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Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 242 preview how Poirier might beat Khabib

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#181 » by j4remi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:15 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:He cleaned Edgar's clock to get that fight against Max. As Brian said at the time, he threw that uppercut against Frankie "with bad intent." :lol:

So, yeah, I was shocked too. Seems that Frankie faired much better against Max. Duh. lol


It's a good example of MMA math working so strangely. Ortega didn't have to worry about the takedown and wanted to invite those inside exchanges because of his clinch work; so he was able to land a murder blow without half the boxing of Max. But then he got in with Max and that boxing got exposed. And then Max had to fight a much more economical and safe fight with Frankie by comparison.

It's a trip for sure!

Sidenote: This week we get Robbie vs Colby and a few interesting names in the mix. Colby is fighting for his title shot, otherwise Masvidal probably gets the next shot at Usman.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#182 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:51 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:He cleaned Edgar's clock to get that fight against Max. As Brian said at the time, he threw that uppercut against Frankie "with bad intent." :lol:

So, yeah, I was shocked too. Seems that Frankie faired much better against Max. Duh. lol


It's a good example of MMA math working so strangely. Ortega didn't have to worry about the takedown and wanted to invite those inside exchanges because of his clinch work; so he was able to land a murder blow without half the boxing of Max. But then he got in with Max and that boxing got exposed. And then Max had to fight a much more economical and safe fight with Frankie by comparison.

It's a trip for sure!

Sidenote: This week we get Robbie vs Colby and a few interesting names in the mix. Colby is fighting for his title shot, otherwise Masvidal probably gets the next shot at Usman.


I want to see Robbie put a beating on Colby. Any chance of that happening?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#183 » by j4remi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:53 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:I want to see Robbie put a beating on Colby. Any chance of that happening?


Absolutely. Askren loss notwithstanding, he's had some really strong performances against guys who build their striking off of takedown threats. He put the beats on Hendricks and Rory both, although Colby's got a couple of major differences. Volume is the big one, Colby throws a lot and forces mistakes...that said, volume is susceptible to power counters and that's usually how Robbie responds. The other aspect is cardio. Robbie's got good cardio but Colby's pace and press put him among the best in the UFC. I'd say Rory was a better striker, Johnny was a better wrestler and neither of those guys could get Robbie down or outstrike him. Colby is the in-between but with better cardio, which will be key if he wants to survive.

Honestly, I've seen Lawler listed as a 2-1 dog and if I can get that off draftkings I'll probably leap at it (I just never bet before weigh-ins any more so we'll have to see).
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#184 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:01 pm

j4remi wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:I want to see Robbie put a beating on Colby. Any chance of that happening?


Absolutely. Askren loss notwithstanding, he's had some really strong performances against guys who build their striking off of takedown threats. He put the beats on Hendricks and Rory both, although Colby's got a couple of major differences. Volume is the big one, Colby throws a lot and forces mistakes...that said, volume is susceptible to power counters and that's usually how Robbie responds. The other aspect is cardio. Robbie's got good cardio but Colby's pace and press put him among the best in the UFC. I'd say Rory was a better striker, Johnny was a better wrestler and neither of those guys could get Robbie down or outstrike him. Colby is the in-between but with better cardio, which will be key if he wants to survive.

Honestly, I've seen Lawler listed as a 2-1 dog and if I can get that off draftkings I'll probably leap at it (I just never bet before weigh-ins any more so we'll have to see).


That's all good to know. :D

Btw, what fight is that in your avi? That's slick.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#185 » by j4remi » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:12 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
That's all good to know. :D

Btw, what fight is that in your avi? That's slick.


I put a bit more about Scott Smith a couple of pages back but this is the main info:
That's my favorite come from behind ever, Scott Smith vs Pete Sell. They were TUF contestants who lost but got on the finale undecard and they fought like a contract was on the line. The body shot really did fold him and he had one chance to connect and survive. After the fight, he basically keeled over in joyous agony that was just epic.

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PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#186 » by j4remi » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:25 pm

Read on Twitter


I get annoyed at his podcast at times, but Rogan is a really good dude and a damned blessing for the sport.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#188 » by j4remi » Fri Aug 2, 2019 10:54 pm



That fight was absolute flames!!! Rodtang is all pressure and Haggerty has a ton of power. The second round they were just throwing bombs at each other and then in-fighting. The whole main One card this morning was really next level. I’d gone in skeptical but wow! DJ and Eddie both fought dudes that were probably too big for them and just overcame it. DJ outwrestled a bugger stronger guy. Eddie got hurt and mounted a comeback in vintage fashion. Then you had Rodtang and Haggerty put on a great fight. I missed Martin Nguyen though which is too bad bc he’s a highlight reel too.

The One app is free and so are the fights but since it’s based in Singapore (the Philippines this morning actually), the fights are always at random hours. It’s had some great cards though and they are pumping money into quality fighters and production. They do have shady weigh in and drug testing practices but nothing proven, matter of fact, fighters tend to praise the hell outta them (Ben askren included).
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#189 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:16 am

j4remi wrote:


That fight was absolute flames!!! Rodtang is all pressure and Haggerty has a ton of power. The second round they were just throwing bombs at each other and then in-fighting. The whole main One card this morning was really next level. I’d gone in skeptical but wow! DJ and Eddie both fought dudes that were probably too big for them and just overcame it. DJ outwrestled a bugger stronger guy. Eddie got hurt and mounted a comeback in vintage fashion. Then you had Rodtang and Haggerty put on a great fight. I missed Martin Nguyen though which is too bad bc he’s a highlight reel too.

The One app is free and so are the fights but since it’s based in Singapore (the Philippines this morning actually), the fights are always at random hours. It’s had some great cards though and they are pumping money into quality fighters and production. They do have shady weigh in and drug testing practices but nothing proven, matter of fact, fighters tend to praise the hell outta them (Ben askren included).


I saw that Eddie Alverez had a nice comeback win/submission from a RNC.

If those ropes were there on front kick, he would've landed right on his back. :lol: Never saw anything like that. Where can you watch the ONE fights?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#190 » by j4remi » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:52 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
I saw that Eddie Alverez had a nice comeback win/submission from a RNC.

If those ropes were there on front kick, he would've landed right on his back. :lol: Never saw anything like that. Where can you watch the ONE fights?


They show on Bleacher Report Live. Dawn of Heroes is the one from yesterday, some really good fights.

https://live.bleacherreport.com/mixed-martial-arts/one-championship/56
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#191 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:40 pm

Fcking Covington got round 1
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#192 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:42 pm

Lawlor has to move more, no?
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#193 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:58 pm

Covington hits like a 14 year old girl
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#194 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:04 pm

Fck this freak.

Please tell me Usman, Masvidal, Edwards, Woodley, or Askren will fck this kid up.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#196 » by j4remi » Mon Aug 5, 2019 12:57 pm

One had the best MMA event of the weekend by a mile. I can't stand watching pillow hands Covington throw half assed jabs on his back step and hug anyone who engages. I did try to make some notes about where he looked best and where he looked really susceptible.

1) He's able to throw his volume on the retreat but there was no juice on anything. It was a lot of jabs with no weight behind them. Lawler didn't have the footwork to trap him at the cage but that footwork would be tremendous.

2) His strength is good not great. He was vastly better wrestling with Robbie, but didn't have the strength to keep him there or force dominant positions. He had to use tricks to get better position instead and Robbie never even bothered hand fighting when Colby got his back and looked for chokes and cranks (basically, Ben Askren definitely has better squeeze imo)

3) On the strength, the body kick he deployed was really good. It was his best strike in terms of connecting and having some actual power. It was also a good way to mix away from jabs and the pitter pat (as Rashad described it in post fight) striking.

4) Agility was impressive in close for Colby and his cardio is world class. We haven't seen any of Usman, Askren or Colby tire out; but I'd say that's the most work we've seen any of them do in a single fight (although part of that comes back to the strength issue).

5) The one thing I want to see is how Colby responds to body work. Robbie did a lot of head movement and stalking but head hunted for counters when he was mostly out of position with Colby angling away. In the FIFTH round, Robbie finally planted a hook and later on a body jab that both found the mark. I think to score while you back Covington up, body work will help a LOT and it could slow down his insane volume if you dedicate early rounds to it.

So who beats him? Hard to say but I'd bet heavy on Usman who is a stronger version of Colby. That said, the speed and agility edge is Colby's so it's not a guarantee. Woodley might be so strong that he'd stop Colby's takedowns but the habitual fighting along the cage is not a good sign. Askren is the most intriguing to me, I think he's the better wrestler but his striking is much worse. Edwards is the wild card, Usman owned him but he's been lights out since and may have learned from it. Then Masvidal is another interesting one because they're familiar with each other and Masvidal has as big an edge striking as Colby has wrestling. I'd honestly pay for that one...edge to Colby but not by much. And my wild card...I think Stephen Wonderboy Thompson would beat Colby down...call it a feeling. Wonderboy is great with lateral movement and Colby's volume leaves him open to counters. Wonderboy can strike moving backwards like no one else in the division and that should create openings.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#197 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Aug 5, 2019 5:51 pm

j4remi wrote:One had the best MMA event of the weekend by a mile. I can't stand watching pillow hands Covington throw half assed jabs on his back step and hug anyone who engages. I did try to make some notes about where he looked best and where he looked really susceptible.

1) He's able to throw his volume on the retreat but there was no juice on anything. It was a lot of jabs with no weight behind them. Lawler didn't have the footwork to trap him at the cage but that footwork would be tremendous.

2) His strength is good not great. He was vastly better wrestling with Robbie, but didn't have the strength to keep him there or force dominant positions. He had to use tricks to get better position instead and Robbie never even bothered hand fighting when Colby got his back and looked for chokes and cranks (basically, Ben Askren definitely has better squeeze imo)

3) On the strength, the body kick he deployed was really good. It was his best strike in terms of connecting and having some actual power. It was also a good way to mix away from jabs and the pitter pat (as Rashad described it in post fight) striking.

4) Agility was impressive in close for Colby and his cardio is world class. We haven't seen any of Usman, Askren or Colby tire out; but I'd say that's the most work we've seen any of them do in a single fight (although part of that comes back to the strength issue).

5) The one thing I want to see is how Colby responds to body work. Robbie did a lot of head movement and stalking but head hunted for counters when he was mostly out of position with Colby angling away. In the FIFTH round, Robbie finally planted a hook and later on a body jab that both found the mark. I think to score while you back Covington up, body work will help a LOT and it could slow down his insane volume if you dedicate early rounds to it.

So who beats him? Hard to say but I'd bet heavy on Usman who is a stronger version of Colby. That said, the speed and agility edge is Colby's so it's not a guarantee. Woodley might be so strong that he'd stop Colby's takedowns but the habitual fighting along the cage is not a good sign. Askren is the most intriguing to me, I think he's the better wrestler but his striking is much worse. Edwards is the wild card, Usman owned him but he's been lights out since and may have learned from it. Then Masvidal is another interesting one because they're familiar with each other and Masvidal has as big an edge striking as Colby has wrestling. I'd honestly pay for that one...edge to Colby but not by much. And my wild card...I think Stephen Wonderboy Thompson would beat Colby down...call it a feeling. Wonderboy is great with lateral movement and Colby's volume leaves him open to counters. Wonderboy can strike moving backwards like no one else in the division and that should create openings.


Excellent analysis. I was thinking about Wonderboy myself. Glad to see that you're intrigued as well.
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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#198 » by j4remi » Tue Aug 6, 2019 12:11 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Excellent analysis. I was thinking about Wonderboy myself. Glad to see that you're intrigued as well.


Thanks fam, I'm definitely interested in a Wonderboy vs one of these pressure wrestlers to get a good idea of what he'd do with all three (Askren, Covington, Usman for clarity's sake). He's done really well with guys that had quality wrestling before, but they've all been guys that are more liable to stand up with an opponent (MacDonald, Hendricks, Whitaker). Woodley took him down and beat him but that was with counters and making Wonderboy lead the dance. I don't think Covington, Usman or Askren has shown enough for me to trust them as a counter striker since they all thrive on volume and/or pressure. They might be able to just dive inside and control things once they get a grip of him but I need to see that happen. Wonderboy is great at intercepting guys and getting away from them.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#199 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:39 pm

Just saw this. I had no idea. I just love this guy. DC is my man.

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Re: Official MMA discussion thread pt 2: UFC 239 recap card of the year Jones pushed to brink 

Post#200 » by j4remi » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:26 pm

So this weekend's card was a little light. Cyril Gane is a good prospect, Valentina needs a real challenger and Luque vs Perry was the fight of the weekend. If you haven't seen the aftermath, let's just wish Mike Perry's nose a full recovery but it was looking Rory MacDonald or Andre Arlovski bad. Great fight amid mostly meh stuff in my book. Oh yeah, Oezdemir had a really nice performance against Ilir Latifi. Overwhelmed and slept him without slowing down much into the second which is a good sign for his cardio improving.

Now this Saturday though....that card is fire.
DC vs Stipe 2
Pettis vs Diaz
Romero vs Costa

all fire, I could go in on each match-up when time permits. Then the next two are prospects vs serious vets.
Sodiq Yusuff 9-1 vs Gabriel Benitez 21-6 (tough out for everyone and a valid top 15 gatekeeper type of vet)
Ian Heinisch 13-1 vs Derek Brunson 19-7 (Heinisch is new to the UFC but beat Antonio Carlos Jr pretty soundly last time out)

On the prelim, perpetually underrated Raphael Assuncao gets Cory Sandhagen. Perpetually angry Drakkar Klose has a test against Giagos. And we finally get to see Devonte Smith tested by a serious threat in Clay Collard. Smith has 10 wins, all finishes with only one of his last 6 fights making it past the first round (that includes two UFC fights and a Contender Series bout btw).
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

Ex A. Kaba J. Obiesie, Gafford

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