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Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers

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Damkac
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#21 » by Damkac » Sun Aug 4, 2019 8:07 am

Wilber85 wrote:Warren is trash. He will play 60 games at most and avg 16 ppg for your team with no defense . Can’t wait to shut up all the suns fans who thought this dude avg 18 ppg on a 19 win team was good

Warren being All-Star in 2020 confirmed.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#22 » by Saberestar » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:16 am

ZER0 wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:
ZER0 wrote:Just don't give him away with a 2nd pick. Or your organization will be crucified for doing so.


fix'd


Wow, still butthurt I see. Put a gun to my head and have me choose between Warren or Rubio, and I choose Rubio every single time.

The Suns chose Oubre over Warren. We could have signed Rubio with Warren on the roster, but in that case we needed to say bye to Oubre.

Personally I think that Warren is better than Oubre. $35M / 3 years, great contract being in his prime. But James Jones preferred Oubre.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#23 » by Saberestar » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:54 am

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?

No.
He has always had a great touch...but he was focused on the mid range and around the rim because he is great and efficient on those areas effortless.
With the new trending in the league to shot threes he adapted his game (like Brook Lopez, for example). He worked all last summer just on that (he is like a cyborg working in his game). If defenses will pressure him at the 3p line because his new reputation he will score going to the rim next season.

Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?

Yes, I think so. He can average in his prime more than 20 ppg efficiently.

People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?

He is an average defender. He is better defending perimeter players because he doesn't like to bang inside. He is not tough on defense. He has good hands to create some steals and deflections. He is not a good rebounder on defense but he has a nack for offensive rebounds.

He is not "smart" on defense/offense because he never flops or exaggerate anything, so refs usually don't buy his actions. He just plays ball. He sometimes explodes and get technicals because of that.

Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?

Yes, he is an SF. He can play some minutes here or there at SG or PF.

My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?

I think he can be pretty good as an starting SF or as a sixth man. Brogdon/Oladipo/Warren/Sabonis/Turner looks really good to me with Lamb as a sixth man.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#24 » by Wilber85 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:26 pm

Damkac wrote:
Wilber85 wrote:Warren is trash. He will play 60 games at most and avg 16 ppg for your team with no defense . Can’t wait to shut up all the suns fans who thought this dude avg 18 ppg on a 19 win team was good

Warren being All-Star in 2020 confirmed.


I will bet you $1000 he wont be an all star, you talk smack but never will back it up man!

This is your chance
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#25 » by Damkac » Sun Aug 4, 2019 9:53 pm

At what point will you understand that nobody is interested in your bets?
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#26 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 1:46 am

8305 wrote:Hoping you can tell me more about TJ
Pacers have gotten a lot of mileage from players found in what I'll call the secondary market. Underappreciated guys who when given a little different opportunity can be more than what they've shown to date. I'd barely heard of Bojan Bogdonovich when we got him, was surprised when we anointed him the starting SF in the summer of of 2017. Replacing Bojan is the opportunity being presented to TJ.

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly?
Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team?
People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ?
Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought?
My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role?

Thanks for your input.

I'm a TJ fan. I don't think he's all that but for what he is, he's great at being that and that's an efficient scoring wing with a 3PT shot at about $12m a year. I like Bojan slightly more as a player because he's a bit more efficient, marginally more versatile and healthier but I think TJ has more value when taking salaries into consideration ($18.2m vs $11.7m).

Was his improved shooting last year an anomaly? Tough to say but I would say it's not. He really put in a ton of work to rework that shot and he was shooting at respectable volumes to confirm to me that it isn't a fluke. With a better system, I think it could be replicated.
Does he have it in him to be a 2nd scoring option on a good team? I don't see him as a 2nd option on a good team. I think his ceiling is a 3rd option/6th man on a good team. I don't think he's versatile enough offensively as he's not a great passer, doesn't seem to draw a ton of fouls and isn't a reliable high level shot creator. I think there's a ceiling for your team if he's relied on as a 2nd option
People said Bogdonovich couldn't guard anyone when we got him. Ultimately he turned into a pretty solid defender. Any potential for this with TJ? He's shown some flashes but we were a horrific defensive team basically the entire time he was with the Suns so it's hard to say what a good system with competent defensive players on the team could do for his D. I'm not high on it though, he just seems a bit too much of a tweener defensively. Not big enough to guard 4's consistently and not long or quick enough to defend wings either.
Word out of the Pacer organization is they see TJ strictly as a 3, your thought? That's probably where he should be.
My limited knowledge of Tj is that his game screams 6th man, primary off the bench scorer. Is this his highest and best use? Could he be elite in this role? That's where I see him. I think his ceiling is a 3rd option scorer on a good team but that would be his absolute ceiling and he would need to get his passing to a non-black hole level and he'll need to show his shooting wasn't a fluke. But I do think as a 6th man, he could be perennial contender for 6MOY, essentially now so that would be the best use of him. At least until he's shown he can become more versatile offensively.
alamin330 wrote:This draft reminds me of the 2003 draft.
Lebron - Zion, Barrett like Melo, wade like Culver, garland like tj ford, hunter like bosh, white like Barbosa, Clarke like David West. I think this draft is actually going to be deeper though
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#27 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Aug 5, 2019 4:31 am

Saberestar wrote:
ZER0 wrote:
Moochthemonkey wrote:
fix'd


Wow, still butthurt I see. Put a gun to my head and have me choose between Warren or Rubio, and I choose Rubio every single time.

The Suns chose Oubre over Warren. We could have signed Rubio with Warren on the roster, but in that case we needed to say bye to Oubre.

Personally I think that Warren is better than Oubre. $35M / 3 years, great contract being in his prime. But James Jones preferred Oubre.
This. I'm not sure why people seem to over complicate this situation. It was Warren or Oubre. Cap and roster fit/ playing time wasnt going to work having both. Personally I prefer oubre on his 2 year deal but I understand why some would have preferred Warren. Time will tell if Jones made the right choice.

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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#28 » by Wilber85 » Mon Aug 5, 2019 11:26 am

Damkac wrote:At what point will you understand that nobody is interested in your bets?


Because y’all have no money, and live with mommy . Y’all talk so much crap about the team you like ? Before even giving your team a chance .

If y’all are experts then why aren’t you trying to get involved with this as a career ?
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#29 » by Frank Lee » Mon Aug 5, 2019 3:23 pm

I dont care so much about the way we got to this current roster. A lot of (almost all) of the negative poo-pooing, centers around the method and not the result. TJ was sacrificed on the leger sheet in order to obtain Saric and Baynes without jeopardizing the ability to pony up for a valid PG. It was vital to be able to act promptly in free agency.

ESSENTIALLY, we swapped out Warren, Jackson, and Holmes for Saric, Baynes, and Rubio. (25.2 mil vs 22.7 mil) ... and then added Oubre, which/who had no real cap restrictions to resign. (no real revelation there eh?)

Seems like a plus move to me.

And for the lovers of second round picks.... really just look at the success history of not only second rounders but of the 10-30 selections in the first round as well. The rookie talent pool places so much value on potential than actual production and play. Its the one and done syndrome thats been plaguing the league/draft. Hopefully in a few years, the G League will begin providing a more accurate portrayal of talent, much like the euro league has been doing. There is a very limited # of roster spots open in the league, with the bulk of young players (and some aging vets) on the out looking in. These youngsters are having to prove their worth in non NBA arenas. The guaranteed contracts given to the first rounders leaves a lot of teams carrying that dead salary weight of dudes who just aren't ready to contribute. At least now, there is another venue (gLeague) where these kids can earn a living, while honing their skills. In time, I imagine we'll start seeing many more high schoolers opting for the pay check over the college experience. Its called work... on the job experience... and it bypasses the manipulative profit driven control of the NCAA.

Good luck to TJ though. Always have been a supporter, and hope he gets minutes at his true SF position (as he is not a PF). Fact remains obvious, the FO opted to invest in Oubre and Bridges to get the bulk of our SF minutes.
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#30 » by grumpysaddle » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:01 am

Wilber85 wrote:
Damkac wrote:At what point will you understand that nobody is interested in your bets?


Because y’all have no money, and live with mommy . Y’all talk so much crap about the team you like ? Before even giving your team a chance .

If y’all are experts then why aren’t you trying to get involved with this as a career ?

Not around much in the off-season, but i see that wilber is still annoying AF
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#31 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Aug 6, 2019 7:44 am

Man I think TJ could really tear it up next year in the B League. When I look at the Pacers pre-ASB lineup of Brogdon-Lamb-Warren-Turner-Sabonis, I see two teams. The one that plays in the east is a playoff contender before Oladipo gets on board. Warren is likely their leading scorer before Dipo returns, with Lamb heading to the bench when he does. I'll be glad when TJ gets the due I think is likely coming next season. He's a great player who deserves success.

In the west? Psssh man that lineup ain't likely to cut it. People think Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Saric-Ayton will win 30 games next season. It's the A League out here. No Wizards, Hawks, Hornets, Knicks or Cavs to pick on. Just Russell and James and LeBron and Anthony and Steph and Klay and DeRozan and Aldridge and Jokic and Murray and Kawhi and Paul and Jrue and Zion and Luka and Kristaps and Damian and CJ and De'Aaron and Buddy and Gobert and Donovan and Chris and Steven and Karl-Anthony and his bad self. But hey, at least we'll have Memphis to push around.

The drastic and persistent disparity between the conferences is an embarrassment to the NBA. The trend of population shifting from northeast to southwest has put several teams in the EC at a financial disadvantage, and several teams in its best markets (DC, NYC, CHI) have been mismanaged (and in NYC's case, tragically so). Thank goodness Durant went to BKN so at least one major market can watch quality basketball... in 2020-2021!

/rant
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Re: Thoughts on TJ Warren for the Pacers 

Post#32 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 6, 2019 2:19 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Man I think TJ could really tear it up next year in the B League. When I look at the Pacers pre-ASB lineup of Brogdon-Lamb-Warren-Turner-Sabonis, I see two teams. The one that plays in the east is a playoff contender before Oladipo gets on board. Warren is likely their leading scorer before Dipo returns, with Lamb heading to the bench when he does. I'll be glad when TJ gets the due I think is likely coming next season. He's a great player who deserves success.

In the west? Psssh man that lineup ain't likely to cut it. People think Rubio-Booker-Oubre-Saric-Ayton will win 30 games next season. It's the A League out here. No Wizards, Hawks, Hornets, Knicks or Cavs to pick on. Just Russell and James and LeBron and Anthony and Steph and Klay and DeRozan and Aldridge and Jokic and Murray and Kawhi and Paul and Jrue and Zion and Luka and Kristaps and Damian and CJ and De'Aaron and Buddy and Gobert and Donovan and Chris and Steven and Karl-Anthony and his bad self. But hey, at least we'll have Memphis to push around.

The drastic and persistent disparity between the conferences is an embarrassment to the NBA. The trend of population shifting from northeast to southwest has put several teams in the EC at a financial disadvantage, and several teams in its best markets (DC, NYC, CHI) have been mismanaged (and in NYC's case, tragically so). Thank goodness Durant went to BKN so at least one major market can watch quality basketball... in 2020-2021!

/rant


I was thinking there is a good chance he is the leading scorer prior to Dipo's return too. People talk about him not being a 2nd option on a good team. I think of options as scoring options, and I think in that capacity, he could be a top option, particularly if he maintains his 3pt% (or close to it) and gets his 2pt% back up to norms (probable). Could be over 60% TS%.

They will be right in the mix after Sixers/Bucks, especially once Dipo returns (if he is healthy). Dipo's health and effectiveness will be key once they get back.

I think in the west they would be like a Portland level team....very consistently good, but if all the top teams are on their game, they would be lower tier playoff team, or fighting for spot. That being said, I always underestimate Portland and they end up like the 3 seed.

Sabonis is extremely efficient. Turner only improving. Lamb improving. Brogdon very solid. They ALMOST knocked off the Cavs with LeBron two years ago, and last year were on fire before Dipo went down. Like I said, his health is key. But I think Brogdon is a big upgrade from Collison/Joseph, and Lamb is a very nice addition. TJ is not quite what Bojan was, but better at the same age, so should progress under Nate, who is a VERY good coach. They should be pretty tough. Of course more tough teams in the east now with Miami and Brooklyn, though the Nets won't be at the top until KD gets back (but Kyrie and a healthy LeVert will help), and Miami with Butler (though Josh Richardson is pretty underrated and a big loss, so it will be interesting to see how much better they are with Butler).

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