Mitch or given Knox the minutes he played. Frank simply was on their chitlist for some reason.

[dakomish23]

Just trade him. They’re never going to give him a legitimate shot. One mistake and he won’t see the floor for another 5 games.

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

It made no sense when they moved away from the THJ Frank Dotson Vonleh Mitch lineups.

107.7 ORTG
100.5 DRTG

[dakomish23]

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

No he wasn't. Not being a chucker ≠ being a deer in headlights.

We all know the defense is there. The passing is solid. Why not flesh it out? We were the worst team in the NBA and our 2nd year lotto pick was getting DNP CDS. No one else had as short a leash as him. This is not some made up narrative. Can we please stop pretending like they've ever shown a strong commitment to his growth?

It's not a Fiz thing. It's a FO thing. They have never committed to him for whatever reason.

So I say trade him instead of wasting another year. Maybe you get some small assets back. Better than the inevitable where they let him walk away for nothing. Plus I want this kid to get a chance with a team who's willing to go through the growing pains. For him, we will not go through the growing pains.

I agree with you on how they've handled Frank. It has been botched badly.

It is a mistake to say they don't support youth based on how they handled Frank though when we're in the middle of a major youth movement.

For some reason Frank has been the one they chose to marginalize and it is a shame. It is not justifiable, but it is not the predominant theme of the franchise now. If it were they wouldn't have benched Deandre to play Mitch or given Knox the minutes he played. Frank simply was on their chitlist for some reason.

That's why I said for him they won't go through the growing pains. They were more than happy to let Knox take his lumps.

[Clyde_Style]

No he wasn't. Not being a chucker ≠ being a deer in headlights.

We all know the defense is there. The passing is solid. Why not flesh it out? We were the worst team in the NBA and our 2nd year lotto pick was getting DNP CDS. No one else had as short a leash as him. This is not some made up narrative. Can we please stop pretending like they've ever shown a strong commitment to his growth?

It's not a Fiz thing. It's a FO thing. They have never committed to him for whatever reason.

So I say trade him instead of wasting another year. Maybe you get some small assets back. Better than the inevitable where they let him walk away for nothing. Plus I want this kid to get a chance with a team who's willing to go through the growing pains. For him, we will not go through the growing pains.

I agree with you on how they've handled Frank. It has been botched badly.

It is a mistake to say they don't support youth based on how they handled Frank though when we're in the middle of a major youth movement.

For some reason Frank has been the one they chose to marginalize and it is a shame. It is not justifiable, but it is not the predominant theme of the franchise now. If it were they wouldn't have benched Deandre to play Mitch or given Knox the minutes he played. Frank simply was on their chitlist for some reason.

That's why I said for him they won't go through the growing pains. They were more than happy to let Knox take his lumps.

I'm in full agreement on this. I mean I'm thankful they didn't resign Mudiay, but if they weren't going to then why the minutes? I didn't like Burke either and thought he was mostly a waste of space. I found the whole thing very frustrating, but I'm more forgiving than you are generally due to the overall direction of the franchise. Frank's handling is probably the biggest black eye on this current FO though

[iLLmatic860]

Just trade him. They’re never going to give him a legitimate shot. One mistake and he won’t see the floor for another 5 games.

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

[Clyde_Style]

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

The team generally performed better on BOTH offense and defense with Frank at the point. People have shown you the data.

Mudiay did not improve the team even if he was more aggressive than Frank.

[jvsimonetti0514]

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

The team generally performed better on BOTH offense and defense with Frank at the point. People have shown you the data.

Mudiay did not improve the team even if he was more aggressive than Frank.

I feel like those numbers need some context because I don't think them alone tells the whole picture on why that line up was so successful. I know it has a fairly large sample size but IIRC that line up was used a lot early in the season when both Vonleh and THJR were playing way above the back of their basketball cards. I'm pretty sure Timmy was averaging 26 ppg at one point this season and initiating the offense. Like if that line up was used in January, I'm pretty confident those offensive numbers wouldn't be as high.

[Clyde_Style]

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

The team generally performed better on BOTH offense and defense with Frank at the point. People have shown you the data.

Mudiay did not improve the team even if he was more aggressive than Frank.

I feel like those numbers need some context because I don't think them alone tells the whole picture on why that line up was so successful. I know it has a fairly large sample size but IIRC that line up was used a lot early in the season when both Vonleh and THJR were playing way above the back of their basketball cards. I'm pretty sure Timmy was averaging 26 ppg at one point this season and initiating the offense. Like if that line up was used in January, I'm pretty confident those offensive numbers wouldn't be as high.

It was happening during his rookie season as well though

The larger point is the net effect of Frank at the point was while he was not highly creative nor aggressive, he ran plays, did the PnR fairly well and as a result other players produced more with him at PG than other players. When you add in his defense, the overall +/- for the team was generally higher with Frank on the floor.

This is why he needed to work through whatever issues he has on offense either as a scorer himself or as a facilitator who could do more as a passer. He was not hurting the team, he was already helping the team and in that context he was worth giving time to so he could grow.

The comments that he was given a shot is neither true nor false. Other players were allowed to play through bad stretches while Frank was not. And Frank was benched by both Jeff and Fiz after some of his best performances which was BS and people wonder why his confidence was shaken.

Long story short, the logic behind handling Frank was not consistent with how the rest of the roster was handled and that is wrong.

[GONYK]

he struggled with injuries during Fiz’s tenure so can we please stop with this “he was never given a real shot” and he was playing like a deer in headlights on offense. I wouldve benched him too.

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

What did Fiz do with Mudiay except play him heavy minutes, regardless of offensive inefficiency and defensive incompetence?

[iLLmatic860]

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

The team generally performed better on BOTH offense and defense with Frank at the point. People have shown you the data.

Mudiay did not improve the team even if he was more aggressive than Frank.

Say what you want but RIGHT NOW Mudiay is better than Frank.


BUT
Franks Potential >>>>>mudiay Potential

[iLLmatic860]

Why? He was part of our most productive lineup and a top 10 defense in the league.

Especially when the answer is probably more reps, and the only alternative is Mudiay, who you had no plans of retaining.

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

What did Fiz do with Mudiay except play him heavy minutes, regardless of offensive inefficiency and defensive incompetence?

Hes giving players opportunities that other teams arent giving

Players see that ****. Thats why I think Randle and others was so willing to come here. Yes they arent superstars but we made huge upgrades from last season.

Yes other up and coming teams are doing that too but they not playing in a market like NYC.


Maybe im being too optimistic but imp thats just a sign of things to come.

[GONYK]

Muiday was better than Frank on offense lol

Frank is supposed to be a Point guard.

Frank got his opportunity and EARNED a starting spot but he got injured

So again stop with this “he wasnt given a fair chance”

Hes done absolutely nothing.

And no im not a Frank hater. Im honestly high on Frank but thats all about what he can become. He def have some all nba defense potential in the future.

What Fiz did with Muiday was great. Its something that wont be truly appreciated until we land our big fish (Big IF I know lol) He gave him a fair and honest chance and now he and some other ex Knicks have nothing but good things to say about NYK

This is how you build your reputation up and get players to want to play for your organization.

What did Fiz do with Mudiay except play him heavy minutes, regardless of offensive inefficiency and defensive incompetence?

Hes giving players opportunities that other teams arent giving

Players see that ****. Thats why I think Randle and others was so willing to come here. Yes they arent superstars but we made huge upgrades from last season.

Yes other up and coming teams are doing that too but they not playing in a market like NYC.


Maybe im being too optimistic but imp thats just a sign of things to come.

We also paid them way above their market value

[iLLmatic860]

What did Fiz do with Mudiay except play him heavy minutes, regardless of offensive inefficiency and defensive incompetence?

Hes giving players opportunities that other teams arent giving

Players see that ****. Thats why I think Randle and others was so willing to come here. Yes they arent superstars but we made huge upgrades from last season.

Yes other up and coming teams are doing that too but they not playing in a market like NYC.


Maybe im being too optimistic but imp thats just a sign of things to come.

We also paid them way above their market value

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

[Stannis]

Hes giving players opportunities that other teams arent giving

Players see that ****. Thats why I think Randle and others was so willing to come here. Yes they arent superstars but we made huge upgrades from last season.

Yes other up and coming teams are doing that too but they not playing in a market like NYC.


Maybe im being too optimistic but imp thats just a sign of things to come.

We also paid them way above their market value

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

[GONYK]

We also paid them way above their market value

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

Yup, that was my point. Thanks.

And no, you don't have to spend all your cap

[jvsimonetti0514]

The team generally performed better on BOTH offense and defense with Frank at the point. People have shown you the data.

Mudiay did not improve the team even if he was more aggressive than Frank.

I feel like those numbers need some context because I don't think them alone tells the whole picture on why that line up was so successful. I know it has a fairly large sample size but IIRC that line up was used a lot early in the season when both Vonleh and THJR were playing way above the back of their basketball cards. I'm pretty sure Timmy was averaging 26 ppg at one point this season and initiating the offense. Like if that line up was used in January, I'm pretty confident those offensive numbers wouldn't be as high.

It was happening during his rookie season as well though

The larger point is the net effect of Frank at the point was while he was not highly creative nor aggressive, he ran plays, did the PnR fairly well and as a result other players produced more with him at PG than other players. When you add in his defense, the overall +/- for the team was generally higher with Frank on the floor.

This is why he needed to work through whatever issues he has on offense either as a scorer himself or as a facilitator who could do more as a passer. He was not hurting the team, he was already helping the team and in that context he was worth giving time to so he could grow.

The comments that he was given a shot is neither true nor false. Other players were allowed to play through bad stretches while Frank was not. And Frank was benched by both Jeff and Fiz after some of his best performances which was BS and people wonder why his confidence was shaken.

Long story short, the logic behind handling Frank was not consistent with how the rest of the roster was handled and that is wrong.

I don't necessarily disagree about how Frank has been handled. I mean he's going to always have impact because he's a good defender and I don't think they should have gone away from that line up. I know that eventually having someone on the floor shoot so poorly like him is going to have a negative effect.

I'm just calling into question the use of that line up as proof as Frank as our best point guard because of how poorly his individual stats are and how the rest of the line up was playing at the time. Realistically how much of that offensive rating was Frank's doing? I bet if Frank doesn't miss half the year that line up wouldn't still have had a positive net rating.

[iLLmatic860]

We also paid them way above their market value

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

That certainly helped.

But players like Randle and BP also came for the opportunity. If he balls out in NY, he will finnally get the respect and recognition he deserves

And im not even including all the extra money they can make from endorsements in NY.

[Stannis]

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

That certainly helped.

But players like Randle and BP also came for the opportunity. If he balls out in NY, he will finnally get the respect and recognition he deserves

And im not even including all the extra money they can make from endorsements in NY.

I see that. It's probably both, but I think it leans towards the money.

I always hear about money from endorsements in NY, but is there any actual evidence that players in NY get more from endorsements? The NBA is so global now. Does being in NY really make you that much more money? Of course it did years ago, but now I don't think it matters as much.

I feel like it may make you more, but could cost you more too (housing, property, night life, bad investments).

[GONYK]

Short term deals. We are supposed to spend all our cap. Nba rules

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

That certainly helped.

But players like Randle and BP also came for the opportunity. If he balls out in NY, he will finnally get the respect and recognition he deserves

And im not even including all the extra money they can make from endorsements in NY.

Do you think they wouldn't have taken the inflated paycheck and the opportunity of a big market if Fiz didn't force-feed minutes to Mudiay?

[god shammgod]

You don't have to spend all the cap, do you? You just get fined if you don't.

Also, I think GONYK was saying "Randle and others" came here because they got above market value, not because Fix was going to work with them and give them minutes.

That certainly helped.

But players like Randle and BP also came for the opportunity. If he balls out in NY, he will finnally get the respect and recognition he deserves

And im not even including all the extra money they can make from endorsements in NY.

Do you think they wouldn't have taken the inflated paycheck and the opportunity of a big market if Fiz didn't force-feed minutes to Mudiay?

it probably depends on the individual. randle was probably promised a starting spot and big minutes because other teams were interested. taj gibson not so much.